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Island Dog
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Liberals and religious tolerance

December 8, 2005 1:01:21 PM from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Why is it liberals tell me that mentioning Christmas in public might offend someone so I shouldn't do?

Why is it when islamists kill innocent people in the name of their religion they say we should tolerate their beliefs?
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Island Dog
Gideon MacLeish
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Reply #1 December 8, 2005 1:21:44 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
How about: why is it that Christians are constantly derided as evilfor participation in the Crusades, yet the Muslims who attempted to convert the entire world to Islam by the sword that precipitated the Crusades were holy warriors?

Questions an objectivist might ask, no doubt
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Dr Guy
Join Date 09/2004
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Reply #2 December 8, 2005 1:24:03 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I wonder why the very sight of a religious display is so threatening to atheists?
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Island Dog
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Reply #3 December 8, 2005 7:57:49 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
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davad70
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Reply #4 December 8, 2005 11:12:30 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Why is it that you guys always tack this onto liberals? You think they are the only ones getting rid of the word Christmas from the holiday season?
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Dr Guy
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Reply #5 December 9, 2005 7:28:44 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

Why is it that you guys always tack this onto liberals? You think they are the only ones getting rid of the word Christmas from the holiday season?

Actually, most of the atheists that are behind this caucus with the democrats.  Birds of a feather.

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Reply #6 December 9, 2005 7:35:49 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
You think they are the only ones getting rid of the word Christmas from the holiday season?


Pretty much, yes. Most of the groups who help these "offended" people are very liberal.
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bakerstreet
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Reply #7 December 9, 2005 7:51:21 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I think there is a fundamental misunderstanding of the COnstitution, and we are perpetuating it with kids instead of correcting it. We should be teaching in school what each of these rights REALLY means. If not, in a generation or two they'll have it stretched to a secular paranoia like France.
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davad70
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Reply #8 December 9, 2005 9:45:08 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Actually, most of the atheists that are behind this caucus with the democrats. Birds of a feather.


Pretty much, yes. Most of the groups who help these "offended" people are very liberal.


Well, apparently the liberals who hate Christmas now have recruited GW, Jeb, and the RNC into the fold also. What's the world coming to?

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Dr Guy
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Reply #9 December 9, 2005 9:54:25 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

Well, apparently the liberals who hate Christmas now have recruited GW, Jeb, and the RNC into the fold also. What's the world coming to?

I dont beleive any of them are trying to remove Christmas from the lexicon.  Christians are very tolerant of others wishes and beliefs.  So your links are non-sequitar.

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davad70
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Reply #10 December 9, 2005 10:35:39 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I dont beleive any of them are trying to remove Christmas from the lexicon.


You're right they are not trying, they did. The white house also started calling the Christmas reception for children a "Holiday Reception". They also changed the name of the Christmas party for the press corps to a "Holiday Party".

So why is it that when christians use the term "Holiday" in place of Christmas it's called being tolerant, but when liberals use holiday instead of Christmas it's called intolerance?
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bakerstreet
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Reply #11 December 9, 2005 10:42:03 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
"So why is it that when christians use the term "Holiday" in place of Christmas it's called being tolerant, but when liberals use holiday instead of Christmas it's called intolerance?"


It isn't. It's intolerant when they start telling other people what to call i, implying that the public expression of the holiday is somehow harmful.
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Dr Guy
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Reply #12 December 9, 2005 11:00:27 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

You're right they are not trying, they did. The white house also started calling the Christmas reception for children a "Holiday Reception". They also changed the name of the Christmas party for the press corps to a "Holiday Party".

Strange, I saw no law or court ruling.  As I said, Christians are very tolerant.  You can call it anything you want, just dont deny me the same right.  Are you trying to deny them that right?  Apparently.  I guess then that is the answer to your original question.

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singrdave
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Reply #13 December 9, 2005 11:19:13 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
"Sure, you can go ahead and say 'Merry Christmas' if you want. Or 'Happy Hanukkah', or however else you want to celebrate the birth of the Baby Jesus." - Stephen Colbert

That's tolerance, baby!
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Reply #14 December 9, 2005 12:57:22 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
So why is it that when christians use the term "Holiday" in place of Christmas it's called being tolerant, but when liberals use holiday instead of Christmas it's called intolerance?


