U S Economy NOT Improving for the American Family



Yesterday the Dept of Labor reported that after inflation, the Average Hourly Earnings DROPPED .5% in 2005. That followed a .7% drop in 2004. Thus, during the past two years the Average Hourly Wage has DROPPED 1.2%. That means that for the average family the economy is WORSE not BETTER as Bush and company claim. The report said, "People see energy prices going up and they get a little worried about what they can afford to spend". Analysts said the wage weakness was having an impact on consumer confidence. This coupled with record high credit card balances being carried by the average American family show the Economic Boom that Bush claims is taking place is an illusion for the average American! The only place where a Boom is taking place is on the income statements of SOME companies such as Big Oil and in the net worth of the wealthy!
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Reply #1 Top
WHY is the Dept of Labor Bush Bashing?
Reply #2 Top
all i have got to say is: Thank God I am not average!!

our wages have gone up....my wife was promoted....I just got the highest raise you can get where I work. We bought a house this year. We are getting 6100 dollars back in taxes. I am on the verge of getting promoted also.

Oh, and our heating bill for our house has been floating around 200-250 dollars a month in the winter, and that is keeping the house at a nice 75 degrees.

Like I said, Thank God I am not the average American. And, one more thing....we made 25k last year total....we are making it decently on hard work and a consistency to pay our bills as best we can. Maybe the "average" American you refer to should follow suit?
Reply #3 Top
Thus, during the past two years the Average Hourly Wage has DROPPED 1.2%. That means that for the average family the economy is WORSE not BETTER as Bush and company claim.


Wow...

1.2 percent. The worst economy since Hoover. Depression is coming.
Reply #4 Top
More people getting jobs, I guess that would make things better for people.


U.S. Initial Jobless Claims Fall to Lowest in 5 Years (Update1)

Jan. 19 (Bloomberg) -- The number of Americans filing first- time claims for unemployment benefits unexpectedly fell last week to the lowest since April 2000, evidence that companies are holding on to more workers to meet demand.

Initial jobless claims fell by 36,000 to 271,000 in the week ended Jan. 14, the Labor Department said today in Washington. Weekly claims averaged 332,000 in 2005, down from 343,000 a year earlier. The four-week moving average, a less volatile measure, also fell to the lowest in more than five years.

Companies including Polo Ralph Lauren Corp. are adding workers, brightening prospects for wage growth that will support consumer spending and economic expansion. There are signs of ``continued, if generally moderate, increases in employment,'' the Federal Reserve said yesterday in its beige book report, a regional survey of businesses by the 12 Fed district banks.
Reply #5 Top
all i have got to say is: Thank God I am not average!!


As I have always said, every average persons goals should be to move up from average, that way non of this that bothers Col so much will affect them. Instead of wanting people to better themselves he wants the Govt to support the "poor" lives they choose to live.
Reply #6 Top
I'd love to meet these "average" americans that are getting the shaft left and right. I must be leagues above average considering that I was able to get a job shortly out of college, one that pays pretty well too.

My friends who still work hourly jobs are doing OK too. Hell, I've got a friend that in the past 2 years got married, had a baby, graduated from college, bought a house and got a job (yes, in that order too) and is expecting twins in the spring. His wife was a grad student so she wasn't earning much. They have two decent cars and he doesn't make a fortune.

The lesson here is that despite any economy, be it good or bad, the success of the individual is laregely dependent on that individual. You do what you have to to make ends meet, and short of a massive depression (a 1.7% drop does not count), a failure to work and make money is the person's failure, not the governments'

But I know the response here... those that make it despite the economy are just "lucky" and not representative of the "Average American"
Reply #7 Top
I've been predicting for years that globalization means average wages worldwide will go down. I'm not at all surprised that average wages in America are declining slightly. I'm also not sure what can be done about it, without being even more unfair to poverty-struggling workers in other, less fortunate countries.

This is why I'm more interested in American unemployment rates. As long as everybody is working, and they're getting paid more on average than workers in other countries, things are about as good as they're going to get.
Reply #8 Top
For the average American to be unable to buy as much this year as they did last year with their income is not economic growth. As far as jobs are concerned it depends of how much they pay and what benefits are included. IF A PERSON HAS A JOB(S) THAT DO NOT PROVIDE THE INCOME NEEDED TO LIVE, THAT IS NOT A SOLUTION. In that case the person can charge the difference on their credit card until they reach their credit limit. They will then be acting just like the federal government that borrows $1.5 Billion dollars EVERY DAY!
Reply #9 Top
As I have always said, every average persons goals should be to move up from average, that way non of this that bothers Col so much will affect them. Instead of wanting people to better themselves he wants the Govt to support the "poor" lives they choose to live.
"Unkindest cut of all." There are some people other than the "average," you know, simply do not have the wherewithal to pull themselves up and need a hand.


This is why I'm more interested in American unemployment rates. As long as everybody is working, and they're getting paid more on average than workers in other countries, things are about as good as they're going to get.

Not much national pride if you set standards by what the prevailing wage rate in the third world gets.

Gene: Why do you bother?
Reply #10 Top
Our trade policies for example are encouraging business to move good paying jobs to other countries. At first it was manufacturing jobs that requires a skill and impacted the blue collar workers. Now it is Tec jobs that require college educations that are leaving the United States. It is the policies we are following that encourage BUSINESS to move these jobs. We lose a job paying $25 per hour and add one paying $8 per hour and say we are even. What BS. It is the policies like the so called Free Trade policies that failed in the Clinton years that Bush EXPANDED and it becomes a bigger failure and impacts more Americans. That is the reason why Bush and his policies are harming America. They benefit the Bottom line of SOME companies and kill the working Americans. !
Reply #11 Top
For the average American to be unable to buy as much this year as they did last year with their income is not economic growth. As far as jobs are concerned it depends of how much they pay and what benefits are included. IF A PERSON HAS A JOB(S) THAT DO NOT PROVIDE THE INCOME NEEDED TO LIVE, THAT IS NOT A SOLUTION. In that case the person can charge the difference on their credit card until they reach their credit limit. They will then be acting just like the federal government that borrows $1.5 Billion dollars EVERY DAY!


What is it that people are not buying col? Retail sales are doing fine. The energy costs are being absorbed. 1.7 percent is not affecting anybodies life.


We lose a job paying $25 per hour and add one paying $8 per hour and say we are even. What BS. It is the policies like the so called Free Trade policies that failed in the Clinton years that Bush EXPANDED and it becomes a bigger failure and impacts more Americans. That is the reason why Bush and his policies are harming America. They benefit the Bottom line of SOME companies and kill the working Americans. !


