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The complexities of marketing, publishing, and distributing

The complexities of marketing, publishing, and distributing

There is no easy way...

When you're a game developer, life is easy. Make customers happy. That's pretty much the only thing you have control over.  Few (very few) developers are also their own publishers. And publishers have a very different set of criteria -- making sure the retailers are happy too which may involve contradictory approaches.

Stardock has one thing going for it that most publishers don't -- a mature and popular digital distribution network (TotalGaming.net on the game side). This has helped us keep some leverage. After all, who the heck is Stardock anyway? But because we sell millions of dollars a year in software via our own digital distribution network, we have alternatives.  That is why, for instance, WindowBlinds hasn't been at retail.  For years, various distributors have tried to make us do deals that would be bad for our customers and bad for us but very good for them.  Historically, distributors had all the clout along with the retailers so the developer/publisher pretty much had to accept whatever was offered.  But digital distribution gives us more options.  WindowBlinds, for example, sells more copies -- even today -- than Galactic Civilizations II.  And GalCiv II has sold very well. Well into the six figure range by the end of last June.  So you can imagine how well WindowBlinds sells and that's direct from Stardock.

This brings us to some of the things we want to do.

We want to lower the price of GalCiv II during the Christmas season. That probably sounds insane. But here's the thing, we want new players to feel like they're part of the rest of the community and hence be able to get Dark Avatar when it's available. And we don't want those users to be spending $70 at once.  As a gamer, I can deal with $40 to $50 at once and then $25 to $30 half a year or more later.  But expecting to put up $70 or more at once is too much for me. 

I know of a lot of cool games I've heard about via word of mouth over the years that I didn't end up buying because I wasn't willing to just get the base game when there was an expansion pack out.  Yes, I know I could just live with the regular game and get the expansion later. But I suspect I'm not the only one who feels this way -- if I'm going to get a game, I'm going to get the whole thing.

So now we talk about where the retailers come in.  Retail shelf space is tight.  So one idea was to expand Dark Avatar even further. Put in MORE features than we have listed there. Make it not quite a sequel but far more than a typical expansion pack...

..and then, thanks to digital distribution release the upgrade as the expansion pack digitally so people who bought the original game could get the full new version of GalCiv II at a discount and make the retail version a compilation that includes it all in a single box.  This would make retailers happy and new users happy but it would mean dealying the expansion pack until after Christmas (we'd do an open beta this Fall so people who wanted to start playing it before Christmas could play, it would be "Beta" only in name really, no buggier than a 1.x beta has been which means, some bugs but nothing huge typically).

But doing so brings the question of what to call the new stand alone version? GalCiv II: Gold? GalCiv II: Dark Avatar? There is likely to be some confusion either way.  One of the benefits is that having an expansion pack and compilation version out at the same time would help sales at retail since that's when all the editiorial coverage and advertising would be taking place.  But again, the question returns - what to call the stand alone compilation vs. what to call the expansion pack.

So what got us thinking down this track in the first place? The CivFanatics.com contest. No single entry per se but reading through there just inspired us to want to come up wtih more features to put in. But at a certain point, the features become so long that they're almost a quasi-sequel being made with the same underlying game engine.

We'd love to hear your thoughts...

79,912 views 73 replies
Reply #51 Top
There is nothing more Disappointing than a game that is rushed out the door and you find out they cut out features just to make a date on the calander.


Exactly Most games released just before Chistmas suck.

I still say: Pre-Xmas Release + Post-Xmas Patch.


Has anyone from Stardock mentioned this as an option? If not, is seems people may be assuming this is feasable when it may not be. I don't think Stardock puts major features into patches.
Reply #52 Top
How about fixing for a final relase on bugs for 1.31 then release the game in November before christmas hits, call the game Galatic Civilization 2: Avatars Judgement and get T.V. stations such as XPLAY, or have the CEO or designers like AKA Cari Elf to go on Attack of the show, on the G4 channel to show your game that way everyone and there dog gets the game because they see that you guys rock. Or release the game and make sure it has the fixes for bugs beyond 1.31. Thats all I hope for and more. Thanx Stardock. --Viithtrump
Reply #53 Top

I still say: Pre-Xmas Release + Post-Xmas Patch.

Won't happen. Reviews of the expansion pack are based on the 1.0, not some future patch.

The options would be the expansion pack we originally discussed pre-Christmas or a significantly enhanced expansion pack post-Christmas.  We're leaning towards having a beta pre-Christmas so people can effectively play the game with the final expansion being in February.

Reply #54 Top
Would the pre-xmas beta pretty much be DA as was planned before the contest? If so, sounds good.
Reply #55 Top
Question- for those who pre-ordered, are they going to have to pay more, or is the price "locked" for them?
Reply #56 Top
Despite my usual long patience, understanding and want of better end products, I have been looking forward to DA coming out on time in a few weeks. I'd be disapointed if I had to wait another 3-4 months for it. I ordered it months ago as it is, it's a long time to wait.

