D___ them...

from JoeUser Forums
Warning: Semi-Vent



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This is what it means to be in Iraq. Our soldier helping those less fortunate. I personally damn those who would have us leave early and leave these people to anarchy. These people need our help. We, as a world, need to put up or shut up whenit concerns freedom. We sit by idley while other denizins of other countries get maimed, tortured, and humiliated. The UN is no better. The G'damn pacifistic "look the other" way organization has done little to prevent various incidents. When nations are led at the helm by maniacle dictators who don't give a whim about anyone except themselves, the UN just slaps them on the hand. Damn them.

-EW
politics
8,421 views 17 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top
You know what, Lucas? You're of the age, why don't you drop some lbs. and ship your ass out to Basic Training?

What your picture doesn't show is that our Soldiers have little babies at home, crying, yearning to hear their daddy's voice and feel his comforting touch. Damn you forgetting that Soldiers aren't robots. They are human beings, and they have families and children and our AMERICAN children have needs just like Iraqi children.

So yeah, damn you. Don't talk shit if you're not willing to fucking enlist.

PS - The Soldier in this pic is 25th ID (Hawaii).
Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top
I didn't take this as "screw the soldiers"...I guess I took it as screw the people who make the decisions. The soldiers are really puppets. We know that most of them would much rather be at home with their families. But we're still thankful that they're willing to go for the "greater good of humanity"...whatever THAT is anymore.

I haven't seen this photo before. I think it really shows the tragedy in all of this. These poor soldiers go away and have to come back seeing these things and experiencing these things over and over. It's not fair. None of it.
Fences - Organize your desktop icons today!
Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top
It's not just our soldiers that are dying in Iraq. Our troops are killing Iraqi civilians over there. Innocent men, women, and children are dying because of our actions.
Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top
Marcie:
I didn't take this as "screw the soldiers"...I guess I took it as screw the people who make the decisions.


I took this as pious moral judgment from someone sitting on his fat ass in front of a computer screen with NO RIGHT to pass moral judgment.

David:
Our troops are killing Iraqi civilians over there.


Prove it, asshole.
Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top
It's a war. People die--soldiers and civillians. I don't want to make light of the death and destruction...not at all. But would an American soldier kill an Iraqi civillian just because s/he could? I'd like to think the answer is a definitive no.

There's really not a whole lot that can be done about it now.
Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top
Reply By: Texas Wahine


:O

Dude, TW... breathe...

You know what, you assumed here. And IMO, it made you look like an ass. Not me. I never meant anything towards the soldiers. AT ALL. Trust me. I have some experience with having (extended family, but it hurt none the less) family being sent out to various corners of the world. My family has histroy of being in the military. I have nothing but praise for our soldiers/military. The point of this was to say "Damn them" to those who would rather have us flee, and make it look as if those soldiers, who willingly or unwillingly fought in iraq look like fools. That thier deaths meant nothing. Thats BS. Those who hide. I have THE utmost respect for our soldiers. You know why? Because *THEY* are willing to put their lifves on the line for others. I know a couple people from my school that enlisted in the military. (Navy/Marines) Am i worried that when they get sent over to iraq, or whereever that they could die? Hell yes! I care about them.

It's not just our soldiers that are dying in Iraq. Our troops are killing Iraqi civilians over there. Innocent men, women, and children are dying because of our actions.


Dude, shut up.

What your picture doesn't show is that our Soldiers have little babies at home, crying, yearning to hear their daddy's voice and feel his comforting touch. Damn you forgetting that Soldiers aren't robots. They are human beings, and they have families and children and our AMERICAN children have needs just like Iraqi children.So yeah, damn you. Don't talk shit if you're not willing to fucking enlist.PS - The Soldier in this pic is 25th ID (Hawaii).


Also, I would be glad to. Slight problem at the moment though....


I didn't take this as "screw the soldiers"...I guess I took it as screw the people who make the decisions. The soldiers are really puppets. We know that most of them would much rather be at home with their families. But we're still thankful that they're willing to go for the "greater good of humanity"...whatever THAT is anymore.


Precisely. Those who hide behind thei faux facade (redundent?) and claim they are ____ (insert word here). Those who say: "I support this war" Then, months later they say "lets leave..." blah blah blah.... They're no better than hussein.

PS - The Soldier in this pic is 25th ID (Hawaii).


Kudos...


