davad70

Join Date 03/2001

72% Of Troops In Iraq Want Out Within a Year

Are they guilty of giving aid & comfort to the enemy also?

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Bush has said repeatedly that talk of pulling out of Iraq undermines troop morale;

"It is also important for every American to understand the consequences of pulling out of Iraq before our work is done. … We would undermine the morale of our troops by betraying the cause for which they have sacrificed."12/18/05

A new poll to be released today shows that U.S. soldiers overwhelmingly want out of Iraq — and soon. The poll is the first of U.S. troops currently serving in Iraq, according to John Zogby, the pollster. Conducted by Zogby International and LeMoyne College, it asked 944 service members, “How long should U.S. troops stay in Iraq?” Only 23 percent backed Mr. Bush’s position that they should stay as long as necessary. In contrast, 72 percent said that U.S. troops should be pulled out within one year. Of those, 29 percent said they should withdraw “immediately.”

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Many outside of the administration have developed smart and realistic plans to get us out within a year. Link

Unfortunately, it doesn't appear that the administration would back any such plan, even if the soldiers who are actually making the sacrifices did.

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Imagine that people in a war zone getting killed and shot at wanting out of there.

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Imagine that people in a war zone getting killed and shot at wanting out of there.

That's a good point, but I think it's an indication of how they're not believing in the mission any more.

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Reply By: davad70Posted: Tuesday, February 28, 2006Imagine that people in a war zone getting killed and shot at wanting out of there.That's a good point, but I think it's an indication of how they're not believing in the mission any more.

as someone that fought in a shooting war, all I can say is the fighting man lives on bitching about everything, while doing their duty.

It never matters to the warriors if they agre or disagree with the "mission" they do what is asked.

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as someone that fought in a shooting war, all I can say is the fighting man lives on bitching about everything, while doing their duty.

It never matters to the warriors if they agree or disagree with the "mission" they do what is asked.

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Yes it is the Idiot that sent them who is at fault. He made sure he did not get his a*s into Vietnam but is more then willing to send the troops into a war that DID NOT MAKE AMERICA SAFER!

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Yes it is the Idiot that sent them who is at fault. He made sure he did not get his a*s into Vietnam but is more then willing to send the troops into a war that DID NOT MAKE AMERICA SAFER!

Wow nice rant COl.. ROFLMAO. Very fact filled and decisive!.

The Warrior Ethos:
I will always place the mission first.
I will never accept defeat
I will never quit
I will never leave a fallen comrade.

Part of the soldiers creed.

I can tell you that while deployed outside the US my first and most important thought was when was I going home. LOL So I know exactly how they are feeling. But I did not bitch or let it affect my mission performance (all 3 years overseas). Being a ex-soldier I can tell you the poll means jack. Did they ask combat or support troops? Did they ask regular army or reserve? All these things make a difference in the poll outcome. And you know what they say about polls, they are like A....... everyone has one they can call their own.

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Interesting.

I guess the military-industrial complex doesn't actually brainwash human beings and turn them into unthinking killbots.

Meanwhile, I want to go home and be with my wife and kids, too, but that doesn't mean I'm going to leave the office with today's work undone.

Sounds like soldiers are people, too, just like you and me.

What this article doesn't tell us is what percentage of soldiers would like to go home this year, but are willing to stay as long as it takes to finish the mission (even if it means putting the mission ahead of their own desires).

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ShadowWar

Just what Lt George W. Bush did in 1972-73 when it was his turn to serve his country!

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Meanwhile, I want to go home and be with my wife and kids, too, but that doesn't mean I'm going to leave the office with today's work undone.

Not exactly an apt comparison. Have you ever spent a full year at the office without leaving or seeing your loved ones?

Davad: From talking to the service members around here (and I won't even remotely suggest that I've talked to a majority, but I have talked to a random sampling), I have discovered that the whole "gung-ho, ultra-conservative Soldier" thing is a misconception.

Military opinion about war and politics is varied. Soldiers just aren't as free to express those opinions as the rest of us.

The poll results don't surprise me.

I don't agree with the Iraq war. I think it was unnecessary and poorly planned and executed. I don't agree with us remaining there indefinitely (which is what we seem to be on the path toward).

My husband will be deploying to Iraq this summer and will be there for a year. Honestly, I don't like any deployment because a) I miss him. A year is a loooong time for a family to be apart and

I worry very much about his safety. I do expect him to deploy, though. That's his job. I am proud of the work he does, and as a medic he is able to get hands on learning that he couldn't get stateside as well as perform medical procedures that he doesn't get the opportunity to perform here. Here at home there is plenty of work for him to do, but his true job is created by war and disaster.