I'd be quite happy if DA landed with the features already promised. It's enough and shoiuld be value for money. This extra stuff would be great but I don't think Stardock owe it to us to put so much in. I would be happy to get DA as adverised on schedule and the rest of it to go into the next expansion to come out 6-7 months or so down the road.

Alternatively, put some of it into DA updates as bonus content like we have had with GC2. Point is I don't want it to delay DA when I didn't expect to get it in the first place. What ever is left goes into expansion pack 2.

Now, forgetting the fact I have it on pre-order, lets think about new players. GC2 has been out for some time now, the release hype and media coverage is over. Sales now are probably being driven by word of mouth. I think the longer the gap is between GC2 news the more the game will slip from the limelight. Expansion packs attract attention, a higher profile boosts sales in the run up to christmas. Also, existing players will have time to drift away and forget about GC2, when the expansion finally turns up less people will still be interested in getting it.

Get the goods out on time as promised, get the media interest before GC2 becomes old news, release expansion 2 sooner than you would if DA's release was pushed back 4 months.

As always, I'm glad to see you guys standing up for a quality end product by being willing to go the extra mile. Just don't get carried away and make problems for yourselves you don't need.
Reply #57 Top

Has anyone from Stardock mentioned this as an option? If not, is seems people may be assuming this is feasable when it may not be. I don't think Stardock puts major features into patches.


The ship design interface was completely redesigned post-release, some pretty big changes have gone into those updates.
Reply #58 Top
I will throw in my vote for holding off and doing the DA release after Christmas. Having more built into the game rarely seems to hurt.

The idea of people that pre-paided getting to play the BETA is cool too.
Personally I have not pre-ordered yet myself, financial reasons, but to show the loyal and supportative customers some appreciation makes big difference.
Reply #59 Top
The ship design interface was completely redesigned post-release, some pretty big changes have gone into those updates.



Well, Brad just said it ain't gonna happen.

I think people would be more supportive of holding off for more features if they knew what those feature were.

People who want it NOW no matter what seem to be people who play nothing but GC2 and so need a steady stream of content to keep them going. I play lots of different games and can go weeks or months without touching GC2. Whenever DA is released I'll buy it if it's good. I don't even care what they charge for it. Good games are a bargain when you spend hundereds of hours playing them.
Reply #60 Top
The options would be the expansion pack we originally discussed pre-Christmas or a significantly enhanced expansion pack post-Christmas. We're leaning towards having a beta pre-Christmas so people can effectively play the game with the final expansion being in February.


My vote would be for the enhanced expansion pack post-Christmas, with a playable beta pre-Christmas.
Reply #61 Top
As a casual gamer who has ordered the pre-release version - I would be glad to be patient and wait until after the X-Mas season. You have my $$ and my support whatever you all decide to do.

I am not a teeny-x'er - I am a mature professional who loves 4x games, and quite honestly, the next few months are my busiest time of year, leaving little time for serious gaming.

Your original release of GC2 in February was perfect - it caught my attention because there was not much else being released then. Quite honestly, it probably would have been lost to my attention in the X-Mas crunch.

I like your idea - DARE TO BE DIFFERENT!!!
Reply #62 Top
Ok, here goes:

I very much respect you guys for asking... you didn't HAVE to. I am preordered. That was an investment in you. I trust you to do what is best to keep the game and your company alive, I will happily wait.

I am shocked no one has proposed the obvious, X-Men movie-style:

GALACTIC CIVILIZATIONS 2.5

"Contains the award winnng Galactic Civilizations 2 Collector's Edition, plus the all-new Dark Avatar "game novella" with expanded content and gameplay options"


Just include the DA beta, and mark very clearly on the disk (and in small print on the package) that additional DA content and a full campaign will be released online and by mail in early 2007.


I think that says it all quite nicely...
Reply #63 Top
I'm rather partial to the name suggested in the first reply: "Player's Choice Edition." It sends the message that the players of the game had significant input in the new version and that significant additions and changes were made. It also stands out from the usual run of gold/ultimate/etc.

That said, I'd rather just wait for the bigger expansion. Galciv 2 released in Feb. and it did great; that might not work for titles in some other genres, but I think TBS players tend to have a little more patience than that. I think we're a bit older as a demographic too and know that most games on the shelf on the run-up to Christmas have been rushed out the door. In other words, you may lose out on some gift sales, but the core audience for GC2 will be interested whether the game comes out in two months or four. The beta for preorders sounds more than fair as well IMO.
Reply #64 Top
Ummm... Perhaps the forums would be a better place for this? I think Brad wanted constructive criticism relating to ideas for the next expansion and the current game, not other ones.


note that i began the post with "off topic"...do ya think i didn't realize that? i was hoping for an answer out of courtesy

Reply #65 Top
Just include the DA beta


I would think that including a beta version of anything in a retail release is just like taking the time to carefully aim the .45 at your foot. Just look at all of the grief generated by beta expansions and that was by people who should have known what they were getting into!