-lucas
Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top
t's a war. People die--soldiers and civillians. I don't want to make light of the death and destruction...not at all. But would an American soldier kill an Iraqi civillian just because s/he could? I'd like to think the answer is a definitive no. There's really not a whole lot that can be done about it now.


I say hold those who "backstab" (I.e. backtrack and say they never supported the war....etc...) accountable. Run 'em out of town.


To answer your question: No, I feel our soldiers have a bit more honor than that.

Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top
You know what, you assumed here. And IMO, it made you look like an ass. Not me.


Yeah, Lucas. It made ME look like an ass when you wrote a pious rant condemning those who support bringing the troops home while I prepare to send my husband to war and you wipe the Cheetos crumbs off your keyboard and turn your TV on to Springer. Right.

I have some experience with having (extended family, but it hurt none the less) family being sent out to various corners of the world. My family has histroy of being in the military.


It's convenient that you claim that, since you seem to have magically been connected to everything you discuss. You conjure up characters and titles and accomplishments to prove your points. I don't buy it.

Further, if that WERE true, some crusty uncle you saw 7 years ago at a family BBQ is not the same as your partner in life and the father of your children.

The point of this was to say "Damn them" to those who would rather have us flee, and make it look as if those soldiers, who willingly or unwillingly fought in iraq look like fools. That thier deaths meant nothing.


How would it make anyone but the current administration look like fools? And the value of a life is not measured by the outcome of the Iraq war. The men and women who have died in Iraq have personal value based on their choices and relationships with others. If they died heroically, or were good people, nothing will change that.

Am i worried that when they get sent over to iraq, or whereever that they could die? Hell yes! I care about them.


Lucas, you are so far removed from this. It's insulting that you pretend to be in some way connected or involved.

Also, I would be glad to. Slight problem at the moment though....


And what problem is that? Don't pass judgment or assume that you know what is best for our military when you aren't willing to do what it takes to serve yourself.

Yes, I am pissed off at you Lucas. This post made me furious. Not only that, but it is CLEARLY meant to pander to the pro-war conservatives on this site. My husband's life is not something to play games and try to impress people with.
Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top
Yeah, Lucas. It made ME look like an ass when you wrote a pious rant condemning those who support bringing the troops home while I prepare to send my husband to war and you wipe the Cheetos crumbs off your keyboard and turn your TV on to Springer. Right.


....You know what. I don't have to prove anything to you. Yes, I would love to see the soldiers home. BUT There is a difference between bringing them home just cause. And bringing them home when th job is done. How would your husband feel if everything he had done in iraq resulted in nothing more than the US leaving and iraq falling into chaos?

It's convenient that you claim that, since you seem to have magically been connected to everything you discuss. You conjure up characters and titles and accomplishments to prove your points. I don't buy it.Further, if that WERE true, some crusty uncle you saw 7 years ago at a family BBQ is not the same as your partner in life and the father of your children.


Family is family. There is no difference.

How would it make anyone but the current administration look like fools? And the value of a life is not measured by the outcome of the Iraq war. The men and women who have died in Iraq have personal value based on their choices and relationships with others. If they died heroically, or were good people, nothing will change that.


They ("pull out know") would just claim that the bush administration "double crossed" the troops and the iraqi's. They would, by their words, smear what accomplishments the soldiers have acheived. History isn't just rememebered by what actually happened, but by how it was portrayed. One example is the fact that the media, and not a single (bring troops home) politician (that comes to mind) has ever mentioned the GOOD things done by our troops. The fact that they've built schools, water reserves,etc...

Lucas, you are so far removed from this. It's insulting that you pretend to be in some way connected or involved.


Removed as in having experienced war, yes. Removed as in having direct (husband-wife/son-father,etc...) yes. But nonetheless, I do have a connection. And I'm sorry you feel that way. Figured you if anyone would understand. Sheesh.

Don't pass judgment or assume that you know what is best for our military when you aren't willing to do what it takes to serve yourself.


Pass judgement? Where? Please show me. Cause i'm afraid thats not what I see.

And what problem is that? Don't pass judgment or assume that you know what is best for our military when you aren't willing to do what it takes to serve yourself.Yes, I am pissed off at you Lucas. This post made me furious. Not only that, but it is CLEARLY meant to pander to the pro-war conservatives on this site. My husband's life is not something to play games and try to impress people with.


