Is this person a liar? » Forum Post by Island Dog

Kingbee, you might hate it, but there were truly democratic elections in Iraq.

As for your idea of what racism is, it might not fit ever. I am no biologist, but I think that the distinction between black and white is not one of race (the two are too closely related). Thus hating blacks would not constitute racism using your definition.

Too bad.

As for Sistani, you seem to have a warped view of his involvement in Iraqi politics. Let me summarise it for you:

1. Sistani called for Shi'ite clerics to not become involved in politics.

2. Sistani supported and still supports the democratic elections and urged Shi'ites to vote, calling it a duty of every Shi'ite to participate in elections.

3. Sistani does not challenge Talabani's position as president but was instrumental in making Talabani president by urging Shi'ites to vote and work with the Kurds.

I'm afraid ayatollah Sistani is not on your side in this. He also supported the invasion, like Talabani. One is an Arab Shi'ite, the other a Kurd. But they seem to understand what they do is important, not what they are.

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neither he--nor they--speak for the overwhelming majority of iraqis or, for that matter, even a consensus of iragis.

He speaks for himself, but he has an opinion like you do. In this case, his carries a lot more weight. Sorry if I disregard yours since you are not there, have not been there, and dont speak for any Iranian living there.

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by proposing he does so, you've invalidated any claim you had to understanding what's going on in iraq-

Show me where I proposed he did? I said I RESPECT HIS MORE.

Please show me where I said he spoke for any Iraqi other than himself, much less a majority or all.

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Show me where I proposed he did? I said I RESPECT HIS MORE.

Please show me where I said he spoke for any Iraqi other than himself, much less a majority or all.

I believe he was talking to me.

I do believe that the elected president of a country can speak for the country.

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when discussing the opinions of the 'overwhelming' majority of iraqis, one will naturally focus on that group's opinon rather than a minority group. if the topic were 'overwhelming majority of kurdish iraqis' it would be a different story.

exactly the kinda sloppy ideologue thinking described in the previous comment.

You Pontificated, yet offered no supporting documentation. I offered some, and a very important one (you just dont like Presidents I see, not necessarily Bush). If you are going to debate, best to offer some supporting documentation, from reputable sources instead of just hot air.

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it's not at all racist because race has nothing to do with it

That is pure, unadulterated Bullshit! Uncle Tom has but one meaning (thank you Harriet beecher Stowe) as does Nigger. They are used to denigrate blacks and are blantantly racist. You are really stretching here. And you know you have lost.

Appologies to all for having to show kingbee his racism by using the n-word.

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btw i'm gonna nominate you for this decade's harriet beecher stowe 'most frequent use of the term uncle tom by anyone other than ms stowe' award.

Show me where I used it on my own and not quoting others. You are a racist! Damn. There goes the last of the respect I had for you.

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kingbee

Join Date 04/2004

+42

I am no biologist, but I think that the distinction between black and white is not one of race (the two are too closely related). Thus hating blacks would not constitute racism using your definition.

you may realize that black and white are two sides of the same coin (actually black and white males are much more alike than males are to females), but that hardly enables you to redefine racism. next you'll be trying to tell me that sexism can be expanded to include gay women who hate straight women or some such nonense.

As for Sistani, you seem to have a warped view of his involvement in Iraqi politics. Let me summarise it for you:

1. Sistani called for Shi'ite clerics to not become involved in politics.

2. Sistani supported and still supports the democratic elections and urged Shi'ites to vote, calling it a duty of every Shi'ite to participate in elections.

3. Sistani does not challenge Talabani's position as president but was instrumental in making Talabani president by urging Shi'ites to vote and work with the Kurds.

I'm afraid ayatollah Sistani is not on your side in this. He also supported the invasion, like Talabani. One is an Arab Shi'ite, the other a Kurd. But they seem to understand what they do is important, not what they are.

lemme provide an alternative view of sistani for you (you might also wanna check out the 'ask sistani' page for an additional peek into his soul):

1. sistani doesn't want clerics involved in politics at the moment. he don't need any more rogue competitors like al sadr.

2. sistani knows the us aint gonna pull out til iraqis have jumped thru all their hoops. what could enhance his prestige or add to his image better than demonstrating how many voters he could deliver to the polls?

3. it doesn't hurt sistani and it definitely works to his ultimate advantage to play along for the time being. if you truly think talabani could have attained or retain office except in this specific situation, perhaps it's time to give the psychotropics a rest?

sistani isn't on anyone's side but his own. it should be obvius to those running the show, but they prefer to see him as a sorta kindly old patriarch.

it should also be obvious to you (and prolly would be, if you could stop inventing new ways for the 'left
to scare yourself silly) even if everyone in iraq suddenly hadda moment of epiphany which made them stop killing each other and devote themselves to remaking iraq into the most democratic nation on earth, that in itself will do nothing to purge them of their mindless hatred of israel.

