Do Democrats hate America (or at least don't like it much)?

Dude you're not being very fair. You say less than half of Kerry voters think our country is fair and decent. The actual figure is 46%. By contrast only 40% of those same Kerry voters think it's not. Neither percentage is good though.

You know me, I can't stand democrats! But at least be fair and show both sides of the coin.

46% IS less than half.

I think it depends on how you ask the question, or the context of the question. I think I could frame this in such a way that MORE than 46% of Republicans would say it isn't fair and decent. Consider the perception of our federal court system. Our tax system.

Consider a question like, "Do you think our social services system is fair and decent?" I'd be willing to bet many Dems AND Republicans would answer no, and for totally opposite reasons. I've noticed you can get that with the war in Iraq, too. I don't believe it is going well because we aren't crushing our enemies there. Others believe it isn't going well because we are showing offensive behavior at all.

I guess the fundamental question is totally dependant on what you think the word 'America' means in that sentence. I don't believe even a double digit number on either side believes that the fundamental concepts of America aren't fair and decent. I just think that many people feel that we have departed from those concepts.

Blogging has shown me that. You can put a far right winger and a far left winger in the same room, and give them each a "are you satisfied, rate 1-10" list and I think you'd be surprised by how identical their opinions would look. Make it an essay exam and there'd be zero similarities. That's the trouble with polls.

I agree with the sentiment of the article. I believe that the majority of Democrats do hate America for the most part, but it is the fundamental values that Brad and I *believe* define America. They would be aghast at that statement because they look at FDR and affirmative action and imposed equality and demand to know why we are accusing them of hating those values.

We simply don't consider those values "American", and they look at free market enterprise and see a Dickens world of starving orphans and Enron and believe THAT isn't America. In both cases we see America dangerously on the verge of defining itself as something we find distasteful. Some believe we have crossed the line and BECOME distasteful. Those people would have answered the question the way Brad describes, on either side of the political forum.

Bakerstreet should get a job as a Poll Analyst!

But even taking the context of the question, the results are, while not surprising, very enlightening.

I am with you on the "not happy with Republicans today"

I keep asking myself how did it come to this:? people hating their own country much.

I have not  come up with an answer for myself yet.

Rasmussen is well known as a biased polling firm. Lets not forget that most polling now shows 60-70% of Americans think the country has gone down the wrong path and this is during republican majorities. Recent years have been a stark condemnation of the republican party no polling in the world can save republicans now. Do I hate American now? I'm a libertarian and I hate this country now and place the blame solely on this administration for my hatred and general world hatred of this country. It will take decades to clean up the mess.

Rasmussen is well known as a biased polling firm

Rassmussen is known as the polling company that called the last 2 presidential elections dead on.  I hardly think that is Biased, unless you still think W stole the last 2.

I think America is okay...and I'm a Democrat...maybe I'm not a crazy, psycho Democrat, but a Democrat nonetheless.

~Zoo

46% IS less than half.

Yes sir it is. But 40% against is lower and still way less than half.

I think America is okay...and I'm a Democrat...maybe I'm not a crazy, psycho Democrat, but a Democrat nonetheless.

YOu are an endagered species at UM!

I Just love how all the blame for everything falls on George W. Bush.. like he has been president since 1784.

"like he has been president since 1784."

It just feels like that.

"like he has been president since 1784." It just feels like that.

Welcome to the club.  Like I like my children telling me that "oral Sex" is not sex because Bill said so.

Wow, Draginol, where did this come from?

I doubt Democrats 'hate America' or 'think it sucks' simply because they are critical of it. Those that turn a criticism in to smear probably have an agenda.

Let's keep in mind the majority of the country; the Legislative, Executive and almost the majority of the Supreme Court is Republican controlled / represented at the time of the Rasmussen poll.

Had it been Democratically controlled instead, I think we'd probably see a 'little less then half' of Republican voters thinking America not to be a fair and decent country.

I may not be happy with Republicans these days but I am not about to vote for people who basically think our country sucks. - Draginol

This line is what really bothers me. It's about throwing one's hands up in the air and saying, "I don't like the path that we're on but I'm afraid that if we changed from that path it could only get worse." This is the ultimate justification for holding on to the status quo which I think is damning evidence of your attempt to provide incumbents a free pass this coming election. They must be held accountable and they must be voted out, Democrat and Republican alike.

The question was pretty straight forward:

Is American a fair and decent country.  That's it.

46% of Democrats said Yes. 76% of Republicans said yes.

The question was NOT "Do you think America coudl be improved" or "Are you happy with the path we're on." No. The question was whether we're a fair and decent country.

DrMiller: If someone asks 5 people "Is DRMiller a fair and decent guy" and 2 people say yes, 1 person says no, and 1 person says "I'm not sure" are you going to suggest that most people think you're fair and decent? No.  Someone saying "I'm not sure" is not a ringing endorsement.  What would be your opinion of someone who said "I'm not sure" to the question of whether you're a fair and decent person? 