I have done my part. I write letters to soldiers: I've donated supplies for the local NG branch. I support the troops. Do not criticize me for my past. That (IMO) is the main point here. You took my past, and used it as an excuse to slap me in the face. You assumed. Period.

Clearly? Hmmm, indirectly, perhaps so. I NEVER intended it that way. You know who i was thinking about when i posted this. Hmmm? Guess, please, with your "infinite" wisdom. The soldiers. I don't like it when fat cat politicians hide. When the whine rant and rave about shit they hardly know two cents about. The troops are more than just chips on a poker table. They do mean more. But, If they leave...before iraq is stable then ask yourself "what was the point?"

I'm not questioning the troops. I'm questioning the fat cat politicians.

-EW
Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top
but it is CLEARLY meant to pander to the pro-war conservatives on this site. My husband's life is not something to play games and try to impress people with.


Oh, and one more thing. I DON'T GIVE A RATS ASS ABOUT THE WAR HAWK CONS HERE!

...ok?
Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top
Lucas:
....You know what. I don't have to prove anything to you.


No, you don't. And I don't have to believe any personal detail you give because you have proven yourself untrustworthy.

BUT There is a difference between bringing them home just cause. And bringing them home when th job is done. How would your husband feel if everything he had done in iraq resulted in nothing more than the US leaving and iraq falling into chaos?


Personally, I don't care either way. I'd like to see some clear objectives, have them met, and have the majority of the troops home asap. We have gotten rid of Saddam. We have searched for WMDs. We have helped set up a government and we have restored some infrastructure. I think anything else we do over there is icing.

My husband has not been to Iraq. He did his first year long tour in Afghanistan/Uzbekistan. He is slated to leave for another year this summer and will be going to Iraq. He doesn't care if Iraq falls into chaos. You do realize that Iraq is fucked regardless of what the US does, right? I'd (and he'd) rather Iraq be fucked and he be alive and not missing any limbs or senses than for Iraq to be fucked and he be dead or maimed.

Not every Soldier thinks Iraq is a just and necessary war, Lucas.

Family is family. There is no difference.


Bullshit. You want to try to tell me that some far removed relative of yours being away and in danger for a year is the same thing as me raising my children by myself and worrying myself sick everyday? My children pay the price for this war. They need their daddy. You want to tell me that you'd sacrifice my husband's life for some fleeting whisper of democracy and justice in a foreign country? You're delusional if you can equate your situation and that of my family.

They ("pull out know") would just claim that the bush administration "double crossed" the troops and the iraqi's. They would, by their words, smear what accomplishments the soldiers have acheived.


The people who hate Bush will always hate Bush. Good deeds are good deeds. It doesn't matter how they're painted or smeared.

One example is the fact that the media, and not a single (bring troops home) politician (that comes to mind) has ever mentioned the GOOD things done by our troops. The fact that they've built schools, water reserves,etc...


Do some googling Lucas. I'm not going to do it for you.

Removed as in having experienced war, yes. Removed as in having direct (husband-wife/son-father,etc...) yes. But nonetheless, I do have a connection. And I'm sorry you feel that way. Figured you if anyone would understand. Sheesh.


OK, tell me your connection. Tell me what close loved one you have serving in Iraq. What unit is he or she in? Where was he or she stationed? You don't FEEL this war. It's all talk to you. It makes me sick.

Pass judgement? Where? Please show me. Cause i'm afraid thats not what I see.


Hahaha. You're not seriously that stupid are you? The fucking title is "Damn them" for god's sake, Lucas. This article is written with liberal use of the words "we" and "our"...how do you play into that?

I have done my part. I write letters to soldiers: I've donated supplies for the local NG branch.


Writing letters to Soldiers is not even remotely similar to experiencing the effect of the war or contributing to it. What did you donate to your National Guard branch? When? Details, please?

Do not criticize me for my past. That (IMO) is the main point here. You took my past, and used it as an excuse to slap me in the face. You assumed. Period.


No, Lucas, you talked out of your ass here and I called you on it. Your past is a part of who you are, and everyone's dealings with you is colored by the lies, the venom, the childishness, and the dishonesty you've displayed here. You can't divorce yourself from your actions.

You've used up the last bit of kindness and understanding I had for you. I felt sorry for you. I really did. No longer.

When the whine rant and rave about shit they hardly know two cents about.


Kinda like you did here?