Please show us proof of this col. You sound like a John Kerry commercial today. I already showed you that your rhetoric about the jobs not paying as much was false.
Reply #12 Top
They are buying but are charging it because they do NOT have the earned income they need. The average Credit Card balance is at an ALL TIME HIGH at over $8,600 per family. In the mid 1990's that same amount was $3,300 per average family. Here are a FEW articles:

Companies in India celebrate "loss of American jobs"
by Mike Crane

In our previous article we reported how various companies in India were employed by the Republican National Committee and the Bush Re-election campaign (see: India claims big election victory and laughs at Americans).

One interesting comment that was documented in that article was:

As Vivek Paul, Wipro VC, said after the Presidential poll, “The elections are over and so is the rhetoric; it will be easier for American corporations to step out with their outsourcing plans.”

Well a little research has found some estimates from within India about what that meant. First and foremost, it means that India is celebrating the "loss of American jobs." Folks, that is the jobs of friends, family or perhaps even your own.

Specifically on November 4, with time zone changes, roughly a day after the polls close the following was published in the India Times:

The industry is quietly celebrating that outsourcing and loss of American jobs will not be the hot-button issues any more.

And that is why they believe that "it will be easier for American corporations to step out with their outsourcing plans." Does this mean that American companies put their plans on "hold" to minimize the impact on a close election?

But the folks in India gloat a little more:

Of the documented jobs that left the US for other countries in January through March 2004, 23,396 went to Mexico, 8,283 to China, 3,895 to India, 4,419 to other Asian countries, 5,511 to Latin American countries other than Mexico and 2,933 to other countries.

A brief look at these numbers show what they call a documented American job loss of 48,237 for the first quarter of 2004. On an annual basis this would be 192,968 American jobs. And they expect American companies to now - step out - with their outsourcing plans.

Some will say that 192,968 jobs is not very many. But as you will see in coming articles that is just what is called BPO and is not the whole picture.

Lets look at the effect of three policies that affect American jobs:

1. Outsourcing - In this article it has been shown that it is at least close to 200,00 jobs a year for the BPO segment and expected to increase
2. H1-B visa program - allows high tech foreigners to take American jobs here without being counted in immigration totals. Used by many companies to train personnel for their foreign outsourcing programs. There are roughly a million H1-B visas active today.
3. Legal immigration of about 1 million a year and illegal immigration of about 3 million a year resulting in lower American wages and increased social costs.

Ladies and gentlemen, you are paying the salaries of the elected and appointed officials who are doing this to you. Is this what you want to pay for? If so, why are you reading material on this web site?

If not, you are being ignored!

It should be obvious to all that this trend can not continue forever. Are there any signs that it is getting better:

A recent study of A T Kearney shows that nine out of 10 chief executives wanted to outsource to India. 25 % of the respondents wanted IT and auto component work to be given to India, 15 % favoured China and 13 % Mexico.

That should answer that question beyond a reasonable doubt. Interesting that 15% of the outsourcing chief executives favor Red China! Remember these are the folks that make the big campaign contributions that have so much influence on many of your elected officials. How will you feel when YOUR job is sent to Red China?

If you do not agree with these policies you are being ignored and your elected officials are representing special interests more than you! If you believe that this is a serious problem it is time to get involved now. The longer you wait, the harder it will be stop these destructive trends.

The BPO and your elected officials are doing offshore calculus, are you?

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BPO biggies do offshore calculus

TIMES NEWS NETWORK[ THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 04, 2004 02:13:09 PM]

India’s silicon valley is delighted to move out of the limelight. The industry is quietly celebrating that outsourcing and loss of American jobs will not be the hot-button issues any more.

BPO bigwigs are already computing the gains from mega-offshoring plans on hold waiting for US presidential race to be over.

Though most of the industry majors refuse to comment on who will safeguard their interests better, they feel that economic benefits of transfer of jobs to low cost destinations will now overshadow the political rhetoric against outsourcing in the run up to the US poll.

The US presidential election was fueling the protests against job losses due to transfer of jobs.

“American law will remain the same and the outsourcing will go up irrespective of who wins. Already, we see our clients getting ready for bigger offshoring plans,’’ says head of a leading Delhi-based BPO firm. Insiders also feel the American clients might be more open to talk about their outsourcing plans to low-cost destinations like India now.

Though Kerry’s tax proposals that seek to end tax breaks for companies that ship jobs overseas could deter fence-sitter, analysts feel they are no more than short-term sentiment dampeners. After initially branding the shipping of jobs to countries like India and China as a threat to the US economy, Kerry has gone on record saying he can’t stop outsourcing.

Clearly, what is of greater concern is that a clear decision comes soon, irrespective of whether it favours Bush or Kerry. Though Bush is more popular, the $ 2.6 billion BPO industry is convinced that “it will soon be difficult to differentiate between Democrats and Republicans.

Obviously sector’s fate is closely tied up with the US elections, with US accounting for over 70 % of India’s IT exports. A recent study of A T Kearney shows that nine out of 10 chief executives wanted to outsource to India. 25 % of the respondents wanted IT and auto component work to be given to India, 15 % favoured China and 13 % Mexico.

Of the documented jobs that left the US for other countries in January through March 2004, 23,396 went to Mexico, 8,283 to China, 3,895 to India, 4,419 to other Asian countries, 5,511 to Latin American countries other than Mexico and 2,933 to other countries.

Rising Pressures in 'Job Loss' Recovery

February 6, 2004

As President Bush continues to ply wealthy campaign donors with tales of economic recovery, America’s families suffer from a harsher reality – a lagging job market, stagnant wages, and rising costs and household debt. The latest employment figures released today by the Bureau of Labor Statistics show that 112,000 jobs were created in January, certainly better than continued job losses but far from signs of strong and sustained labor market recovery. Given the weak job market, wages are basically flat and families are now forced to deal with increasing costs and a diminishing ability to afford them.

* President Bush has presided over the worst labor market recovery since World War II. However you cut the numbers, the Bush administration is on track to have one of the worst job records in modern history. Despite job growth for the past five months, there are still more than 2.3 million fewer jobs than at the start of the recession in March 2001. Compared to job growth in a typical recovery, employment was down more than 8.8 million jobs in January.
* Wealthy investors are enjoying high times while wages remain flat for most workers. For the 12-month period ending in December 2003, average hourly earnings grew by 2 percent in non-inflation adjusted terms – the second lowest annual increase since March 1986. Average weekly earnings rose by only 1.7 percent over the same period and inflation-adjusted hourly wages have increased by only 1 percent from the start of the recovery to December 2003, about half of their typical rate of increase in a recovery.
* The Bush administration’s policies do nothing for working families facing rising pressures. The weak labor market puts working families in a bind. As prices for important items such as health care and education continue to rise faster than other prices or wages, the ability of families to pay for these costs has declined. Households are forced to make up the difference by borrowing more and exposing themselves to greater risk. Since the start of the recession, consumer prices have risen 5.1 percent, but health care costs are up 12.5 percent and education 19.2 percent during the same period. Despite historically low interest rates, consumer debt burdens have reached a record high – household debt service was above 13 percent of disposable income in the past two and half years, the highest on record since the Fed began collecting the data in 1980. Permanent tax cuts for the top 2 percent of earners will do nothing to alleviate these burdens on America’s middle class.

