Debt Limit Should Be Relative to GDP

I agree with this. But I'd also like to see a switch that would not let you spend more than you have. For example, in my current game my income is 480,000 bc per turn. I inadvertantly overspent my treasury by 124 bc. Because of this I get no research on my next turn. This is a bit silly.

Aye! Relative debt limit is a great idea.

I agree. You obviously have the means with GDP to get out of debt quickly enough.

I agree too. It is the most logical and realistic way to go about it. Stardock friends, please listen to this suggestion

For example, in my current game my income is 480,000 bc per turn. I inadvertantly overspent my treasury by 124 bc.

So what did you buy, that cost over 480,000 bc?

And if you are making that much, wouldn't you have so much in the treasury in a few turns as to make it nearly impossible to overspend?

I wonder how it is even possible to make so much.

So what did you buy, that cost over 480,000 bc?

Yeah, I was wondering that myself!

I wonder how it is even possible to make so much.

Now I know that Mumblefratz has the skills to do this... so that isn't even being questioned by me. I just can't seem to find a way to generate that kind of income, regardless of how many planets I have, which usually numbers 350+ in my games on an average. Is it due to your starbases Mumblefratz? That is all that I can think of since the starbases are one aspect that I seriously "under-utilize".

So what did you buy, that cost over 480,000 bc?

Eleven 40,000 bc battleships plus a few buildings.

And if you are making that much, wouldn't you have so much in the treasury in a few turns as to make it nearly impossible to overspend?

I spend the 480,000 bc each and every turn. In one similar game I did get tired of spending the money for about the last year and ended the game with 50 million bc in my treasury.

I wonder how it is even possible to make so much.

290 planets, *lots* of stock exchanges, a couple of economic resources to mine and the economic prosperity event.

Is it due to your starbases

No. I use arrays of economic starbases with manufacturing modules to boost research and production but I don't bother with trade or trade modules.

Note that this is still v1.31, I'll need to modify this with v1.4 to include morale buildings. This will definitely cut into the amount of money you can make, but you should still be able to get into the hundreds of thousands range.

The short story is that I do my initial colony build pretty much like everyone else and get about 50-60 planets that are my core worlds. I build these with something like 4 factories 4 economic buildings a research building and a farm. I usually hold off on the farm until I get some morale tech, wonders and resources.

Once I start to conquering planets, I immediately convert them to one or two farms and all stock exchanges, no starport, no factories, no research, no nothing. With v1.4 I'll probably need one VRC for every 4 stock exchanges or so. My 50 original planets are totally sufficient for all my production. In fact as you earn more and more money, you can begin to convert some of them to money planets as well. That's pretty much it. When you get to the end of a gigantic abundant all loose cluster game and have 500 planets with 460 or so optimized for income plus all of the economic resources in the game getting close to a million bc's a turn is not out of the question. With v1.4 maybe this gets cut down to a half million a turn, but that's still a lot of money.

I have reached nearly 200,000 bc with around 170 planets, several econ resources and the prosperity event.
You play in denser galaxies than I do, so that would explain it.
But I don't usually get that high until later in the games.

But I am also a peace loving Neutral, so I don't usually initiate any wars. I just take the planets of any race that brings a war to me, or soak them up through influence.

Actually, this is higher than I usually get at this point but more often than not I don't get the prosperity event. When I got 950K bc per turn in v1.2 there was no prosperity event the whole game, but I did have 6 economic resources.

no starport,

So on some of those far flung planets, what do you do for defensive measures against possible invasion? I have a hard time not building a starport, even on my lowest PQ planet. There's just something about the added security blanket that comes from the ability to pump out a ship at a moments notice, anywhere throughout my empire.  

So on some of those far flung planets, what do you do for defensive measures against possible invasion?

Nothing.

I do keep a top line fleet stationed on every resource that I'm mining, so there usually is a nearby fleet. Overall, I don't believe in any defense whatsoever, only offense. If I get into a war and my opponent starts taking some of my planets, I really don't care that much, particularily taking income planets is no real big deal. I'm far more concerned about my research and production planets and the starbase array's that surround them, those I definitely protect with numbers of fleets.

Basically, in a war I simply try to take my opponents planets faster than he takes mine. I find it counter productive to try to shift back and forth between offense and defense. Once I've taken most or all of his original planets it's pretty easy to come back and retake the few planets that he's managed to take from me.

Also the focus on offense usually results in most if not all of the action occuring in my opponents space and not mine. This means that the only planets my opponents takes are ones I've taken from him which I then promptly re-re-take (if that makes sense).

With the money I make I can buy 10-12 battleships each and every turn. I've never seen a straight production base that can compete with this. Plus on the few production planets that I do have with their starbase production bonuses, I usually have 20 planets that can build a battleship every other turn, if needed. The standard factory based planet without starbase assist will probably produce a top line battleship in ten turns. If you have 200 planets like this, you may break even with the production I get out of 20 planets plus the money I make. Which of these two scenarios is superior?

Which of these two scenarios is superior?

I would say the latter, utilizing 20 planets. You have a very analytical way of approaching a game Mumblefratz, I will give you that! I would love to try out some of your strat, I just don't think I would be able to absorb all of the statistical studies, so to speak. As you may well know, or assume, I just like to get in there and bash the crap out of them, and as long as my finances hold up and I have the majority share of the goodies, I just steamroll on through. Probably not the most graceful and elegant way to play, but it works.  Thanks for the reply Mumblefratz!

Nothing wrong with steamrolling. Plus I'd probably call what I do more anal than analytical, you really do have to enjoy the micromanagement.

But, it's just one style of play, there are certainly others equally (or even more) valid. I think to truly be good at this, or any other game, you need to master *all* styles. If you only stay with the way you're comfortable with, it gets to be boring.