You have NO RIGHT to use this Soldier's photo to further a political agenda. It's wrong when the liberals do it, and it's wrong when you do it. It makes me sick.

Oh, and one more thing. I DON'T GIVE A RATS ASS ABOUT THE WAR HAWK CONS HERE!


You have a history of posting whatever you think will get you the most attention, Lucas. You reinvent yourself to get attention and attaboys from the people on this site. You're transparent. This is obviously a bid to get the pro-war folks on here to like you and give you attention.

You feel so strongly about the plight of the Iraqis...when are you going to enlist?
Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top
No, you don't. And I don't have to believe any personal detail you give because you have proven yourself untrustworthy.


Bullshit. You want to try to tell me that some far removed relative of yours being away and in danger for a year is the same thing as me raising my children by myself and worrying myself sick everyday? My children pay the price for this war. They need their daddy. You want to tell me that you'd sacrifice my husband's life for some fleeting whisper of democracy and justice in a foreign country? You're delusional if you can equate your situation and that of my family.


Well, I know how it felt in MY situation. Thats enough for me. I wouldn't want to have to see a wife, or child off to war. I apologize for whatever intention you saw in my post. It was *never* intended. I also apologize for what possibly looked like arrogance.

My husband has not been to Iraq. He did his first year long tour in Afghanistan/Uzbekistan. He is slated to leave for another year this summer and will be going to Iraq. He doesn't care if Iraq falls into chaos. You do realize that Iraq is fucked regardless of what the US does, right? I'd (and he'd) rather Iraq be fucked and he be alive and not missing any limbs or senses than for Iraq to be fucked and he be dead or maimed


Granted, I have a question then. Why did your husband join the military then? Why? If their was no point to it, then couldn't he have gotten a safer job? Iraq has hope, we just need all arrows point north, so to speak.

Kinda like you did here?You have NO RIGHT to use this Soldier's photo to further a political agenda. It's wrong when the liberals do it, and it's wrong when you do it. It makes me sick.


There was no FUCKING AGENDA! Jesus Fucking Christ! TW, please, listen...for once in this conversation. I *never* posted this to gain leverage of any kind. AT ALL! You know what, I'm about ready to say "damn you" for jumping on an assume lucas bandwagon. Give me a fucking chance. God Damn!!! You seriously don't know how disappointed i am. I mean...c'mon...

No, Lucas, you talked out of your ass here and I called you on it. Your past is a part of who you are, and everyone's dealings with you is colored by the lies, the venom, the childishness, and the dishonesty you've displayed here. You can't divorce yourself from your actions.You've used up the last bit of kindness and understanding I had for you. I felt sorry for you. I really did. No longer.


I talked out of my HEART. NO AGENDA, NO ATTENTION GRABBING, NOTHING OF THAT SORT. LIKE I KEEP SAYING, WHICH YOU DON'T SEEM TO GET. MY POINT HERE, WAS TO RANT ABOUT THOSE WHO BACKSTAB...KERRY? MURTHA? RING ANY BELLS? IF YOU SUPPORT SOMETHING, STAND BY IT. DON'T TURN TAIL LIKE A COWARD. ITS A MATTER OF HONOR. YES, I BELIEVE/HOPE THAT WE COULD GET OUT QUICKLEY. I REALLY, REALLY HOPE WE DO. BUT, LETS NOT LEAVE THEM STRANDED, IMO, IT MAKES EVERY AMERICAN LOOK LIKE ASSES. REGARDLESS OF WHERE THEY STAND. I DON'T WANT THOSE SOLDIERS TO BE VIEWED ANY LESS THAN HEROS. CAUSE THATS WHAT THEY ARE.


You feel so strongly about the plight of the Iraqis...when are you going to enlist?


Hmmm...two years....or whenever i *can* enlist. Like i said, I can't enlist now because of my medical condition. I can't exactly carry around liquid oxygen with me, now can i? And its not that i am "transparent". Its that it will take time before anyone gives me a chance, or will be willing to trust me again. I'm waiting...cause, maybe, just maybe...some one will trust me... I've been honest since the second incident. everything...to the best of my memory...(As far as i can remember back) has been nothing but honesty.

Writing letters to Soldiers is not even remotely similar to experiencing the effect of the war or contributing to it. What did you donate to your National Guard branch? When? Details, please?