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if there was a truly democratic election in iraq today, talabani would be put outta office so rapidly your head (and his) wouldn't have stopped spinning by the time the ayatollah sistani was administering the oath of office to himself.

Aha! The old Hanging chad and fixed voting machines (by kurds in this case no doubt) trick! You are truly pathetic. Take a chill pill. And then reread your responses. if you delete most of them, I will gather more respect for you.

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but talabani wasn't elected by the overwhelming majority of iraqis and doesn't speak for them.

Neither was any US President. I think the largest majority any have gotten in the 20th century is about 60%? Hardly overwhelming.

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the reason it's not called non-acquired group membership attributism is cuz it's about one racial group persecuting another racial group on the basis that the first racial group believes itself superior because the other racial group is less than human.

I love you twisting in the wind! So you are saying that it is ok for blacks who are enslaved by the liberal white massa to practice racism on the Blacks who have left the plantation!

Now you are just getting funny!

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I believe he was talking to me.

But he quoted me. Hate does lead to confusion.

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you may realize that black and white are two sides of the same coin (actually black and white males are much more alike than males are to females), but that hardly enables you to redefine racism.

And what GOD gave you the sole right to define racism? I thought you did not beleive in a God, just secular Humanism. Which by that belief does give Andrew every right to define it,

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kingbee

Join Date 04/2004

+42

That is pure, unadulterated Bullshit! Uncle Tom has but one meaning (thank you Harriet beecher Stowe) as does Nigger. They are used to denigrate blacks and are blantantly racist. You are really stretching here. And you know you have lost.
Appologies to all for having to show kingbee his racism by using the n-word

dont blame me for your inability to act civily or responsibly, not to mention read and reason. here's what you said in response to leauki's assertion i was favoring one ethnic group over another by noting talabani--as a kurd--did not represent the overwhelming majority of iraqis:

When in doubt, they prefer certain ethnic groups' words over others.

Sounds kind of racist if you ask me. Like when people start calling a black an Uncle tom when they do not agree with his politics.

well drguy, put up or shut up. are the kurds black? are the shia white?

so what the hell are you talking about? why did you bring up uncle tom?

learn to read a lil more carefully. you might also wanna take a few moments to think before responding to avoid making an even bigger fool of yourself next time.

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kingbee

Join Date 04/2004

+42

So you are saying that it is ok for blacks who are enslaved by the liberal white massa to practice racism on the Blacks who have left the plantation!

white massas were hardly liberals. explain to me how black on black racism works again? is it like white on white racism which is has been such a global plague since before history began?

you gotta put the pipe down once in a while.

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Sounds kind of racist if you ask me. Like when people start calling a black an Uncle tom when they do not agree with his politics.

well drguy, put up or shut up. are the kurds black? are the shia white?

Racism is not only black and white kb. It is against a race. The Kurds are not the Shia. I never said one was black and white. I said it sounded racist.

Your turn for a lame response. you are just digging your hole deeper.

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kingbee

Join Date 04/2004

+42

The Kurds are not the Shia

and neither are a separate race. which was my point.

what did you do with the money?

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kingbee

Join Date 04/2004

+42

the kurds are greatly outnumbered by the shia who will vote en masse as instructed. it's got nothin to do with hanging chads.

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and neither are a separate race. which was my point.

what did you do with the money?

Prove it.

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the kurds are greatly outnumbered by the shia who will vote en masse as instructed. it's got nothin to do with hanging chads.

Must be since as you say they are outnumbered and won! Hanging chads no doubt.

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kingbee

Join Date 04/2004

+42

And what GOD gave you the sole right to define racism? I thought you did not beleive in a God, just secular Humanism. Which by that belief does give Andrew every right to define it,

i think i see the problem here. you're using god's dictionary. apparently you have the only copy too.

it isn't god who defines our words any more than he makes honky-tonk angels as hank thompson so sagely noted in the words to his song.

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kingbee

Join Date 04/2004

+42

Must be since as you say they are outnumbered and won

it was a representational compromise. there hasnt been a direct vote yet...except, apparently, in drguy's alternate universe.

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white massas were hardly liberals.

Really? The last time I heard a politician say the N-Word was Byrd. A leading liberal. Nice try. Unfortunately, you have no facts, and I am holding all the aces.

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i think i see the problem here. you're using god's dictionary. apparently you have the only copy too.

I am not using anyone's dictionary. I used secular Humanism which just torpedoed your argument without using God. Guess you really cant read then.

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it was a representational compromise. there hasnt been a direct vote yet...except, apparently, in drguy's alternate universe.

Hanging Chads did it since you assert he would not be president. I never asserted he was directly elected. Neither has any American president. How soon you forget.

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