Daily Talking Points is a product of the Center for American Progress, a non-partisan research and educational institute committed to progressive principles for a strong, just and free America.



Rising Pressures in 'Job Loss' Recovery

February 6, 2004

As President Bush continues to ply wealthy campaign donors with tales of economic recovery, America’s families suffer from a harsher reality – a lagging job market, stagnant wages, and rising costs and household debt. The latest employment figures released today by the Bureau of Labor Statistics show that 112,000 jobs were created in January, certainly better than continued job losses but far from signs of strong and sustained labor market recovery. Given the weak job market, wages are basically flat and families are now forced to deal with increasing costs and a diminishing ability to afford them.

* President Bush has presided over the worst labor market recovery since World War II. However you cut the numbers, the Bush administration is on track to have one of the worst job records in modern history. Despite job growth for the past five months, there are still more than 2.3 million fewer jobs than at the start of the recession in March 2001. Compared to job growth in a typical recovery, employment was down more than 8.8 million jobs in January.
* Wealthy investors are enjoying high times while wages remain flat for most workers. For the 12-month period ending in December 2003, average hourly earnings grew by 2 percent in non-inflation adjusted terms – the second lowest annual increase since March 1986. Average weekly earnings rose by only 1.7 percent over the same period and inflation-adjusted hourly wages have increased by only 1 percent from the start of the recovery to December 2003, about half of their typical rate of increase in a recovery.
* The Bush administration’s policies do nothing for working families facing rising pressures. The weak labor market puts working families in a bind. As prices for important items such as health care and education continue to rise faster than other prices or wages, the ability of families to pay for these costs has declined. Households are forced to make up the difference by borrowing more and exposing themselves to greater risk. Since the start of the recession, consumer prices have risen 5.1 percent, but health care costs are up 12.5 percent and education 19.2 percent during the same period. Despite historically low interest rates, consumer debt burdens have reached a record high – household debt service was above 13 percent of disposable income in the past two and half years, the highest on record since the Fed began collecting the data in 1980. Permanent tax cuts for the top 2 percent of earners will do nothing to alleviate these burdens on America’s middle class.

Daily Talking Points is a product of the Center for American Progress, a non-partisan research and educational institute committed to progressive principles for a strong, just and free America.

The Wal-Mart You Don't Know

The giant retailer's low prices often come with a high cost. Wal-Mart's relentless pressure can crush the companies it does business with and force them to send jobs overseas. Are we shopping our way straight to the unemployment line?
From: Issue 77 | December 2003 | Page 68 By: Charles Fishman Photographs by: Livia Corona

A gallon-sized jar of whole pickles is something to behold. The jar is the size of a small aquarium. The fat green pickles, floating in swampy juice, look reptilian, their shapes exaggerated by the glass. It weighs 12 pounds, too big to carry with one hand. The gallon jar of pickles is a display of abundance and excess; it is entrancing, and also vaguely unsettling. This is the product that Wal-Mart fell in love with: Vlasic's gallon jar of pickles.
Read more about Wal-Mart:

* The Man Who Said No to Wal-Mart
Companies want their products on the shelves of the world’s biggest retailer. Jim Wier wanted Wal-Mart to stop selling his Snapper mowers.
* Retooling Wal-Mart
To neutralize its critics, Wal-Mart must radically change its approach.
* Pulling Punches
CEO Lee Scott went on the record to fight Wal-Mart's bad rep. But his PR effort hit the mat.
* 60 Seconds with Mona Williams
She defends the world's biggest company against ethical charges -- meet Wal-Mart's head of PR.
* The Next Big (Legal) Thing?
America's largest private employer is in a lawsuit for discriminating against its female workers.

Wal-Mart 10 Steps to Turn Around Wal-Mart
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Wal-Mart priced it at $2.97--a year's supply of pickles for less than $3! "They were using it as a 'statement' item," says Pat Hunn, who calls himself the "mad scientist" of Vlasic's gallon jar. "Wal-Mart was putting it before consumers, saying, This represents what Wal-Mart's about. You can buy a stinkin' gallon of pickles for $2.97. And it's the nation's number-one brand."

Therein lies the basic conundrum of doing business with the world's largest retailer. By selling a gallon of kosher dills for less than most grocers sell a quart, Wal-Mart may have provided a ser-vice for its customers. But what did it do for Vlasic? The pickle maker had spent decades convincing customers that they should pay a premium for its brand. Now Wal-Mart was practically giving them away. And the fevered buying spree that resulted distorted every aspect of Vlasic's operations, from farm field to factory to financial statement.

Indeed, as Vlasic discovered, the real story of Wal-Mart, the story that never gets told, is the story of the pressure the biggest retailer relentlessly applies to its suppliers in the name of bringing us "every day low prices." It's the story of what that pressure does to the companies Wal-Mart does business with, to U.S. manufacturing, and to the economy as a whole. That story can be found floating in a gallon jar of pickles at Wal-Mart.

Wal-Mart is not just the world's largest retailer. It's the world's largest company--bigger than ExxonMobil, General Motors, and General Electric. The scale can be hard to absorb. Wal-Mart sold $244.5 billion worth of goods last year. It sells in three months what

number-two retailer Home Depot sells in a year. And in its own category of general merchandise and groceries, Wal-Mart no longer has any real rivals. It does more business than Target, Sears, Kmart, J.C. Penney, Safeway, and Kroger combined. "Clearly," says Edward Fox, head of Southern Methodist University's J.C. Penney Center for Retailing Excellence, "Wal-Mart is more powerful than any retailer has ever been." It is, in fact, so big and so furtively powerful as to have become an entirely different order of corporate being.

Wal-Mart wields its power for just one purpose: to bring the lowest possible prices to its customers. At Wal-Mart, that goal is never reached. The retailer has a clear policy for suppliers: On basic products that don't change, the price Wal-Mart will pay, and will charge shoppers, must drop year after year. But what almost no one outside the world of Wal-Mart and its 21,000 suppliers knows is the high cost of those low prices. Wal-Mart has the power to squeeze profit-killing concessions from vendors. To survive in the face of its pricing demands, makers of everything from bras to bicycles to blue jeans have had to lay off employees and close U.S. plants in favor of outsourcing products from overseas.