Plus if you only have one method of winning you'll find it doesn't always work and then you're stuck. When the lives of your subjects depend on your decisions, it's not OK to throw them under the bus just because your favorite strategy didn't work out this time.   

With the money I make I can buy 10-12 battleships each and every turn. I've never seen a straight production base that can compete with this. Plus on the few production planets that I do have with their starbase production bonuses, I usually have 20 planets that can build a battleship every other turn, if needed. The standard factory based planet without starbase assist will probably produce a top line battleship in ten turns. If you have 200 planets like this, you may break even with the production I get out of 20 planets plus the money I make. Which of these two scenarios is superior?

Back in mid September I posted a military victory to the Metaverse. In that game I went for the quick victory on Dec. 15 2228 (rounded down to 2 years) and scored 99500. I loaded up Dec. 8 2228 and extended the game a year to complete the tech tree, fully development my worlds, and grow my population. By Dec. 22 2229 my population more than doubled and my military was now massive, giving me a new score of 155500. With military spending at 100%, between Dec. 15 and Dec. 22 my 287 planets produced 38 dreadnoughts (costing ~1300BC each to build), without any starbases boosting productuion. I replayed that final turn, using my massive treasury to buy around a hundred additional dreadnoughts (costing ~15300B each to purchase [playing as neutral so I received a discount] but I was spending on average half that to buy partially completed ships) but my military and overall score remained the same, so it seems your military score is not affected by the strength of your military.

Mumblefratz, what was your population on those 290 planets and what was your tax rate?

Mumblefratz, what was your population on those 290 planets and what was your tax rate?

I think my pop is about 4T and my tax rate is 79% (this is still v1.31). I got a slower start colonizing than I used to, so I had to come from behind. I've actually just started with the Yor and the Thalan outrank me militarily by a lot, so I still have a lot of work to do. I'd guess I'm 2/3 done with the game at this point.

A couple points about metaverse score. IMHO the score is based on the area under the appropriate curve. Having a large income or a large pop or large research spending or large military for a short period of time does very little, particularly if it’s only one turn. You need to have a large rating, whatever the category, over a period of time to have a noticeable effect. What I’m talking about for a military score would be something around 2000 battleships each with an attack value of 1500 or so that you had for at least two or three years. If you have a military like that, I’ll guarantee you’ll notice the difference in your military score.

Definitely support your proposal. Anyone from Stardock here?

Anyone else think the quick buy is too powerfull ? I mean how does a planet without factories suddenly produce a ship even if dumping loads of dough on it ?

For me, the only good thing about quick buying is it provides flexibility in strategy. (especially buying factories/research on planets to kick start them.)

Personally I'd love to see the quick buy idea reworked. (not sure how)

you can't spell "analytical" without "anal"

Mumblefratz is right about the area under the curve bit. Also, it would be nice to see the 20K+ treasury penalty be relative to your per turn income. Having a treasury of 20K is not hoarding if your monthly income is measured in the hundreds of thousands.

Now that I have finished the computer upgrades, done a fresh OS install, repaired the broken TiVo, replaced the bad TV and taken care of a host of other things (Is everybody's life like this?), I might be able to get back to GalCiv and finish my game!

Now that I have finished the computer upgrades, done a fresh OS install, repaired the broken TiVo, replaced the bad TV and taken care of a host of other things (Is everybody's life like this?), I might be able to get back to GalCiv and finish my game!

Sounds like you have a particularly long "honey dew" list.   

Now that I have finished the computer upgrades, done a fresh OS install, repaired the broken TiVo, replaced the bad TV and taken care of a host of other things (Is everybody's life like this?), I might be able to get back to GalCiv and finish my game!

I have a demanding job, wife, and two daughters age 2 and 4 so yes my life is like this! There is a reason I have only posted 2 MV games, that and high diff level, gigantic maps with everything abundant take a very long time to complete!!!

gigantic maps with everything abundant take a very long time to complete!!!

I certainly hear you there. I'm finally getting down to the short strokes in my first (and only) v1.31 gigantic abundant all suicidal game. Overall it probably will have taken me 6 weeks by the time I'm finished, and I don't even have any kids, but I do have a demanding wife, er I mean job.   

Now that I'm back from vacation (expensive trip to Disney World for my oldest daughter's 4th Birthday) and I've resubmitted my prior v1.2 game, I'm going to try my first v1.2 gigantic abundant all suicidal game. I debated whether to try v1.4 but decided I wanted to see if I could beat the AI at suicide in v1.2 before reworking my playing style. It will take at least two months to complete (more if I get cracking on the backlog of video editting of family videos), then I'll try v1.4 or the beta of DA.

Mumblefratz, how did you get promoted from Citizen to Diplomat?

Mumblefratz, how did you get promoted from Citizen to Diplomat?

Because he is such a helpful, informative, and patient person... and he can spell too  

Mumblefratz, how did you get promoted from Citizen to Diplomat?

Shush. I think someone made a mistake and if you point it out they may take it away.

While the above may indeed be true, I think I have Evil Stormbringer to thank for it. When the notice of the pending release of v1.4 came out, ES was complaining about the changes mainly because of a lack of internet access to do the download. Everybody in the thread was beating on poor old ES, which I thought was a shame because ES always seemed to me to be a pleasant character with a sunny disposition.   

Anyway, I offered to burn a v1.4 CD and mail it to him, I think that’s what did it. Of course, shortly thereafter, Kryo suggested he get a USB thumb drive and copy the download from work which is what he ended up doing.

Because he is such a helpful, informative, and patient person

I like to think that this is true, I try to be anyway. I have been guilty of recent undiplomatic behavior, but in general I do try to live up to the expectations.