When is America going to realise that socialism is coming back in and is the way forward?

Zoomba is on the button. A rather high percentage of kids leaving the nest these days expect it to be a "lateral" move at minimum. If finances are a problem, the healthy young think nothing of foregoing health insurance premiums in favor of Dish Network, NFL PrimeTicket, NBA SeasonPass, Oprah's book club, the LA Fitness membership, not to mention the plasma TV payments. Thanks to the "safety net" it's no problem for them.

There was a time when there was no significant healthcare crisis, you know. It was, oddly enough, prior to 1965. Our prosperity since WWII has left us so spoiled & dependent - we have no clue how good we have it.

Cheers,
Daiwa

HMOs failed miserably... you claim HSAs are an abomination.... WHAT DO YOU SUGGEST Col Gene!? In all your brilliance and ability to call every decision made by the Govt a bad one... where's your insight into how to solve this problem? And don't say the defecit... we're talking about a separate issue here. How would you solve the health insurance issue?

Or are you only capable of pointing out bad ideas and have no ability to propose solutions?

I'll admit the HSA deal is a bit of a raw one considering we're still dealing the HMO inflated prices, but now have to cover more out of pocket. We got ourselves into a nasty situation with HMOs so any change is going to be rough.

Zoomba is again correct. The government subsidized HMO's for years making us all think managed care was "less expensive" - now that the bait has been taken, the switch is on. Is anyone really surprised that, given a system that encouraged folks to seek out and utilize healthcare resources with little to no financial consequences to themselves, we've "suddenly" got a problem with growing healthcare costs? Does anyone really believe making healthcare "free" will lessen demand for healthcare? The growth of and control granted to healthcare corporations has resulted in, suprise, healthcare being all about the corporation rather than the care.

Cheers,
Daiwa

Healthcare is not free. The question is who can and will pay for healthcare. To propose a solution that says people without the resources will put money they do not have into an account is nuts. First, people at the low end on the income scale either do not pay taxes or the actual benefit is in the 10% range given the lowest tax rate. So what Bush is saying is that if your premium is $300 per month after the tax saving at a 10% bracket it will only cost $270 and you save $30. That is his solution.

Help would be a tax credit to business to help offset part of the cost of providing health care. Help would be to provide a direct subsidy to individuals where their employer DOES not provide health care. What Bush is suggesting does almost NOTHING to help the 46 million Americans without health care.

It's going to be painful at first, but as we move off the HMOs, and as people have to pay for the care they receive, you'll see a shift where people only go to the doctor when they need to. This drops gold-plating off the map, this forces the health care market to realign to pricing that is reasonable. When you could go to the doctor 10 times a day and pay only $5 out of pocket each time, the docs were still getting the same amount of money. They could up their fees to the insurance companies and the consumer wouldn't see it unless their insurer upped their rates. And even then, a rate increase spreads the cost so far that the average yearly jump wouldn't ever be enough per person to bother too much.

Health care needs to be subjected to supply and demand rules again... It needs to be treated like an actual industry to force pricing to come in line with what is reasonable for the service rendered. Without insurance, a 20min doc visit will go a few hundred dollars... that's simply beyond reasonable. HSAs place more responsibility with the consumer... which is where it belongs.

ANd while it is unfortunate that the result is that health care becomes more burdensome to lower income people, you have to remember that affordable healthcare isn't a right. Clinics and emergency rooms have special considerations for those of low income. Sure, it's not top-rate care, but that's the breaks of a non-socialized system.

And a tax incentive is simply not going to work. Those that want to offer assistance with insurance will, those that don't, won't. You won't change the distribution too much from what it was before since HMOs actually cost companies a TON more to support than then new HSAs will... in fact if anything since the cost is shifted like it is, I bet you'll see more companies start offering it since it will be more economical to them to do so. Now, McDonalds isn't going to suddenly offer insurance to their cashiers, but then again, I don't think they were before anyway and probably had little inclination to do so.

Increase the contribution from the employee, you decrease the level needed from the employer, as a result the employer can offer more people insurance than it could before. And believe it or not, companies are generally interested in keeping their employees healthy and happy, it makes a lot of financial sense to do so.

Seems I'm attracted to your writings Colonel. Health savings accounts are a good thing. Set up similar to an IRA or a 401(k), or similar savings plan, it would work quite well. Employer fund matching would work. Cutting a check directly to a physician or hospital is almost always less expensive than what they would bill the healthcare provider or the government. I know, I've been doing it for almost ten years.

It benefits both the employer and the employee. The money the employer currently contributes per employee to healthcare, especially in a small business, can nearly match an employee's paycheck, especially in manual labor. If the employer doesn't have to pay these dues, quite a bit of which doesn't get spent by the company or its workers, much of it will be added to wages, which, in turn will be placed into these savings accounts, growing at an interest rate similar to a passsbook savings account (or higher?). Unlike insurance, where you pay in and may not need it for years, and still have to pay a deductible, this stays in an account for this purpose.


Barring catastrophic or terminal illness, it works. It saves the employer and employee money, it reduces the paperwork and red tape for the hospitals and it pays the medical provider in a timely fashion, thereby further reducing the cost of medical expenses. In the event of terminal diseases, there are insurance companies that specialize in insurance for just such an occassion, just like life or car insurance.

Savings plans work, simply because they remove the government and bureaucrats from the equation. They remove a large, soon to be unbearable financial albatross from employers. And that is a good thing. Look at Detroit and the car manufacturers. It's really no different than the pension plans that GM and Ford are having difficulties with.

I'm not sure what your take on this is, but if you really are a Colonel, then this really has no impact on you, unless you really aren't. Because the tax revenue from service members, veterans and civilians are paying for your healthcare. That is, unless you are too discriminating to use the VA, Colonel. Are you?

drmiler
I have no idea where you live or what you spend for housing, transportation but to assert that people making 20-35K will set aside 4-5 thousand to fund health savings accounts is pure fantasy. Hell the savings rate is non excitant even with people at higher incomes then these. Just watch this idea go the way of the Bush Social Security ideas. His ideas do not and will not solve the issues pure and simple.

If you have the income you claim and supoport Bush and his policies you are truly DUMB!

drmiler I have no idea where you live or what you spend for housing, transportation but to assert that people making 20-35K will set aside 4-5 thousand to fund health savings accounts is pure fantasy. Hell the savings rate is non excitant even with people at higher incomes then these. Just watch this idea go the way of the Bush Social Security ideas. His ideas do not and will not solve the issues pure and simple. If you have the income you claim and supoport Bush and his policies you are truly DUMB!

YOU'RE the dumb one here. WE ARE ALREADY DOING IT! If we can do it on what little we make then there is absolutely no way the economy is as bad as you seem to think it is. Do you need to see scans of my wife's paycheck to prove it?

Companies that offer no healthcare will have a harder time attracting new employees, the market takes care of those sorts of places on its own usually.

UNREAL!

ing catastrophic or terminal illness, it works.

Aye, there's the rub.

In the event of terminal diseases, there are insurance companies that specialize in insurance for just such an occassion, just like life or car insurance.

Provided you were healthy when signing up.

You are soooo full of it! My wife and I only make about 35K a year. And it "already costs us $300 a month for health coverage. So again your specious arguement goes down in flames.

Are you willing to risk forgoing the insurance for a savings plan?--God forbid you or your wife are seriously ill after only a year of contributions.