Of course, U.S. companies have been moving jobs offshore for decades, long before Wal-Mart was a retailing power. But there is no question that the chain is helping accelerate the loss of American jobs to low-wage countries such as China. Wal-Mart, which in the late 1980s and early 1990s trumpeted its claim to "Buy American," has doubled its imports from China in the past five years alone, buying some $12 billion in merchandise in 2002. That's nearly 10% of all Chinese exports to the United States.

One way to think of Wal-Mart is as a vast pipeline that gives non-U.S. companies direct access to the American market. "One of the things that limits or slows the growth of imports is the cost of establishing connections and networks," says Paul Krugman, the Princeton University economist. "Wal-Mart is so big and so centralized that it can all at once hook Chinese and other suppliers into its digital system. So--wham!--you have a large switch to overseas sourcing in a period quicker than under the old rules of retailing."

Steve Dobbins has been bearing the brunt of that switch. He's president and CEO of Carolina Mills, a 75-year-old North Carolina company that supplies thread, yarn, and textile finishing to apparel makers--half of which supply Wal-Mart. Carolina Mills grew steadily until 2000. But in the past three years, as its customers have gone either overseas or out of business, it has shrunk from 17 factories to 7, and from 2,600 employees to 1,200. Dobbins's customers have begun to face imported clothing sold so cheaply to Wal-Mart that they could not compete even if they paid their workers nothing.

"People ask, 'How can it be bad for things to come into the U.S. cheaply? How can it be bad to have a bargain at Wal-Mart?' Sure, it's held inflation down, and it's great to have bargains," says Dobbins. "But you can't buy anything if you're not employed. We are shopping ourselves out of jobs."

The gallon jar of pickles at Wal-Mart became a devastating success, giving Vlasic strong sales and growth numbers--but slashing its profits by millions of dollars.

There is no question that Wal-Mart's relentless drive to squeeze out costs has benefited consumers. The giant retailer is at least partly responsible for the low rate of U.S. inflation, and a McKinsey & Co. study concluded that about 12% of the economy's productivity gains in the second half of the 1990s could be traced to Wal-Mart alone.

There is also no question that doing business with Wal-Mart can give a supplier a fast, heady jolt of sales and market share. But that fix can come with long-term consequences for the health of a brand and a business. Vlasic, for example, wasn't looking to build its brand on a gallon of whole pickles. Pickle companies make money on "the cut," slicing cucumbers into spears and hamburger chips. "Cucumbers in the jar, you don't make a whole lot of money there," says Steve Young, a former vice president of grocery marketing for pickles at Vlasic, who has since left the company.

At some point in the late 1990s, a Wal-Mart buyer saw Vlasic's gallon jar and started talking to Pat Hunn about it. Hunn, who has also since left Vlasic, was then head of Vlasic's Wal-Mart sales team, based in Dallas. The gallon intrigued the buyer. In sales tests, priced somewhere over $3, "the gallon sold like crazy," says Hunn, "surprising us all." The Wal-Mart buyer had a brainstorm: What would happen to the gallon if they offered it nationwide and got it below $3? Hunn was skeptical, but his job was to look for ways to sell pickles at Wal-Mart. Why not?

And so Vlasic's gallon jar of pickles went into every Wal-Mart, some 3,000 stores, at $2.97, a price so low that Vlasic and Wal-Mart were making only a penny or two on a jar, if that. It was showcased on big pallets near the front of stores. It was an abundance of abundance. "It was selling 80 jars a week, on average, in every store," says Young. Doesn't sound like much, until you do the math: That's 240,000 gallons of pickles, just in gallon jars, just at Wal-Mart, every week. Whole fields of cucumbers were heading out the door.

For Vlasic, the gallon jar of pickles became what might be called a devastating success. "Quickly, it started cannibalizing our non-Wal-Mart business," says Young. "We saw consumers who used to buy the spears and the chips in supermarkets buying the Wal-Mart gallons. They'd eat a quarter of a jar and throw the thing away when they got moldy. A family can't eat them fast enough."

The gallon jar reshaped Vlasic's pickle business: It chewed up the profit margin of the business with Wal-Mart, and of pickles generally. Procurement had to scramble to find enough pickles to fill the gallons, but the volume gave Vlasic strong sales numbers, strong growth numbers, and a powerful place in the world of pickles at Wal-Mart. Which accounted for 30% of Vlasic's business. But the company's profits from pickles had shriveled 25% or more, Young says--millions of dollars.

The gallon was hoisting Vlasic and hurting it at the same time.

Young remembers begging Wal-Mart for relief. "They said, 'No way,' " says Young. "We said we'll increase the price"--even $3.49 would have helped tremendously--"and they said, 'If you do that, all the other products of yours we buy, we'll stop buying.' It was a clear threat." Hunn recalls things a little differently, if just as ominously: "They said, 'We want the $2.97 gallon of pickles. If you don't do it, we'll see if someone else might.' I knew our competitors were saying to Wal-Mart, 'We'll do the $2.97 gallons if you give us your other business.' " Wal-Mart's business was so indispensable to Vlasic, and the gallon so central to the Wal-Mart relationship, that decisions about the future of the gallon were made at the CEO level.

Finally, Wal-Mart let Vlasic up for air. "The Wal-Mart guy's response was classic," Young recalls. "He said, 'Well, we've done to pickles what we did to orange juice. We've killed it. We can back off.' " Vlasic got to take it down to just over half a gallon of pickles, for $2.79. Not long after that, in January 2001, Vlasic filed for bankruptcy--although the gallon jar of pickles, everyone agrees, wasn't a critical factor.

By now, it is accepted wisdom that Wal-Mart makes the companies it does business with more efficient and focused, leaner and faster. Wal-Mart itself is known for continuous improvement in its ability to handle, move, and track merchandise. It expects the same of its suppliers. But the ability to operate at peak efficiency only gets you in the door at Wal-Mart. Then the real demands start. The public image Wal-Mart projects may be as cheery as its yellow smiley-face mascot, but there is nothing genial about the process by which Wal-Mart gets its suppliers to provide tires and contact lenses, guns and underarm deodorant at every day low prices. Wal-Mart is legendary for forcing its suppliers to redesign everything from their packaging to their computer systems. It is also legendary for quite straightforwardly telling them what it will pay for their goods.

"We are one of Wal-Mart's biggest suppliers, and they are our biggest customer, by far. We have a great relationship. That's all I can say. Are we done now?"

John Fitzgerald, a former vice president of Nabisco, remembers Wal-Mart's reaction to his company's plan to offer a 25-cent newspaper coupon for a large bag of Lifesavers in advance of Halloween. Wal-Mart told Nabisco to add up what it would spend on the promotion--for the newspaper ads, the coupons, and handling--and then just take that amount off the price instead. "That isn't necessarily good for the manufacturer," Fitzgerald says. "They need things that draw attention."

