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She can't take it anymore, Captain!

As some have noticed, we've been pretty much living in the forums.  The support team has been keeping statistical track of how many users run into problem X, Y, Z.

In our non-game stuff, any serious problem that affects more than 1% of the user base is considered serious. Anything that affects more than 5% of the user base is considered critical.

One problem that has fit just over the serious but just below the critical has been game crashes.  And the logs have confused us because they don't make sense.  Why would these people have the game crash? Crashing should be reproduceable to some extent.

And yet, here we are with about 2.5% of users running into interittent crashing. 

The update (1.0D1) made the game better for most people because it fixed bugs that were found. But for some people, it actually crashes on them more than 1.0D - digital release).  Why? We had done some performance optimizations but it's really straight forward stuff.

But then..

Hmm...

During development, one of our mantras was to force everyone to run and test on lower end hardware so that we could "know their pain".  Too many games come out these days that require state of the art hardware to run.  So we mostly played and tested on lower end hardware. (not exclusively by any means, I did all my AI testing on a state of the art machine with an ATI X1800 in it).

But we noticed something in the logs -- most of the people who had these random crashing issues had really REALLY good computers.  A statistical anomaly.  A couple of people noted that the game runs their GPU very hot. VERY hot.

This week I've been playing the game and monitored the temperature on my ATI Control Panel applet (which, coincidentally, is built using licensed Stardock technology from the other side of the company <g>).  My GPU's temperature was 85C!  That's really hot!

But it's no biggie for me.  I have a Dell, it's got 50 fans on it. But what would happen on a machine that wasn't as well vented? I know what would happen: The game would start crashing -- randomly.  And it would happen relatively quickly because it reaches that high temperature within 10 minutes give or take.

So why don't other games do this?  That depends on the game of course.  Some games, like Halo, throttle their FPS. Other games simply don't use nearly as many video card features do.

I know strategy games are notorious for crappy graphics, but GalCiv II uses it all. I mean ALL OF IT.  Specular Lighting? Check. Bump Mapping? Check. Zillions of lighting passes? Check. Stuff I don't even begin to understand? Check.

If you read the entry that showed a screenshot of that Bird of Prey in teh game, that should tell you somethign about the engine.  One of my graphics guys told me that model may have over a million polygons.

The art team found a whole bunch of Star Trek models that were designed for video production (i.e. NOT for being displayed in real time).  They literally had 20 different ships in the game, each with an absurd number of polies. They ran.  To put it in perspective, a typical ship in GalCiv II only has around 600 polygons.  So there is a lot of room to grow.

Which brings us back to our heating problem.  What can be done?  The answer it seems to me is frame rate throttling.  So that's what I did:

if(ulElapsedMilliSeconds < 10 && bThrrotleOoption == TRUE)
    Sleep(5);
EnterCriticalSection(&g_csD3DDevice);
Draw3D();
LeaveCriticalSection(&g_csD3DDevice);

By doing this, my temperature stayed at around a more normal 65C.   We could probably be even more stringent.  I mean, if the time between the last frame is less than 10 that means the game's running at >100fps.  Realistically, anything over say 40 to 50fps is probably pointless.

But this way, people's machines will stay cooler.  And there will be another benefit: Laptop users again.  I'd like to put in a thing that lets us REALLY throttle it for low power usage.  I.e. >25fps is throttled (optionally).  This way, I could play the game on my ThinkPad all the way from Michigan to California on a plane trip.

 

55,492 views 45 replies
Reply #26 Top
Yes anti-aliasing can be hard on some cards. Most modern cards try to give you anti-aliasing for free....that is you can run it without a performance hit, but that obviously isn't entirely true. Turning off AA is a good idea if you are having problems.
Reply #27 Top
If you get a crash when the game saves, PLEASE PLEASE send us the debug.err along with using Smart Exception to send us the info it has (Smart Exception can be found in the "Free stuff" area in Stardock Central).


I'll send the file when I get a chance. (I have three very small children, so I don't get much opportunity to use the computer.) However, I need to know where to send the file to, and where I can find it.

Thanks,

Marty
Reply #28 Top
it wont effect me and my crappy laptop but for the benefit of these people i think u should make the fps variable like in many first person shooters *cough* halo *cough cough*

that way i can get a non self combusting computer and mr i have an amazing gpu and cpu can have his/her 100 fps + if they rly think its necessary.
it may be more work but u shouldnt hard code a limit in......thats just silly
Reply #29 Top
[quote ] ehh, when it get's hot it's fan's speed will be increased which sounds as it is about to be airborne )

I used to have that problem with my computer. I did a little research, and found a few inexpensive ways to quiet my computer. You interested?

