Torture is wrong!...except when the CIA does it

Ah, the CIA, that wonderful beacon of democracy. They protect us from evil people like Jacobo Arbenz, the democratically elected President of Guatemala until 1954, Salvador Allende, the martyred defender of democracy in Chile, and Hugo Chavez, another one of those damn democratically elected Presidents. So it's only natural to allow them to use torture. I mean, they know what's good for us. At least, they knew that a 36 year civil war was good for Guatemala and a military dictator was good for Chile. So, although we have to make it look like we don't like torture, because we don't want another Abu Ghraib getting out and discrediting our puppet regime in Iraq, we still need to use it to protect us...somehow. So let's make a special exemption for the CIA, cause they're good at covering things up.

If you haven't figured it out yet, that last paragraph was sarcasm. South of the 49th, John McCain is trying to put in a ban on torture, with the support of practically the whole senate. Btu what does he know, he's only a victim of torture. All right, so they're gonna ban torture. But not so fast! Bush and Dick think it's a bad idea (wait, did I just use the words "Bush" and "think" in the same sentence?). Well, they want to make it look like they don't support torture, and make it look like the US government doesn't torture anyone, so they want a special exemption for the CIA. In other words, they still want to torture people. They just don't want the average Joe Soldier with a camera phone to do it. They want it swept under the rug, so their house is clean. Well, we can still see a suspicious lump under the rug.

This is how you build democracy? This is the shining beacon of democracy in the world? I don't think so. Of course, it was never about democracy or WMDs. It was all about getting a favorable investment climate for the world's second most evil company (I know they try, but United Fruit set the bar pretty high in the 50s), Halliburton. A few no bid contracts here, some shutting out companies not from the Coalition of the Killing, and we got some nice neocolonialism in action.

Chretien may have gutted the healthcare system and set up the sponsorship program, but at least he wasn't stupid enough to get us on board this train.
12,180 views 16 replies
Reply #1 Top
But I thought that the CIA's secrets were sacred and to expose even the tiniest of them was tantamount to treason? If there are agents out there who do engage in torture, wouldn't it be a violation of national security to expose them? Or does that only count for Valerie Plame?

The hilarious thing about all of this is, it wasn't that long ago that the liberals considered the entire CIA an enemy of the state... I guess, just like the Vietnam Vets, no one is the "enemy" unless the press dubs them as such. ;~D
Reply #2 Top
But I thought that the CIA's secrets were sacred and to expose even the tiniest of them was tantamount to treason? If there are agents out there who do engage in torture, wouldn't it be a violation of national security to expose them? Or does that only count for Valerie Plame?


When the hell did I say that?
Reply #3 Top
LOL Latour, I don't know if YOU ever did, but for some reason the left (who has always considered the CIA to be an enemy of the state) sure seem to have a love affair going with them now! ;~D
Reply #4 Top

Well, that is the difference between the north and south - 49th.  You see, down here, we can start a rumor and feed it real good!  And get simpletons to believe in it!  And then when they march on Washington, we merely confront them with "ok, show us some proof.  We will then try the individuals".

Whereas you just say "lynch the bastards!".

I will stay south.  I kind of beleive in the rule of law, and not the rule of innuendo.

Reply #5 Top
I haven't said anything about the Plame case. Basically, to me it isn't a real important issue. I'm not big on "scandal of the day" politics anyway. But if Karl Rove, or anyone else for that matter, did something wrong, gve them a fair trial and let the truth come out.
Reply #6 Top
So, um you do know that torture is illegal in the U.S., that no regulations or government policies condone it, and that when it's discovered the perpetrators are tried and--if found guilty--punished, right?

I mean, the Army was investigating the crimes at Abu Ghraib months before the media got wind of it and turned it into a big scandal.

And note that the McCain legislation does not actually prohibit putting severe mental and physical stress on detainees.

Once again. Torture is wrong. No branch of the U.S. government condones it or orders it. On the other hand, there are plenty of stressful interrogation techniques that are not torture, and the U.S. government properly reserves the right to apply those techniques when necessary to obtain information vital to national security and the safety of its citizens.
Reply #7 Top

Once again. Torture is wrong. No branch of the U.S. government condones it or orders it

Bad Stute! Arguing facts in an irrational debate!

Reply #8 Top
Once again. Torture is wrong. No branch of the U.S. government condones it or orders it

Bad Stute! Arguing facts in an irrational debate!


Which is why I chose to just play the sarcasm card.. not quite as entertaining as the news, but sometimes more factual. ;~D
Reply #9 Top
latour nice to see you in print. maybe you should research how many americans were tortured in time of war and write about that, or maybe you could write about great canadian war heroes in the last 40 years, that should be an intresting 1/100 of a page article.
Reply #10 Top
or maybe you could write about great canadian war heroes in the last 40 years, that should be an intresting 1/100 of a page article.


Maybe there haven't been many "Canadian War Heroes" but I've jumped and trained with a few Canadian Airborne Units... We had a good time!
Reply #11 Top
or maybe you could write about great canadian war heroes in the last 40 years, that should be an intresting 1/100 of a page article.


Oh MM. We've been through this before. In fact, I think it was one of your old articles. And to say such a thing only a few short days after the November 11th ceremonies here in Canada and in the U.S. I know you know the significance of the phrase, "Lest We Forget".

Anywho, during the last 40 years Canadians have served mainly as Peacekeeping troups. Now I realize that putting yourself between two very hostile enemies in an attempt to prevent more killing is not regarded as very heroic in the U.S., however up here in Canada we do consider it heroic.

Peace.
Reply #12 Top
10 by ParaTed2k
Thursday, November 17, 2005


Maybe there haven't been many "Canadian War Heroes" but I've jumped and trained with a few Canadian Airborne Units... We had a good time!


cream always floats to the top ted.
Reply #13 Top
#11 by UBoB
Thursday, November 17, 2005


Peace.


and peace to you. psttt?> wanna know a secret? I really do not think badly about canucks, I just love doing some nose tweaking time to time.
Reply #14 Top
psttt?> wanna know a secret? I really do not think badly about canucks, I just love doing some nose tweaking time to time.


I had a hunch.

Sometimes I get a bit defensive on this issue. I live very close to CFB Kingston and have seen my share of Canadian men and women heading out from there to places such as Afghanistan. Sometimes, they don't return. It can get a little emotional, and I certainly understand why you get upset at those that attack the war effort in Iraq.

L’hitra’ot
(something my wife always says to me as she leaves for work each morning.)
Reply #15 Top
"Coalition of the Killing" as opposed to the coalition of the "starve them to death for ten more years while we profit from the sanctions..."

One party profits from removing an evil man and freeing Iraq from sanctions, another profits from propping up the same evil man and using said sanctions to make a fortune, bilking the people who they halfhearted pretend to care about. The one ignorant thing I see in all these observations is the naive idea that SOMEONE isn't going to profit. Bullshit, frankly.

So, you decide. Do you profit from making pals with hussein, or do you profit from giving Iraq a real chance at Democracy. All the "torture" and white phospherous and halliburton concerns are either facetious or the product of living in a Disney fantasy. TotalFinaElf is no more pure than Halliburton, not by a long shot.
Reply #16 Top
Anywho, during the last 40 years Canadians have served mainly as Peacekeeping troups. Now I realize that putting yourself between two very hostile enemies in an attempt to prevent more killing is not regarded as very heroic in the U.S., however up here in Canada we do consider it heroic.
I agree and cunningly the "last forty years" eliminates the heroism of so many Canadians in the RAF who were saving our ass that sat on neutrality.