It also is not unheard of for Wal-Mart to demand to examine the private financial records of a supplier, and to insist that its margins are too high and must be cut. And the smaller the supplier, one academic study shows, the greater the likelihood that it will be forced into damaging concessions. Melissa Berryhill, a Wal-Mart spokeswoman, disagrees: "The fact is Wal-Mart, perhaps like no other retailer, seeks to establish collaborative and mutually beneficial relationships with our suppliers."

For many suppliers, though, the only thing worse than doing business with Wal-Mart may be not doing business with Wal-Mart. Last year, 7.5 cents of every dollar spent in any store in the United States (other than auto-parts stores) went to the retailer. That means a contract with Wal-Mart can be critical even for the largest consumer-goods companies. Dial Corp., for example, does 28% of its business with Wal-Mart. If Dial lost that one account, it would have to double its sales to its next nine customers just to stay even. "Wal-Mart is the essential retailer, in a way no other retailer is," says Gib Carey, a partner at Bain & Co., who is leading a yearlong study of how to do business with Wal-Mart. "Our clients cannot grow without finding a way to be successful with Wal-Mart."

Many companies and their executives frankly admit that supplying Wal-Mart is like getting into the company version of basic training with an implacable Army drill sergeant. The process may be unpleasant. But there can be some positive results.

"Everyone from the forklift driver on up to me, the CEO, knew we had to deliver [to Wal-Mart] on time. Not 10 minutes late. And not 45 minutes early, either," says Robin Prever, who was CEO of Saratoga Beverage Group from 1992 to 2000, and made private-label water sold at Wal-Mart. "The message came through clearly: You have this 30-second delivery window. Either you're there, or you're out. With a customer like that, it changes your organization. For the better. It wakes everybody up. And all our customers benefited. We changed our whole approach to doing business."

But you won't hear evenhanded stories like that from Wal-Mart, or from its current suppliers. Despite being a publicly traded company, Wal-Mart is intensely private. It declined to talk in detail about its relationships with its suppliers for this story. More strikingly, dozens of companies contacted declined to talk about even the basics of their business with Wal-Mart.

Here, for example, is an executive at Dial: "We are one of Wal-Mart's biggest suppliers, and they are our biggest customer by far. We have a great relationship. That's all I can say. Are we done now?" Goaded a bit, the executive responds with an almost hysterical edge: "Are you meshuga? Why in the world would we talk about Wal-Mart? Ask me about anything else, we'll talk. But not Wal-Mart."

No one wants to end up in what is known among Wal-Mart vendors as the "penalty box"--punished, or even excluded from the store shelves, for saying something that makes Wal-Mart unhappy. (The penalty box is normally reserved for vendors who don't meet performance benchmarks, not for those who talk to the press.)

"You won't hear anything negative from most people," says Paul Kelly, founder of Silvermine Consulting Group, a company that helps businesses work more effectively with retailers. "It would be committing suicide. If Wal-Mart takes something the wrong way, it's like Saddam Hussein. You just don't want to piss them off."

As a result, this story was reported in an unusual way: by speaking with dozens of people who have spent years selling to Wal-Mart, or consulting to companies that sell to Wal-Mart, but who no longer work for companies that do business with Wal-Mart. Unless otherwise noted, the companies involved in the events they described refused even to confirm or deny the basics of the events.

To a person, all those interviewed credit Wal-Mart with a fundamental integrity in its dealings that's unusual in the world of consumer goods, retailing, and groceries. Wal-Mart does not cheat suppliers, it keeps its word, it pays its bills briskly. "They are tough people but very honest; they treat you honestly," says Peter Campanella, who ran the business that sold Corning kitchenware products, both at Corning and then at World Kitchen. "It was a joke to do business with most of their competitors. A fiasco."

But Wal-Mart also clearly does not hesitate to use its power, magnifying the Darwinian forces already at work in modern global capitalism.

Caught in the Wal-Mart squeeze, Huffy didn't just relinquish profits to keep its commitment to the retailer. It handed those profits to the competition.

What does the squeeze look like at Wal-Mart? It is usually thoroughly rational, sometimes devastatingly so.

John Mariotti is a veteran of the consumer-products world--he spent nine years as president of Huffy Bicycle Co., a division of Huffy Corp., and is now chairman of World Kitchen, the company that sells Oxo, Revere, Corning, and Ekco brand housewares.

He could not be clearer on his opinion about Wal-Mart: It's a great company, and a great company to do business with. "Wal-Mart has done more good for America by several thousand orders of magnitude than they've done bad," Mariotti says. "They have raised the bar, and raised the bar for everybody."

Mariotti describes one episode from Huffy's relationship with Wal-Mart. It's a tale he tells to illustrate an admiring point he makes about the retailer. "They demand you do what you say you are going to do." But it's also a classic example of the damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't Wal-Mart squeeze. When Mariotti was at Huffy throughout the 1980s, the company sold a range of bikes to Wal-Mart, 20 or so models, in a spread of prices and profitability. It was a leading manufacturer of bikes in the United States, in places like Ponca City, Oklahoma; Celina, Ohio; and Farmington, Missouri.

One year, Huffy had committed to supply Wal-Mart with an entry-level, thin-margin bike--as many as Wal-Mart needed. Sales of the low-end bike took off. "I woke up May 1"--the heart of the bike production cycle for the summer--"and I needed 900,000 bikes," he says. "My factories could only run 450,000." As it happened, that same year, Huffy's fancier, more-profitable bikes were doing well, too, at Wal-Mart and other places. Huffy found itself in a bind.

With other retailers, perhaps, Mariotti might have sat down, renegotiated, tried to talk his way out of the corner. Not with Wal-Mart. "I made the deal up front with them," he says. "I knew how high was up. I was duty-bound to supply my customer." So he did something extraordinary. To free up production in order to make Wal-Mart's cheap bikes, he gave the designs for four of his higher-end, higher-margin products to rival manufacturers. "I conceded business to my competitors, because I just ran out of capacity," he says. Huffy didn't just relinquish profits to keep Wal-Mart happy--it handed those profits to its competition. "Wal-Mart didn't tell me what to do," Mariotti says. "They didn't have to." The retailer, he adds, "is tough as nails. But they give you a chance to compete. If you can't compete, that's your problem."

In the years since Mariotti left Huffy, the bike maker's relationship with Wal-Mart has been vital (though Huffy Corp. has lost money in three out of the last five years). It is the number-three seller of bikes in the United States. And Wal-Mart is the number-one retailer of bikes. But here's one last statistic about bicycles: Roughly 98% are now imported from places such as China, Mexico, and Taiwan. Huffy made its last bike in the United States in 1999.