Using the term "Holiday" electively is different than going to court and forcing people to do it.
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Gideon MacLeish
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Reply #15 December 9, 2005 1:00:31 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Here's the Kicker...Bush is our president, but he is still a citizen. As such, if his family wishes to celebrate kwanzaa, Ramadan, or the Epiphany of the Funky Monkeys, they may do so. But what they may NOT do is tell me and MY family what is/isn't appropriate for us to celebrate.

THAT's the diff between conservatives and libs on this one!
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Reply #16 December 9, 2005 7:51:30 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Critics Aren't Keeping Quiet Over 'Silent Night' Lyrics Change School Under Fire for Having Kids Sing New Words to Classic Christmas Song By ADRIENNE MAND LEWIN Dec. 9, 2005 — - The latest salvo in the "war on Christmas" has been fired -- this time over the lyrics to the venerable Christmas carol "Silent Night."

Many who believe Christmas has been overly secularized are pouncing on a Wisconsin school that will present the tune with different words, under the title "Cold in the Night."

'Mocking' a Traditional Song? The controversy began when the father of a student at Ridgeway Elementary School in Dodgeville, Wis., was upset with the lyrics his child brought home to learn. He told the non-profit group Liberty Counsel they are: "Cold in the night, no one in sight, winter winds whirl and bite, how I wish I were happy and warm, safe with my family out of the storm."

Offended by the new words, he was unable to convince the school not to perform the song and contacted Liberty Counsel, which provides free legal assistance in religious freedom cases.

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dharmagrl
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Reply #17 December 9, 2005 8:00:04 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I think there is a fundamental misunderstanding of the COnstitution, and we are perpetuating it with kids instead of correcting it. We should be teaching in school what each of these rights REALLY means.


For once, I agree with Baker. The constitution provides for freedom OF religion, not FROM.
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Dr Guy
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Reply #18 December 9, 2005 8:09:34 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
For once, I agree with Baker. The constitution provides for freedom OF religion, not FROM.


Ditto!
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davad70
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Reply #19 December 9, 2005 11:20:15 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
But what they may NOT do is tell me and MY family what is/isn't appropriate for us to celebrate.


Did someone come knocking on your door and forbid you to celebrate Christmas? There is a major difference between keeping religious songs, displays, etc out of public schools, govt. buildings, etc. and someone telling you it is inappropriate to celebrate Christmas.
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Lee1776
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Reply #20 December 9, 2005 11:33:57 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Did someone come knocking on your door and forbid you to celebrate Christmas? There is a major difference between keeping religious songs, displays, etc out of public schools, govt. buildings, etc. and someone telling you it is inappropriate to celebrate Christmas.


Ditto!
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Zoomba
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Reply #21 December 9, 2005 11:53:33 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
However, there is still no actual law or rule or anything even close saying it can't be publicly displayed so long as participation isn't forced.
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Dr Guy
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Reply #22 December 10, 2005 6:47:56 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

Did someone come knocking on your door and forbid you to celebrate Christmas?

As a matter of fact, yes.

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Reply #23 December 10, 2005 7:44:04 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Did someone come knocking on your door and forbid you to celebrate Christmas? There is a major difference between keeping religious songs, displays, etc out of public schools, govt. buildings, etc. and someone telling you it is inappropriate to celebrate Christmas.


Telling my child that they can't sing "Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer" in school is just about the same as coming to my door.
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davad70
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Reply #24 December 10, 2005 7:52:00 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
As a matter of fact, yes.


Let me guess who it was.....Howard Dean? Barbara Boxer? John Stewart?
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davad70
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Reply #25 December 10, 2005 7:55:03 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Telling my child that they can't sing "Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer" in school is just about the same as coming to my door.


Yes, you're right that is about the same as someone coming to your door and forbidding you to celebrate Christmas. Maybe you should send you child to a private school then. Then they will even be able to sing such classics as Oh Holy Night, Away In A Manger, and other Christmas songs.
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