Europe on the Brink of Takeover?

Islamism, Culture, Terror, and Paris Hilton

from JoeUser Forums

            Mark Steyn has posited that is rapidly approaching (and perhaps has even passed) a demographic point of no return. Dharma’s recent article regarding the extermination of Christian references during the Christmas season in seems to re-enforce the point. I ask you here at JU and beyond the walls of this blog to answer these questions: Can reverse the trend or is it already too late? Will be forced to don the hijab and accept their status as Dhimmi under the approaching New Caliphate? Is it possible that this could force a return to European fascism and nationalism as a counter?

            For my part I think it is far too late for to turn the demographic tide by simply having more kids. The cultural revolution of the Zero Population Growth advocates has come to pass and there is no likely return to the reproductive habits of earlier centuries. I believe that it is also too late for to resort to a resurgent fascist movement as a means of cultural survival as Ralph Peters “rebuttal” to Steyn would suggest. The population simply isn’t there and neither is the will to fight. The Muslims of Europe simply seem to want it more. There will be no rising tide of old school European nationalism simply because there are not enough young non-Muslim militants for it to work. You can’t deport people en masse without a brutal and ideologically engaged military with enough numbers to combat their opposites in the deportee community.

            My prediction is that will fall to Islamism with hardly a whimper as long as the Muslims don’t try and rush things with further terror attacks. They will simply breed their way into power. More kids mean more votes and I don’t care how educated post-schismatic bishops think they are :

“"Episcopalians aren't interested in replenishing their ranks by having children?"

"No," agreed Bishop Kate. "It's probably the opposite. We encourage people to pay attention to the stewardship of the earth and not use more than their portion." (How very Paris Hilton of her - GW)

            The fact is that her single grand kid gets one vote when they reach the age of majority and this woman’s 42 grandkids get 42:

"We are really happy," her son Zuheir told Agence France-Presse. "She told us last night that she would do a suicide operation. She prepared her clothes for that operation, and we are proud. 'I don't want anything, only to die a martyr.' That's what she said."

                If Europe is lucky they might be allowed to leave the new Caliphate for the and other more secular areas provided that has not also gone down the same road to the abattoir of the infidel called Political Correctness first. After all we would want the Brits to beat us to it do we? After all the folks in “non-flyover ”  want us to be as urbane and refined as those fancy Europeans.

            Just my opinion though, I am sure you will tell me how wrong it is….

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Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top
Inactive huh?
Where is part three of the doughnut palace?
Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top
Glad to see your scathing wit making a brief comeback. Hope to see more of you. i agree with your thinking here. It's the slow sucking death of the Old Europe and many people will feel that it's inevitable or more likely, the best plan. sigh. hell in a handbasket and all.
Start11 - Customize the Start Menu and Taskbar in Windows 10/11.
Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top
Is it too late?  Not as long as it has not happened, but it is looking more and more inevitable.
Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top

Inactive huh?

You will note that it did say UFN... this constitutes "notice".

Where is part three of the doughnut palace?

It's on the way eventually along with the Deadly Charisma and other multi-parters...

Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top

Not as long as it has not happened

I think it has happened and they just haven't donned the hijab yet.

Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top
It's simple... those who don't care enough to act will always fall to the whim and will of those who do.
Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top
Is this satire? I hope it is.

If it isn't then I would just like to point out that it is middle class PC hands wringers "banning" Christmas in Britain, not Muslims.

There are about 1 million Muslims in Britain, that leaves 59 million Christian and other. Hardly a "takeover".
Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top

There are about 1 million Muslims in Britain, that leaves 59 million Christian and other. Hardly a "takeover".

Did you read the fine articles? I hope you did but I know you did not by your answer.

The 1 million Muslims have got the 59 million Christians scared shitless over Christmas and additionally are breeding them into the ground. The wave is generational and not current, hence the demographics of it all. 59 million people who each have 1 child per person results in zero population growth. 59 million who have 2 children per (or evn more inthis case) double or more their representation in the population each generation. Further these new generations are even larger portions of the military age and power-holders of each successive generation.

Yes, Britain is a bit behind the rest of the continent (see France) but simply being overwhelmed more slowly then your neighbohs is not cause to celebrate.

There are only a million there now and Christmas is taboo... what happens at 2 million? or 20 million? Yes the PC handwringers are their dupes and that is the point. The muslim population is active, militant, and virile while the native contingent iare rapidly turning into weak, frightened, and sterile proxies.

Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top
The 1 million Muslims have got the 59 million Christians scared shitless over Christmas and additionally are breeding them into the ground


Eurlamabad! Eurolams we will become if the pc twats have anything to say about it.
Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top

Eurlamabad!

Not bad... I think Eurabia is currently in vogue but I expect that yours is just as apt.

Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top
The 1 million Muslims have got the 59 million Christians scared shitless over Christmas and additionally are breeding them into the ground. The wave is generational and not current, hence the demographics of it all. 59 million people who each have 1 child per person results in zero population growth. 59 million who have 2 children per (or evn more inthis case) double or more their representation in the population each generation. Further these new generations are even larger portions of the military age and power-holders of each successive generation.


Actually, greywar, replacement rate is around 2.1-2.4 children per woman. That's based on the assumption that some will die before childbirth/will be gay/barren/celibate.

Europe's been dying for quite some time - Italy's been in actual decline since the 70s.

Personally I don't think Islamism will be a long-term threat to European stability. European culture is unbelievably powerful, perhaps the most powerful the world has ever seen. The chances of it fading out altogether in favour of hardcore Wahhabism or any strain of Islam for that matter is low. Whoever lives in Europe will inevitably be influenced by the great pillars of Europe - the highly adaptable Catholic Church, the great thinkers of the past and, perhaps more than anything, the mildly inhospitable climate, which forces the population to be industrious.

Europe has always been more than the people, and just because they change in skin tone and religion doesn't make them different. During the reformation Amsterdam became Calvinist, but that didn't stop it being European. Under the Moors Spain reached a cultural, political and economic peak that wasn't matched until its golden age of colonisation.

At least with this 'invasion' noone has to lose their life who doesn't want to.
Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top
This is exactly the kind of paranoid crap that creates fear and mistrust. It is virtually word for word what was said about the Jews in Europe in the 20s.

They are breeding faster than us! They have secret societies! They control the media! Run for the hills! Protocols of Zion anyone? It is no better than the anti-Semitic bullshit in Iran, about the Jews being bloodthirsty monsters who breed like rats.

It is bullshit. the way you talk you would think America has no Muslims? What the American Muslims don't breed so fast? They don't have a secret plan to take over the world?

What the hell kind of word is "breeding" to use about human beings anyway.

You are too far gone to even try and reason with.
Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top
"European culture is unbelievably powerful, perhaps the most powerful the world has ever seen. The chances of it fading out altogether in favour of hardcore Wahhabism or any strain of Islam for that matter is low. Whoever lives in Europe will inevitably be influenced by the great pillars of Europe - the highly adaptable Catholic Church, the great thinkers of the past and, perhaps more than anything, the mildly inhospitable climate, which forces the population to be industrious."

At least someone has a brain at this site.
Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top

They are breeding faster than us! They have secret societies! They control the media! Run for the hills! Protocols of Zion anyone? It is no better than the anti-Semitic bullshit in Iran, about the Jews being bloodthirsty monsters who breed like rats.


Actually it's quite different to those days. The immigrant populations do outbreed native Europeans, and so far at least their breeding rates haven't dropped over the generations. Back in the anti-Semitic days European families would regularly be in the double-digits. These days having two children is a rarity for Euros but it's common for immigrant families to have four or more. Somewhere over the next few hundred years the immigrant population is going to overtake the European one, the only question is how foreign these 4th or 5th generation immigrants are going to be.

I think they'll be fairly European in their outlook to begin with (which matches most studies of later-generation immigrant populations), Greywar seems to think they'll be no different to immigrants who've just stepped off the boat. Who's right isn't something we're going to see for quite some time yet.
Reply #15 from JoeUser Forums Top

This is exactly the kind of paranoid crap that creates fear and mistrust. It is virtually word for word what was said about the Jews in Europe in the 20s.

What WTC towers did the Jews fly planes into?  Just curious as that is the most assinine comparison I have seen in a long time.

Reply #16 from JoeUser Forums Top
Ah yes the 'Eurabia' fantasy again. In order to understand where this is coming from a few observations are necessary:

1. Americans are the least-well travelled of any peoples in the developed world (something like only 14% of them have passports), so most of this comes from Fox News and right-wing blogs, rather than any personal knowledge of Europe. Think about it: if your only source of information is the most sensationalist end of that part of the press that feeds your own political views, is it any wonder that you will end up hearing a garbled and hysterically exaggerated version of events?