As Mariotti says, Wal-Mart is tough as nails. But not every supplier agrees that the toughness is always accompanied by fairness. The Lovable Company was founded in 1926 by the grandfather of Frank Garson II, who was Lovable's last president. It did business with Wal-Mart, Garson says, from the earliest days of founder Sam Walton's first store in Bentonville, Arkansas. Lovable made bras and lingerie, supplying retailers that also included Sears and Victoria's Secret. At one point, it was the sixth-largest maker of intimate apparel in the United States, with 700 employees in this country and another 2,000 at eight factories in Central America.

Eventually Wal-Mart became Lovable's biggest customer. "Wal-Mart has a big pencil," says Garson. "They have such awesome purchasing power that they write their own ticket. If they don't like your prices, they'll go vertical and do it themselves--or they'll find someone that will meet their terms."

In the summer of 1995, Garson asserts, Wal-Mart did just that. "They had awarded us a contract, and in their wisdom, they changed the terms so dramatically that they really reneged." Garson, still worried about litigation, won't provide details. "But when you lose a customer that size, they are irreplaceable."

Lovable was already feeling intense cost pressure. Less than three years after Wal-Mart pulled its business, in its 72nd year, Lovable closed. "They leave a lot to be desired in the way they treat people," says Garson. "Their actions to pulverize people are unnecessary. Wal-Mart chewed us up and spit us out."

Believe it or not, American business has been through this before. The Great Atlantic & Pacific Tea Co., the grocery-store chain, stood astride the U.S. market in the 1920s and 1930s with a dominance that has likely never been duplicated. At its peak, A&P had five times the number of stores Wal-Mart has now (although much smaller ones), and at one point, it owned 80% of the supermarket business. Some of the antipredatory-pricing laws in use today were inspired by A&P's attempts to muscle its suppliers.

There is very little academic and statistical study of Wal-Mart's impact on the health of its suppliers and virtually nothing in the last decade, when Wal-Mart's size has increased by a factor of five. This while the retail industry has become much more concentrated. In large part, that's because it's nearly impossible to get meaningful data that would allow researchers to track the influence of Wal-Mart's business on companies over time. You'd need cooperation from the vendor companies or Wal-Mart or both--and neither Wal-Mart nor its suppliers are interested in sharing such intimate detail.

Bain & Co., the global management consulting firm, is in the midst of a project that asks, How does a company have a healthy relationship with Wal-Mart? How do you avoid being sucked into the vortex? How do you maintain some standing, some leverage of your own?

This July, in a mating that had the relieved air of lovers who had too long resisted embracing, Levi Strauss rolled blue jeans into every Wal-Mart in the United States.

Bain's first insights are obvious, if not easy. "Year after year," Carey, a partner at Bain & Co., says, "for any product that is the same as what you sold them last year, Wal-Mart will say, 'Here's the price you gave me last year. Here's what I can get a competitor's product for. Here's what I can get a private-label version for. I want to see a better value that I can bring to my shopper this year. Or else I'm going to use that shelf space differently.' "

Carey has a friend in the umbrella business who learned that. One year, because of costs, he went to Wal-Mart and asked for a 5% price increase. "Wal-Mart said, 'We were expecting a 5% decrease. We're off by 10%. Go back and sharpen your pencil.' " The umbrella man scrimped and came back with a 2% increase. "They said, 'We'll go with a Chinese manufacturer'--and he was out entirely."

The Wal-Mart squeeze means vendors have to be as relentless and as microscopic as Wal-Mart is at managing their own costs. They need, in fact, to turn themselves into shadow versions of Wal-Mart itself. "Wal-Mart won't necessarily say you have to reconfigure your distribution system," says Carey. "But companies recognize they are not going to maintain margins with growth in their Wal-Mart business without doing it."

The way to avoid being trapped in a spiral of growing business and shrinking profits, says Carey, is to innovate. "You need to bring Wal-Mart new products--products consumers need. Because with those, Wal-Mart doesn't have benchmarks to drive you down in price. They don't have historical data, you don't have competitors, they haven't bid the products out to private-label makers. That's how you can have higher prices and higher margins."

Reasonable advice, but not universally useful. There has been an explosion of "innovation" in toothbrushes and toothpastes in the past five years, for instance; but a pickle is a pickle is a pickle.

Bain's other critical discovery is that consumers are often more loyal to product companies than to Wal-Mart. With strongly branded items people develop a preference for--things like toothpaste or laundry detergent--Wal-Mart rarely forces shoppers to switch to a second choice. It would simply punish itself by seeing sales fall, and it won't put up with that for long.

But as Wal-Mart has grown in market reach and clout, even manufacturers known for nurturing premium brands may find themselves overpowered. This July, in a mating that had the relieved air of lovers who had too long resisted embracing, Levi Strauss rolled blue jeans into every Wal-Mart doorway in the United States: 2,864 stores. Wal-Mart, seeking to expand its clothing business with more fashionable brands, promoted the clothes on its in-store TV network and with banners slipped over the security-tag detectors at exit doors.

Levi's launch into Wal-Mart came the same summer the clothes maker celebrated its 150th birthday. For a century and a half, one of the most recognizable names in American commerce had survived without Wal-Mart. But in October 2002, when Levi Strauss and Wal-Mart announced their engagement, Levi was shrinking rapidly. The pressure on Levi goes back 25 years--well before Wal-Mart was an influence. Between 1981 and 1990, Levi closed 58 U.S. manufacturing plants, sending 25% of its sewing overseas.

Sales for Levi peaked in 1996 at $7.1 billion. By last year, they had spiraled down six years in a row, to $4.1 billion; through the first six months of 2003, sales dropped another 3%. This one account--selling jeans to Wal-Mart--could almost instantly revive Levi.

Last year, Wal-Mart sold more clothing than any other retailer in the country. It also sold more pairs of jeans than any other store. Wal-Mart's own inexpensive house brand of jeans, Faded Glory, is estimated to do $3 billion in sales a year, a house brand nearly the size of Levi Strauss. Perhaps most revealing in terms of Levi's strategic blunders: In 2002, half the jeans sold in the United States cost less than $20 a pair. That same year, Levi didn't offer jeans for less than $30.

For much of the last decade, Levi couldn't have qualified to sell to Wal-Mart. Its computer systems were antiquated, and it was notorious for delivering clothes late to retailers. Levi admitted its on-time delivery rate was 65%. When it announced the deal with Wal-Mart last year, one fashion-industry analyst bluntly predicted Levi would simply fail to deliver the jeans.

But Levi Strauss has taken to the Wal-Mart Way with the intensity of a near-death religious conversion--and Levi's executives were happy to talk about their experience getting ready to sell at Wal-Mart. One hundred people at Levi's headquarters are devoted to the new business; another 12 have set up in an office in Bentonville, near Wal-Mart's headquarters, where the company has hired a respected veteran Wal-Mart sales account manager.