I don't think it's fair to dismiss the opinions of our fighting force and chalk it up to "bitching about having to work"...many Soldiers love their jobs and love being in the military. Perhaps some of these polled Soldiers simply don't think it's beneficial for us to remain in Iraq. They're on the ground there, they see things we don't. I give the opinion of a Soldier who's been to Iraq a lot more credence than I do the opinion of a TV pundit perched in a pricey plush chair inside a nice air-conditioned building with his thinning hair in a comb-over and wearing a several thousand dollar suit.

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Well, I'm in Iraq right now, and I'll admit that I've seen samples of both groups - those who don't want to be here, and those that do. Not sure if it's a huge majority one way or the other. I know that the one SGT who is actually supporting my team's efforts here is not only not in a rush to get back, he is actively looking for a way to stay here longer. He believes in the mission, and loves being able to do real-world stuff (as opposed to washing vehicles back in the US). I think that ShadowWar and Stutefish both make good points though, in that we don't know details about the polls, and we don't have the whole story. A guy may answer the question "Do you want to go home within the next 12 months?" with a resounding YES!, because HE/SHE as an individual does want to go home, but may believe the mission should go on. Also, on a one-year rotation that most of these troops are on, asking guys here if they want to go home by the end of the year is essentially asking them if they want to stay BEYOND the year that they are supposed to be here (since they would be going home by the end of the year anyway). The response by most would be no, of course. They are willing to give their year, but want to go home after that, and let the next guy pull his fair share too.

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I think most of you are looking at this in a different light than I am.

Obviously the soldiers want to personally go home. Anytime I was deployed, I wanted to go home too.

I look at this poll as the soldiers wanting the war to end in general.

The detailed results of the poll have now been released by Zogby. Here are some excerpts;

Le Moyne College/Zogby Poll shows just one in five troops want to heed Bush call to stay “as long as they are needed”
While 58% say mission is clear, 42% say U.S. role is hazy
Plurality believes Iraqi insurgents are mostly homegrown
Almost 90% think war is retaliation for Saddam’s role in 9/11, most don’t blame Iraqi public for insurgent attacks
Majority of troops oppose use of harsh prisoner interrogation
Plurality of troops pleased with their armor and equipment

“Ninety-three percent said that removing weapons of mass destruction is not a reason for U.S. troops being there,” said Pollster John Zogby, President and CEO of Zogby International. “Instead, that initial rationale went by the wayside and, in the minds of 68% of the troops, the real mission became to remove Saddam Hussein.” Just 24% said that “establishing a democracy that can be a model for the Arab World" was the main or a major reason for the war. Only small percentages see the mission there as securing oil supplies (11%) or to provide long-term bases for US troops in the region (6%).

The survey included 944 military respondents interviewed at several undisclosed locations throughout Iraq. The names of the specific locations and specific personnel who conducted the survey are being withheld for security purposes. Surveys were conducted face-to-face using random sampling techniques. The margin of error for the survey, conducted Jan. 18 through Feb. 14, 2006, is +/- 3.3 percentage points.

Like I said, I understand that they want to go home. I just find it odd how 2 months ago anyone who suggested we withdraw were labeled as traitors, and now several prominent conservatives, and the troops themselves are saying that there should be a timeline for ending the war.

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It never matters to the warriors if they agre or disagree with the "mission" they do what is asked.

"Asked"?!

I just find it odd how 2 months ago anyone who suggested we withdraw were labeled as traitors, and now several prominent conservatives, and the troops themselves are saying that there should be a timeline for ending the war.

I find the results inevitable. Murtha knew what he was talking about.

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It shows that Bush is out of touch with almost all Amereicans except some of the Bloggers on JoeUser.

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Daiwa

Join Date 07/2001

+351

This is supposed to be eye-opening or somehow surprising? The MSM & the left have been working their collective asses off to undermine the morale of our troops since the beginning and now they trot out a poll (which we all know can be pure BS - after all, Zogby had Kerry the winner, big) which says they've succeeded. Boy, I bet they're feelin' proud.

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I guess Zogby should ask another question, just to put this one in perspective...

"If you could be discharged today (with the same credit and benefits completing your enlistment), would you accept it?"

Then just think of the headline...

"72% of military want out now". ;~D

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Have you ever spent a full year at the office without leaving or seeing your loved ones?

No analogy or comparison is accurate in all its details.

My point is that the author of the article is trying to imply that wanting a job to be over with so I can go home is the same as not wanting to do the job, or not believing that the job should be done by me before I go home.