2. This idea comes from the American hard right, (rather than from American 'conservatives' - of which there are anyway relatively few). 'Eurabia' is part of the vocabulary of right-wing radicals. If there is a 'silent majority', it is made up of those of us fed up with the hysterical radicalism of the left and the right.

3. Europe has become a conundrum for American rightists. Throughout the Cold War the western half at least was solidly allied to the United States. Today, major western nations dare to disagree with the US - and disagree big time - over issues of foreign policy. This leaves many Americans confused and its right-wing radical nationalists seething with rage. The 'Eurabia' nonsense is mostly a symptom of a new knee-jerk anti-Europeanism. In fact it is a gift: a way to combine anti-European and anti-Islamic feelings into one neat package.

4. To put this into perspective, let's reverse the situation and see what comes out: European radical leftists, who have never been to the United States, reading only that part of the press that feeds into their own political prejudices, read all about the KKK, white supremacist militias and the Blues Brothers encounter with the Illinois Nazis. There upon, with a complete ignorance of America's political system and the degree to which these extremists (and fictional characters) really are unrepresentative of the nation as a whole, they conclude (because they want to), that the USA will be a Nazi totalitarian state in a couple of generations. Sounds silly, doesn't it? Ditto Eurabia!!!
Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top
:What WTC towers did the Jews fly planes into? Just curious as that is the most assinine comparison I have seen in a long time.


No it isn't. The average Muslim in these nations doesn't wear burkhas or give a damn whether or not they see a Christmas tree. This is the mirror image of "the Jews will breed us out of existence" that frightened a lot of people in Europe AND the US in the years leading up to WW2. This looks more like fear of Democracy to me, and is mirrored in all the "English as an official language" bunk.

If you're worried about breeding Christmas out of us, why not worry about Atheism or Jews for that matter? Was it Muslims who wanted the trees taken down here? How would it be seen, do you think, if you wrote this about Hasidic Jews?
Reply #19 from JoeUser Forums Top

Europe is doomed.

It's already too late unfortunately.

The reason I say that is that its culture is now thoroughly about not having children. It's a thoroughly secular society and seculars simply don't reproduce at the same rate as non-secular people. There are a number of studies trying to figure this out.

I am secular but have 3 children. I do think education has a lot to do with it but intelligence none of it.  Having children is a form of sacrifice. We sacrifice our ability to be sompletely self-involved in order to raise and support children.  Obviously there are many bad parents out there, but all in all, people who choose to have children are choosing to make their lives about more than themselves and their own causes. (we're tlaking broad generalizations here).

As a very self-involved guy, having children was a tough choice for me. But my wife was an influencing factor and she's the least self-involved person I know.  In secular Europe, it's a different matter. Nearly everyone is thinking about themselves or "issues" they care about.

Interesting statistic I read in "Who really cares" the other day: Western Europe has the lowest volunteer rate of any group in the study (i.e. worldwide).  Having children is the ultimate form of volunteering your time for another person.

So yea, in 50 more years, Europe will be pretty much spent as a major force.  It's just a matter of calculating the population of native Europeans and going from there.

Reply #20 from JoeUser Forums Top

1. Americans are the least-well travelled of any peoples in the developed world (something like only 14% of them have passports), so most of this comes from Fox News and right-wing blogs, rather than any personal knowledge of Europe. Think about it: if your only source of information is the most sensationalist end of that part of the press that feeds your own political views, is it any wonder that you will end up hearing a garbled and hysterically exaggerated version of events?

Oh please. Do you even bother to think about the things you read?  If Americans had to have passports to go to other states, they'd be the most well-traveled.

Why don't you look at statistics on the number of MILES the average American travels and you'll discover that no, Americans are actually the most well traveled group in the world.

The reason nonsense stats like what you quote come up is because Europeans travel to other European countries which is akin to Americans traveling to other states. Or are Americans expected to fly across ocenas in order to be as "worldly" as the Spanyard who visits Portugal?

Anther thing, what is it with left-wingers and Fox news? Everything is about Fox news. Fox news tops out at 2 million daily viewers. That's it. 

The average American has access to vastly more news sources than the typical European.  But please, tell us what TV news providers the average Frenchman has?

Not only does the US have the Internet (like anyone in Europe) we have the give major networks, PBS, MSNBC, CNN, CNNHN, FOXNews, CNBC, and a hundred or so cable stations (and more if you have satellite). We also have far more print publications than any European is likely to have access to.