Getting ready for Wal-Mart has been like putting Levi on the Atkins diet. It has helped everything--customer focus, inventory management, speed to market. It has even helped other retailers that buy Levis, because Wal-Mart has forced the company to replenish stores within two days instead of Levi's previous five-day cycle.

And so, Wal-Mart might rescue Levi Strauss. Except for one thing.

Levi didn't actually have any clothes it could sell at Wal-Mart. Everything was too expensive. It had to develop a fresh line for mass retailers: the Levi Strauss Signature brand, featuring Levi Strauss's name on the back of the jeans.

Two months after the launch, Levi basked in the honeymoon glow. Overall sales, after falling for the first six months of 2003, rose 6% in the third quarter; profits in the summer quarter nearly doubled. All, Levi's CEO said, because of Signature.

"They are all very rational people. And they had a good point. Everyone was willing to pay more for a Master Lock. But how much more can they justify?"

But the low-end business isn't a business Levi is known for, or one it had been particularly interested in. It's also a business in which Levi will find itself competing with lean, experienced players such as VF and Faded Glory. Levi's makeover might so improve its performance with its non-Wal-Mart suppliers that its established business will thrive, too. It is just as likely that any gains will be offset by the competitive pressures already dissolving Levi's premium brands, and by the cannibalization of its own sales. "It's hard to see how this relationship will boost Levi's higher-end business," says Paul Farris, a professor at the University of Virginia's Darden Graduate School of Business Administration. "It's easy to see how this will hurt the higher-end business."

If Levi clothing is a runaway hit at Wal-Mart, that may indeed rescue Levi as a business. But what will have been rescued? The Signature line--it includes clothing for girls, boys, men, and women--is an odd departure for a company whose brand has long been an American icon. Some of the jeans have the look, the fingertip feel, of pricier Levis. But much of the clothing has the look and feel it must have, given its price (around $23 for adult pants): cheap. Cheap and disappointing to find labeled with Levi Strauss's name. And just five days before the cheery profit news, Levi had another announcement: It is closing its last two U.S. factories, both in San Antonio, and laying off more than 2,500 workers, or 21% of its workforce. A company that 22 years ago had 60 clothing plants in the United States--and that was known as one of the most socially reponsible corporations on the planet--will, by 2004, not make any clothes at all. It will just import them.

In the end, of course, it is we as shoppers who have the power, and who have given that power to Wal-Mart. Part of Wal-Mart's dominance, part of its insight, and part of its arrogance, is that it presumes to speak for American shoppers.

If Wal-Mart doesn't like the pricing on something, says Andrew Whitman, who helped service Wal-Mart for years when he worked at General Foods and Kraft, they simply say, "At that price we no longer think it's a good value to our shopper. Therefore, we don't think we should carry it."

Wal-Mart has also lulled shoppers into ignoring the difference between the price of something and the cost. Its unending focus on price underscores something that Americans are only starting to realize about globalization: Ever-cheaper prices have consequences. Says Steve Dobbins, president of thread maker Carolina Mills: "We want clean air, clear water, good living conditions, the best health care in the world--yet we aren't willing to pay for anything manufactured under those restrictions."

Randall Larrimore, a former CEO of MasterBrand Industries, the parent company of Master Lock, understands that contradiction too well. For years, he says, as manufacturing costs in the United States rose, Master Lock was able to pass them along. But at some point in the 1990s, Asian manufacturers started producing locks for much less. "When the difference is $1, retailers like Wal-Mart would prefer to have the brand-name padlock or faucet or hammer," Larrimore says. "But as the spread becomes greater, when our padlock was $9, and the import was $6, then they can offer the consumer a real discount by carrying two lines. Ultimately, they may only carry one line."

In January 1997, Master Lock announced that, after 75 years making locks in Milwaukee, it would begin importing more products from Asia. Not too long after, Master Lock opened a factory of its own in Nogales, Mexico. Today, it makes just 10% to 15% of its locks in Milwaukee--its 300 employees there mostly make parts that are sent to Nogales, where there are now 800 factory workers.

Larrimore did the first manufacturing layoffs at Master Lock. He negotiated with Master Lock's unions himself. He went to Bentonville. "I loved dealing with Wal-Mart, with Home Depot," he says. "They are all very rational people. There wasn't a whole lot of room for negotiation. And they had a good point. Everyone was willing to pay more for a Master Lock. But how much more can they justify? If they can buy a lock that has arguably similar qual-ity, at a cheaper price, well, they can get their consumers a deal."

It's Wal-Mart in the role of Adam Smith's invisible hand. And the Milwaukee employees of Master Lock who shopped at Wal-Mart to save money helped that hand shove their own jobs right to Nogales. Not consciously, not directly, but inevitably. "Do we as consumers appreciate what we're doing?" Larrimore asks. "I don't think so. But even if we do, I think we say, Here's a Master Lock for $9, here's another lock for $6--let the other guy pay $9."

Charles Fishman ([email protected]) is a senior writer at Fast Company. Andrew Moesel provided research assistance for this story.
FC
Reply #13 Top
"Unkindest cut of all." There are some people other than the "average," you know, simply do not have the wherewithal to pull themselves up and need a hand.


I'm sorry steven, but it is the persons obligation to find the wherewithal they need to survive. Is it possible that we, humans, having the ability to think and yet animals can do a better job surviving on their own?

I can understand your point, but because there is that exception that just can't do it no matter how, we have to provide him/her with needed help and give it to those who can do it but qualify for free money as well? I don't think so. I will never believe that helping a person to maintain their financial situation, in this case poor, is makingb their lives better.

They are buying but are charging it because they do NOT have the earned income they need. The average Credit Card balance is at an ALL TIME HIGH at over $8,600 per family. In the mid 1990's that same amount was $3,300 per average family. Here are a FEW articles:


How exactly do you know this? Do you believe anything reported as long as its against Bush? Did it ever occure to you that maybe the reason people use credit cards more is because most stores, banks, TV commercials and even the internet encourage you to use it more offten. What, with all these airline miles, cash back offers, free deliver with credit card or discounts who wouldn't.

Have you bothered to compare , for example, online sales in 2005 with this credit card story of yours? Did it ever occure to you that people have the bad tendency of buying what they cant afford or don't need? Why do you think there are so many commerials about helping people get out of their debts? Have you ever noticed the people in the commercials are never from poor areas?

Get this thru your thick head, debt is not Govt responsability, it's the individuals responsability to control his spending, his consumption of energy and his ability to bring funds to the home.
Reply #14 Top
#12 by COL Gene
Friday, January 20, 2006


BTW, that was an extremely ridiculously long post. If you can't debate without posting an entire website on to your post then your not worth debating with. This was not necessary, a simple link would have been enough. And one more thing. Hows about you try to act less childish and stop screaming so much on your post. Get a clue that if just talking does not work what makes you think that screaming will?
Reply #15 Top
They are buying but are charging it because they do NOT have the earned income they need. The average Credit Card balance is at an ALL TIME HIGH at over $8,600 per family. In the mid 1990's that same amount was $3,300 per average family. Here are a FEW articles:


You don't know what the "average" American family is charging.