Calling the retail version of DA

GALACTIC CIVILIZATIONS 2.5: Dark Avatar
(Includes the option to play the original rules of Galactic Civilizations II v1.31)
or
(Includes the option to play Galactic Civilizations II: Ultimate Edition)


[after all, you don't have any intentions of releasing any more GC2 patches, do you?]

is a pretty good idea - It gets across the idea that it is still GC2, but with additional features and content. And not that it is a whole new game.

On my projects, if you are late or over budget you get a lot of grief, but when the dust settles all everyone cares about or remembers is whether or not you produced a quality facility.

Do it right - besides Feb is when early birds get their tax refunds. (If , of course you live in the US and are one of those who LIKE loaning the feds your money over the course of the year )
Reply #66 Top
Good thoughts for the long haul I think. But there are an awful lot of us that are already your customer and we all would like to see DA out now. For as long as I've checked the DA page it has said October 2006. Please do not delay the release, I have waited long enough. I'm sooo tired of playing dumb AI players and really want to be able to edit their play styles.
Reply #67 Top
So really the first question is - would users be willing to wait until AFTER Christmas for an expansion pack if it had more features? Or would they prefer the original expansion pack concept? OR would they be okay with the expansion pack after Christmas as long as there was a beta program for those who pre-ordered it before Christmas?


The very fact that you're asking US for feedback on this is another great example of how quality of a company Stardock is and how much you really care about your fans/customers/community. It makes me happy to support you folks with my time, money and word-of-mouth praise.

I think the question is simple: will delaying the release of the expansion pack make it a higher quality product, or would releasing in October as planned and patching in more features later result in a better product?

Also I think this situation calls for caution. As developers you will ALWAYS have more ideas and be able to add in more things. You've had great ideas that you wanted to put into Dark Avatar and are doing so. You've now come up with some other fantastic ideas you want to include in an expansion pack and are considering delaying DA for. What happens if, come Christmas time, you're getting ready to release DA+, and inspiration strikes again? Will you delay a second time?

My opinion is to follow through with your intentions of releasing DA as it is. Give yourselves time to contemplate and fully flesh out these new ideas. Stardock has proven itself as a trustworthy game company that everyone here knows really cares about its fan base. We know you're making decisions regarding GalCiv2 in our best interest and will continue to do so. So, knowing that I could easily wait on these features.
Reply #68 Top
I would much rather wait until after Christmas for a DA expansion which is both stable and more feature/content rich.
I still have not tried v1.31 or any of the user mods so there is plenty to keep the game fresh for me until next year. You could release a beta before Christmas to those who pre-order, to kept those you can't wait happy and get feedback on bugs.
Reply #69 Top
From Stardocks point of view, I dont think it would be wise to delay something that is ready for release right before the CHristmas season until after the Christmas season.

Seems like your gonna want your product on the shelves for the massive shopping season.

I do confess a certain level of selfishness as I am really looking forward to the added features in DA. I would rather it not be delayed.

If you could give us access to a beta version to play with while the "Offical Expanded" DA is being built, then I would be ok with that.
Reply #70 Top
From Stardocks point of view, I dont think it would be wise to delay something that is ready for release right before the CHristmas season until after the Christmas season.

Seems like your gonna want your product on the shelves for the massive shopping season.


The initial plan did not involve DA being on retail shelves *at all* until next year, if ever (only available by direct order from us and on TGN). And it's too late to change that now, since like Brad has said it takes three full months advance reservation to get shelf space for a new product. So no matter which way things go, DA won't be in stores at Christmastime.
Reply #71 Top
Offer the standone expansion online at the usual cost. Since you have 'activation' copy protection as opposed to a CD-dongle, Sell a combine version with no 'gold' or 'platinum' gimmick. Just say 'Galactic Civilizations II included!' or something. Then put an offer in the box that will offer a mail-in or paypal rebate (I personally don't do 6-8 weeks for mail-in rebates; rebate form can be mailed-in or filled online and can have check, paypal, and possibly ACH payout methods) for the difference of the prices of the 'GalCivII Deluxe' retail box and the standalone expansion price for any customer registration that has both the base game and the expansion purcahses activated on it. This will cover people that are paranoid of buying online and the ignorant gift-givers (and the recipient gets the rebates!)
Reply #72 Top
Take as much time as you need. Maybe do a little public beta to appease those who want it NOW NOW NOW. I'll wait. As someone else pointed out, GC2 was released after Christmas and that hasn't hurt it's sales one bit.


I agree. When i have to choose between extra features or pre Christmas release, i would take the extra features any day.
Reply #73 Top
Beta for xmas for pre-order ppl, and release for Q1 2007 is fine for me (i'm a casual player too btw).

Please take your time to add new cool features and thx for sharing with us your thoughts on the subject