We know from personal experience that this is a false implication.

That is why I also pointed out that the article and the survey don't tell us what percentage of troops are committed to staying, even though they'd prefer to live in a happy world of flowers and rainbows and unicorns, where nothing bad ever happens and they are never required to leave their loved ones to go in harm's way.

I mean, you said it yourself: you and your husband's desire to not have him go to Iraq doesn't actually map to a desire to not do the job. It doesn't seem fair, somehow, that you should start by saying that my experiences can't help me to understand your situation, and then go on to agree with what my experiences had already told me.

I don't think it's fair of you to imply that people who have not been soldiers are incapable of understanding concepts like duty and sacrifice. It's not true, and acting like it is true will serve to isolate you from your fellow citizens, rather than deepening your relationships with them.

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Ditto Modman's reply.

Revolutionary War: Many volunteer troops left service after their six months agreement was up. Washington had to talk as many as possible of them into staying, and made moves to officially extend the agreed time of service.

Civil War: Many troops who fought at First Manassas (Bull Run), the first major, all-out battle, went home, having said they'd "seen enough".

From then on, it was pretty much "sign here", and they had you.
Though, I'm quite sure the troops who fought in WW1, 2, Korea, Vietnam and Desert Storm thoroughly enjoyed their time in the military, what with the soothing sound of the flying ordinance and cooling showers of blood. I betcha they didin't ever want to go home.

Oh, and is that ~~cough--propagandistic--cough~~ picture supposed to be a depressed soldier who just wants his mommy and to go home? Looks to me like he might just be resting after a hard day of supporting the mission and killing insurgents.

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stutefish: You caught me. I'm a military-supremacist. Silly civilians, opinions are for Soldiers.

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Yes, you're all right. The poll is BS. We shouldn't pay any attention to what the soldiers actually think or say, only the administration or bloggers can speak for them.

Oh, and is that ~~cough--propagandistic--cough~~ picture supposed to be a depressed soldier who just wants his mommy and to go home? Looks to me like he might just be resting after a hard day of supporting the mission and killing insurgents.

No, that picture is not to represent a depressed soldier. Perhaps a tired one, but not depressed.

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Heh. I wouldn't go so far as to say you are a military supremacist, TW.

But I do think you may have some military-supremacist tendencies, and that sometimes these tendencies interfere with your ability to understand other points of view.

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Daiwa

Join Date 07/2001

+351

Yes, you're all right. The poll is BS.

No, davad, you miss the point. I have no doubt many of those guys & gals would jump at the chance to come home - that's a no brainer. Any conflict will wear on the combatants over time. The poll validates nothing and contributes nothing substantive to the discussion. Our policies & strategies should not be governed or influenced by such polls, given the ease with which they can be directed or manipulated to produce any desired result.

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My point is that the author of the article is trying to imply that wanting a job to be over with so I can go home is the same as not wanting to do the job, or not believing that the job should be done by me before I go home.

You're not nearly as good at telepathy as you'd like to believe, because that's not what I'm trying to imply at all. My point, which I reiterated a couple times is that a couple months ago anyone who spoke of timelines or deadlines was considered guilty of treason. But now, a lot of people (the soldiers included) are saying enough is enough...but they're not being called out for it like Democrats/Liberals were.

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The poll validates nothing and contributes nothing substantive to the discussion. Our policies & strategies should not be governed or influenced by such polls, given the ease with which they can be directed or manipulated to produce any desired result.

It doesn't contribute anything to the discussion to know that only 58% of the soldiers think their mission is clear?

It doesn't contribute anything to the discussion to know that a "Plurality believes Iraqi insurgents are mostly homegrown", and not coming from other countries as we've been told repeatedly by the administration?

It doesn't contribute anything to the discussion to know that "Almost 90% think war is retaliation for Saddam’s role in 9/11", in spite of the administration telling us it's about freedom and democracy?

I guess nothing the men and women who are actually doing the fighting contributes to the discussion. They should just shut the hell up and go back to taking bullets, while people who've never stared down someone who wants to kill them tell them what the discussion should be about.

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It's like I used to tell troops in Desert Storm when their griping about no time line or rotation schedule...

"For Active Duty troops in WWII and Korea, a "tour" was 3 years, so unless your tour looks like it's going to be longer than what they had to deal with, I'll just take it as normal soldier griping."

After all, "a griping soldier's a happy soldier"... right? :~D

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Daiwa

Join Date 07/2001

+351

Except I don't "know" any of that from this or any other poll, davad. And your characterization of what I would have soldiers do is yours, not mine.

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