For me, I have no second-thoughts - the United States is a fair and decent country.  I think the world would be much better off if more countries were like the United States (another question that was asked incidentally in that poll).  That doesn't mean I like every US policy or whatever, it has nothing to do with that.  The question is whether we're fair and decent. 

Had it been Democratically controlled instead, I think we'd probably see a 'little less then half' of Republican voters thinking America not to be a fair and decent country.

Nonsense. Find any evidence to support that. Clinton was President for 8 years. You'd be hard pressed to find Republicans who felt that America wasn't fair or decent.  America is not some transient executive administration.  America is not politicans.  America is the 300 or so million people in it. Our culture. Our principles. The question wasn't "Do you like the current administration" or "Is the US government fair and decent".  The question was as straight forward as you can get - are we a good country?

I think we intend to be a good country, but are represented by people that don't understand what a good country is. Killing 47,000 citizens of another country doesn't make us a good country, it makes us Nazi's. For all of the USA's good intentions the vast majority seem to go hopelessly wrong, especially under this current administration. Anytime this administration gets involved with anything, it tends to degrade, its almost like Bush is cursed, and has cursed this country for his terms. The numbers speak for themselves, consumer confidence is low, household budgets straining under big gas and utility expenses, record levels of murders nationwide, widespread passage of anti-consumer/citizen bills, the list goes on and on.

Are we a good country? No, we aren't. America is filled with arrogance, self centered mentality, a me-first and me-best outlook that generally makes us look like idiots to the rest of the world. America has shown time and time again that they don't value the lives of people of other countries more than themselves. We're an egotistical, wasteful, and ignorant country as a whole.

Nonsense. Find any evidence to support that. Clinton was President for 8 years. - Draginol

Apples and Oranges, Draginol.

Anyway, it's becoming more and more apparent to me you're simply trying to find any excuse to keep the state of things permanent.

The question was pretty straight forward:

Is America a fair and decent country?
- Draginol

I think it's a misnomer to call the somewhat inspecific and highly subjective question 'straightforward'.

For instance, when one uses the word 'America' in this 'straightforward question' are they referring to the Nation as it was founded, the Whole of it's current policies, the polite quality of it's citizens, it's daytime weather, what?

...are we a good country? - Draginol

This was your subjective translation of the straightforward question.

You know, if you ask me if we're a 'good country', I'll tell you that is a decision still being made. We can always do better and I think we've done better before, and I think America is ready to raise the bar and cull the fat. You seem to want to just use the question to somehow prove Democrats hate the U.S. and Republicans love the U.S. no matter what - both stances are divisive and dumb.

Seriously, has somebody else taken over your blogging handle, Draginol?

I think we're going to hell in a handbasket, and I'm not even a dem....

But in comparison to the other countries, I am so glad I'm living in the Good Ol' US of A. I wouldn't have it any other way.

DrMiller: If someone asks 5 people "Is DRMiller a fair and decent guy" and 2 people say yes, 1 person says no, and 1 person says "I'm not sure" are you going to suggest that most people think you're fair and decent? No. Someone saying "I'm not sure" is not a ringing endorsement. What would be your opinion of someone who said "I'm not sure" to the question of whether you're a fair and decent person? For me, I have no second-thoughts - the United States is a fair and decent country. I think the world would be much better off if more countries were like the United States (another question that was asked incidentally in that poll). That doesn't mean I like every US policy or whatever, it has nothing to do with that. The question is whether we're fair and decent.

I was "not" refuting your assesment the majority of Kerry voters do not think America is fair and decent. What I am saying is that the "other" portion which disagree with the 46% are not being mentioned at all. And in all fairness the difference between the two is what 2 or 3 people? It can't be many.

What binaristic vision you have Draginol. It would seem by many of your posts that reality for you is either defined in terms of being a republican or a democrat. and if one is not one.. then one must be the other. And if one thinks that America is not a 'fair and decent' place to live this somehow automatically equates with 'hating - or at least not liking very much' America.

For myself and my friends life is, and people are, far too complex to support such simplistic reasoning. Such syllogistic thinking would, however, seem to characterise much of your discourse. Perhaps your inability to experience let alone acknowledge that complexity is a reflection of the rigidity of your own moral universe. The wonderful thing about America is that we are free to express our dissent in practical concrete terms, no?

Consider this. how many potential repeaters let alone purchasers of your software do you think you have alienated with your simplistic 'us & them' characterizations?

What binaristic vision you have Draginol. - Mr. Roberts

I've accused another blogger here of the same thing. It may be a tactic used to polarize people and get them to choose sides however, and may not be indicative of one's actual reasoning.

On a similar note, the use of O'Reilly-esque lines of questioning (yes or no) like that being used in the Rasmussen poll are objectively designed to serve purposes other then open discussion of topics.

If consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds then Deference.. then the least one can accuse Draginol of is a lack of consistency in his approach.

Though I am critical of Draginol's assertions, I'm not trying to personally attack him or accuse him of being small minded.

If you're saying what I think you are, you should provide some links to prove your point and hopefully it has something to do with the topic of the thread.

I am referring to this thread Deference. I think it speaks for itself, don't you?