Col, your ridiculous cut and paste posts are outdated and just shows that you get your talking points and ignore everything else.

This says it all for me col.

Daily Talking Points is a product of the Center for American Progress, a non-partisan research and educational institute committed to progressive principles for a strong, just and free America.
Reply #16 Top
IslandDog

It does not matter WHAT they are charging just the fact that they are adding to their credit card balances. That clearly shows much of the spending, regardless what they are buying, is not from using actual cash from income but debt. They are also NOT saving it from their income because savings rates are at an ALL time LOW!
Reply #17 Top
If you want to argue that high paying jobs are not moving out of this country, be my guest. All that shows is how out of touch you are with what is going on in this country!
Reply #18 Top
It does not matter WHAT they are charging just the fact that they are adding to their credit card balances. That clearly shows much of the spending, regardless what they are buying, is not from using actual cash from income but debt. They are also NOT saving it from their income because savings rates are at an ALL time LOW!


PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY COL! Not the governments fault.


If you want to argue that high paying jobs are not moving out of this country, be my guest. All that shows is how out of touch you are with what is going on in this country!


Col, jobs have always moved out of this country. It's nothing new. However, that doesn't stop people like you who think the President personally signs the papers that transfer people out. The only one out of touch here col is you.
Reply #19 Top

If you want to argue that high paying jobs are not moving out of this country, be my guest. All that shows is how out of touch you are with what is going on in this country!


I get your point Col but do you believe that every single high paying job is going overseas? Do you believe that every job created is an $8 job? Don't you think that if things are really as bad as you make them sound that unemployment would be sky rocketing as oppose to just going up little by little?

The way you express yourself leads me to believe that only $8 to $10 jobs are available today. So how come is it that so many people here are talking about friends and family getting good jobs and not having financial problems?

I have used myself as an example but you refuse to listen. I am not in a good financial position as we speak but it is not the Govt fault. I could be doing better if I just tried harder. I'm a fool for not doing it but that will all change once I go back to the states in the summer and prove to you that things are not as bad as you believe. Not that it matters to you cause as long as you can advertise how bad Bush is everything else is just a whisper in the winds.

I'm not even sure why you post here. What you need is a site where you can express yourself without any contradictions or facts to disporove you. Nothing funnier than a person who goes to a debating site only to get his point across and ignore the rest.
Reply #20 Top
The more jobs you keep domestic, the higher the cost of the end product. Goods are becoming as cheap as they are because we've moved manufacturing and engineering overseas to cheaper locations. Move manufacturing back to the US and the price of the average item at WalMart will likely double. Increase the wages of hourly workers and the prices rise (and the number of jobs decrease).

And it DOES matter what people are charging. Are they charging for food and basic clothing? Or are they charging TVs, stereos, computers, high speed internet access, dvds etc.? If it's more of the latter, then it's not the economy's fault that people are spending beyond their means. I point again to my friend I mentioned above who has a family that is about to grow significantly, and he's doing just fine. They buy what they NEED and not what they necessarily want. It's tight, but they're doing it just fine.

Yes, outsourcing is a problem for a lot of people. It is a shadow that hangs over me every day since I work in IT, but at the end of the day it is driven by not the government, but by the consumer. The consumer wants everything cheaper, and the only way to deliver cheaper goods in most cases is to radically reduce production costs and infrastructure costs. You do that by offshoring mainly. Or you could cut the wages of your employees in half and then hear complaints that companies aren't paying employees enough.

We're in the middle of a delicate balancing act. Goods and services must be affordable. People producing the goods and services should be American and paid well above minimum wage. We can't have it all, we have to compromise on some of this. Goods need to go up in price a bit so we can keep more jobs in the US. And btw, the number of jobs is affected by the min wage paid for said jobs too. You can either hire 2 people at $7/hr each or one person at $14/hr. Which is better? One way you have higher employment, but the other you have one person being paid a more survivable wage.

You ignore way too many factors and use meaningless statistics (a 1.7% drop IS NOT SIGNIFICANT) to advance a bad argument. The success of the economy can only really be judged by the quality of life of those who choose to work. If someone doesn't want to work, it's no one's fault they're in poverty but their own.
Reply #21 Top
Yesterday the Dept of Labor reported that after inflation, the Average Hourly Earnings DROPPED .5% in 2005. That followed a .7% drop in 2004. Thus, during the past two years the Average Hourly Wage has DROPPED 1.2%.

When I see reports like this, I question them. I'm always interested in a look at the "hard facts", and usually comments reported like this are spin. No offense, Col, but this is no exception.

See, the key phrase here is "after inflation". I am almost wholly certain that this is indexed according to the Cost of Living index that many economists agree is exaggerated. And there's no mention of how tax cuts have impacted the actual take home pay of these families.

Another key word here is "average". While fun to play with and all, this, frankly, tells us nothing. There's an old saying that a statistician is one who puts his head in an oven and his feet in a freezer and declares "on the average, I feel fine". Because these figures represent the average, rather than the median average wage, I have to question them, because they actually could prove the REVERSE of what you're trying to prove. Here's how:

See, if the top wage earners were giving more to their lower wage earners, the top wage earners would be making less and the lower wage earners would be making more. This would affect the average wage significantly one way or the other, depending on how much the top wage earners had surrendered and how much the lower wage earners had increased. This means that these statistics, absent FAR more information, could be used to prove that employers are paying their workers more and taking home less.

When taking standardized tests in statistics, mathematics, or logic, there's usually an option to choose when the information provided does not give you enough information to reach a conclusion. These statistics are clearly an example of this. In other words, your statement forms a QUESTION, not an ANSWER.
Reply #22 Top
#20 by Zoomba
Friday, January 20, 2006


I beg you to make this into an article or permite me to do so and give you the credit. Well not the points cause I can't just pass them over. If I could I would.

Great post. I am, however, sad to say that your post will fall on death ears cause there is just no way that this is not Bushs fault.
Reply #23 Top
It may be that cost of living is not accurate for all families, In fact a family that must commute to work or who may have high home heating bills may have impacted to a greater extent then the cost of living shows. The policies our government is following in trade, taxes have a very direct impact on individuals. The policies we have been following are designed to help some BIG Business and the wealthy NOT the average working family!
Reply #24 Top
Excellent job side-stepping any arguments and just doing more "Rah! Rah! Bush sucks!" crap.
Reply #25 Top
I reported what the Dept of Labor released. I guess they Bash Bush as well. You people are just unwilling you see things as they are if you believe it does not reflect well on King George!