Perhaps... But, I supported them wth what i could... ok? I/we donated (school drive) perishable items, etc... *thinks* It would've been wround March/April...(?) of 2004. I believe, don't quote me on that cause it was too long ago. And i believe it was directly to the branch, I think i spoke before thinking on that detail. I apologize.

Hahaha. You're not seriously that stupid are you? The fucking title is "Damn them" for god's sake, Lucas. This article is written with liberal use of the words "we" and "our"...how do you play into that?


No, I'm not. But, I'm *not * passing judgement on the soldiers. (If thats what you thought) I'm passing judgement on the *politicians* who use the soldiers as toys, people like Cindy Sheehan. Who don't (as far as i know) understand whats going on. That progress IS being made. That it isn't just a "hailstorm." Perhaps i am a liberal, At least i'm not liberal trash. I don't consider myself that (liberal), or conservative. I'm ME. That's good enough for me.


Please TW, I like you. You are a nice person. Just give me a flippin chance, don't jump my ass before you learn all sides of the story.



-EW
Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top
Actually, taking a second look. Perhaps I'm not just "damning" politicians. Is it wrong to be compassionate? No. Our world has devolvd/evolved into a state of selfishness.

Regardless, I don't want to further this conlict so i am closing this topic. I thought you, of all people would understand me. Perhaps I should just quit talking period. I mean, God damn....

-EW
Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top
Hmmm.... I read your article. Link

While, the title...was (if in reference to me speiically or not) a bit unecessary.

I'm making a last attempt (disregard the previous post) to clarify my position.

1) I am not Pro-War. By far, i am a pacifist. (Regardless of what my temper problem may 'prelude' to)

2) I just want freedom or everyone. Regardless of color, race, or history. That is how strongly i feel about it. IF i could, I would help physically, by enlisting.

3) I do agree that when our job is done, we shold leave, but no sooner. Lay the groundwork, and let the iraqi's do the rest. And, from what i have heard, we are still working or it.

"Who in the hell do we think we are to impose western style democracy?"

4) As a response to Nadeon's comment. We, a freedom enjoying, liberty breathing country, should, (not choose) should, spread freedom and liberty. To help those who need help. Not just at home, but abroad. You think people being oppressed and mutilated *enjoy* it? Maybe, but I doubt it...

Does that clear it up? Seriously...


-Lucas
Reply #15 from JoeUser Forums Top
Better yet. To answer your question of: "Would you fight/die for iraq?"


I would fight for freedom where ever it lay. I would help lay a foundation for a better life for others. I physically can't fight at the moment. But, I can do other things. But, yes. I would fight.

Freedom and family. THAT is what i am for. THAT is my bottom line. Toss the pol. agendas and crap aside, Freedom and Family. I know that my family understands what i stand for. Yes, they would grieve. But, they would celebrate that i was dong something great. That i was doing something i wanted to do.
Reply #16 from JoeUser Forums Top
Here are the details given to me by my relative (Audie Blackwell -- step brother, from mothers 3rd marriage): (Despite what you might say about the fact that that marriage is now null/void. We still consider him family)

HHC 3rd Engineer Battalion (Combat) -- Fort Stewart, Georgia

HHC 40th Engineer Battalion (Combat) -- Baumholder, Germany

Charlie Company, 4th Engineer Battlion (Combat) -- Fort Carson, Colorado
Reply #17 from JoeUser Forums Top
I read through your blog.....

The blog was tactless... I didn't fully realize your circumstances... I apologize.

I do still stand by my point that I *never* meant anything against the soldiers. (The Reason behind my rant are that of bakerstreets recent blog) I also apologize to your husband.

I do hate war.
But, I love freedom.
And, despite my feelings agains war, I feel it is sometimes necessary.
Your comments have definantly made me re-think my "fairy tale" like view of soldiers.

My plan for a withdrawl: (Forgive me for any typos i missed, my fingers are starting to ache...)

1. Iraq must be able to maintain a basic domestic infrastructure. (Water system, Power System, Roads, Hospitals, etc.. "Utilities")

2. Iraq must be able to maintain an adequate military to defend itself w/o the need for large (or none) foreign forces. (Size depends on the size that can meet the needs w/o becoming "suffocating" to the citizens.)

3. Iraq must be able to maintain an economy. (Trade, etc...)

4. Iraq must maintain a viable diplomatic corps. (Enough to maitain reasonable relationships with other countries)

(Thats all i can think of at the moment)


--Lucas