Reply #30 Top
it wont effect me and my crappy laptop but for the benefit of these people i think u should make the fps variable like in many first person shooters *cough* halo *cough cough*

that way i can get a non self combusting computer and mr i have an amazing gpu and cpu can have his/her 100 fps + if they rly think its necessary.
it may be more work but u shouldnt hard code a limit in......thats just silly


indeedy! if adding a FPS cap to the graphics options page would be too much hassle (or you don't want to do that until the source of the problem is confirmed) then a registry key would be a low-impact way to implement a variable cap?

the cap sounds good, but please do make it variable! one size never fits all... any hard coded limit is going to be wrong for some fraction of the community.
Reply #31 Top
If you get a crash when the game saves, PLEASE PLEASE send us the debug.err along with using Smart Exception to send us the info it has (Smart Exception can be found in the "Free stuff" area in Stardock Central).


It is posted now:
Link

Reply #32 Top
Ran the beta patch and game ran much smoother and a bit longer ; still crashed, I've emailed smart exception files so you can determine if its part of the heat related problem. Maybe a crash every three hours is my PC's way of saying
get up and do something besides GC2
Reply #33 Top
I would agree with 100+ fps being a bit much as someone said about X2, If the benchmark comes back telling you 140 avg. fps then dude you really need to up the graphics.
I'm good with anything between 20 and 30 fps
Reply #34 Top
I can confirm massive (>20C) heat increases on my high end card, but the game runs so smoothly and prettily that I don't care as long as it doesn't cause any damage. I think it would be fine if you capped the fram rate to the monitor's refresh rate, so you don't lose aeven the slightest bit of performance. Speaking of which, has anyone tried to run it with VSync enabled in the nvidia/ati config, and seen if the temps are lower?
Reply #35 Top

ehh, when it get's hot it's fan's speed will be increased which sounds as it is about to be airborne )
I used to have that problem with my computer. I did a little research, and found a few inexpensive ways to quiet my computer. You interested?



Always welcome
Reply #36 Top
Aha!

This could explain why the updated GalCiv2 crashed yesterday and my computer was hotter than it has ever been before (and thats hot.. 2 x SLI 6800 ultra cards..)...

How I can fix this issue is another measure.. You said FPS throttling.. is that implemented or do I need to do some stuff?

Reply #37 Top
There's a ZIP file in this thread that has a test build.
Reply #38 Top
Hmm, that would explain some oddness I saw when playing yesterday. The graphics overall are amazingly smooth, but sometimes when I was sitting in the shipyard window and looking at various ships I could actually hear the fan in the back of my computer (its thermally controlled and usually noiseless) and I noticed a bit of stuttering as I rotated models. I guess my system handles overtemps a bit more gracefully than the people who keep crashing.
Reply #39 Top
Couldn't just enabling vsync largely solve the overheating issue? My GF6600GT with vsync disabled routinely breaches 150fps in this game, vsync limits it to 75. Either way, my video card rarely shows signs of overheating, which is strange in and of itself, because any other game I play on this rig causes my video card to overheat. I have to play Civ4 with a desk fan blowing cold air into the case to keep my card from overheating, yet with GC2 it's no problem.
Reply #40 Top

ehh, when it get's hot it's fan's speed will be increased which sounds as it is about to be airborne

I used to have that problem with my computer. I did a little research, and found a few inexpensive ways to quiet my computer. You interested?


Always welcome


I wonder if there's a good place to start a thread on this. These official forums are organized in an alien fashion.
I have five options I can see right now. Maybe I'll make up my mind shortly.
1). Seek Frogboy's permission to hijack his thread.
2). Hijack this thread now, and seek forgiveness later.
3). Off-topic.
4). PC Gaming-Modding
5). Off-forum.
Reply #41 Top
You want an inexpensive way to cool your rig?

Buy a few cans of compressed air, and spray out your PC every couple weeks.
Reply #42 Top
Oh yes, please give us an option to throttle framerate. I play exclusively on my laptop and I have a lot of problems with both battery and overheating. I have to run the game with my processor set to mid power to keep it from overheating and shutting down and would love to have the option to run at full speed and not worry about random shut down. You deserve much applause. I am very impressed with the GC2 development team, very impressed.
Reply #43 Top
Well this explains my crashes. Desktop = no problem. Laptop = crash on shipyard screen.
Reply #44 Top
Best way to solve overheat problem with stock coolers? Buy an aftermarket cooler, or sand down the part of your videocards cooler in contact with the die with some fine sandpaper.

Im looking at the contact part of my X1900s cooler (i run a watercooled rig) and there's grooves as deep as those in an LP record. What do you think that does for thermal transfer?
Reply #45 Top
Interesting. I had noticed that my laptop had been running warm (GeForce 7800, Pentium M 2.13ghz), but hadn't had crashes so I didn't think much of it. The game has run very well for me actually. So the throttle-down option just lowers the frame rate? It doesn't turn off the bells and whistles that make it look so nice?