Tell me this: If Europeans are so worldly, then why are they so politically similar? In the last French election you have the far left. the left and their equivalent of the far right (LaPen) who is also a socialist too.  There's very little diversity in political philosophy in Europe compared to the United States.  But yea, the existence of some tiny cable news network with 2 million viewers is the apocalypse to left-wing tolerance.

Reply #21 from JoeUser Forums Top

3. Europe has become a conundrum for American rightists. Throughout the Cold War the western half at least was solidly allied to the United States. Today, major western nations dare to disagree with the US - and disagree big time - over issues of foreign policy. This leaves many Americans confused and its right-wing radical nationalists seething with rage. The 'Eurabia' nonsense is mostly a symptom of a new knee-jerk anti-Europeanism. In fact it is a gift: a way to combine anti-European and anti-Islamic feelings into one neat package.

Most Americans don't care about Europe because, as a whole, it's largely irrelevant today outside Europe. And by Europe, I mean the continent as opposed to UK which seems to be doing much better. The English channel saves the day I guess.

Does Europe still make anything? I mean, you know, besides wine and luxury cars? How many products and goods and services can really say they're European? That is, how many industries does Europe dominate or even lead in today?

What influence does Europe have today? I mean that seriously. What trends are Europe at the forefront of? These trends can be good or bad, I am just looking for any trend. Heck, even as hold outs against genetically modified food is almost a trend (in the sense of being against pastorization could have been a trend <g>).

We talked earlier about European culture. Okay, what culture is Europe producing that the world is taking notice of? I mean that seriously. I'm trying to think of a product, good, or service that I own that is European in manufacture or thought. I suppose LEGOs (at least that was founded in Denmark even if it's long since ceded all its efforts overseas).

As a typical dumb, right-wing American, I want to be educated. I want to learn. Tell me why exactly you think Americans are "enraged" with European chattering and disagreement? The people who live in Bolivia don't agree with American policies either. They may not even like Europeans. Should Europeans care? Should we?

Nation states or collections of nation states influence the world either through cultural power, economic power, or mlitary power.  Does Europe really have any of these things anymore? I'll grant it has cultural power in the form of inertia and in the form that the United States exerts cultural power that was based on European principles (that Europe has largely long since abandoned).

I like Europeans. I have a lot of friends in Europe. Even as I type this message I am IMing 3 different European friends (one in Italy, one in Holland, and one in UK).  But that has nothing to do with European culture or Europe as an entity.

European doom is not based on right-wing hysteria. It's based on something called math.  Last year, 15 European countries had birthrates of LESS than 1.3 children.

Like Cacto mentions, the question isn't whether Europe is dying. The question is whether Europe's native culture is strong enough to turn the Islamic immigrants into cultural Europeans fast enough to stave off the death of Europe as we know it.   And what I think will happen is that in 100 years from now Europea will be largely Islamic instead of Secular.

Reply #22 from PolMach Forums Top
Tell me this: If Europeans are so worldly, then why are they so politically similar?

They aren't. Not at all. I don't know how much personal experience with Europe and in Europe you have, but saying that we're so politically similar is really funny with regards to what's going on over here. I guess that European political diversity simply isn't an interesting topic for the average US news report - not that I'd blame them for it. In fact, having a political system with basically only two major parties (although not homogeneous, of course) seems just a little similar to me.
Reply #23 from PolMach Forums Top
Hmm, something makes me think that Brad simply got out of bed with the wrong foot today...
Reply #24 from PolMach Forums Top
Nearly everyone is thinking about themselves or "issues" they care about.

Funny, that's common prejudice about US Americans in Europe...

Europeans travel to other European countries which is akin to Americans traveling to other states.

I don't think it is. Visit Norway, Romania and then Spain to get an impression.

Does Europe still make anything?

According to Wikipedia, the EU's GDP was higher than the US' in 2005. (Granted - EU population is higher as well, thus GDP per capita is lower.)
Germany alone is the largest exporter of goods in the world. Sounds like there are interesting products after all.
Reply #25 from PolMach Forums Top
extermination of Christian references during the Christmas season in Britain

I heard about it, and I think it's moronic. But tell me one thing: Isn't "Happy Holidays" the official formula instead of "Merry Christmas" in the US for the same "reason" basically? Or is that a misconception?

Europe isn't doomed. We're having problems and challenges like every country in the world, but they can and will be solved. Demographics are an important issue (but shouldn't be overstated on the other hand), but steps are taken to strengthen families and to encourage a more children-friendly society overall. Nobody is able to say when and how much these things will change, but it's not like we aren't aware of the problem.