Wizards, Warlocks, and Dragons....OH MY!!!

I used to play when i was a kid with my brother
We would spend hours doing dungeons and whatnot

He'd be the DM.

It is a fantastic game to build basic strategy and imagination and good plain fun.
My two boys are 4 and 3 but when they get old maybe I'll get a game for us all to play...

I never had a problem with it. Just like I don't have a problem with my kids reading books (Like C.S. Lewis Chronicles of Narnia) and others. As long as the setting is on another planet or so obviously sci-fi I don't mind.

I don't let them read or watch things like Harry Potter though. Because that is on earth and about a little boy who doesn't need God because he has God-like powers. I don't think it was written to be evil or anything like that....I just don't want them to get confused.

And the author (I forget her name) said she studied spell casting in the Wiccan religion (on a tv interview) so the spells could be "real." Yeah, no thanks. I don't think kids need to know "real" spellcasting....but that's just mo.

Yeah, I was a heavy player up until about 10 years ago or so. Made nearly $2,000 when I finally sold off all my books at a hobby/comic book shop. I do miss playing, more for the people than the game itself, though. It was a great way to spend an evening with friends.

Now, I'm a big fan of World of Warcraft. Very similar to D&D in nature. The game is the DM, though, so everyone gets to be a player. That was one downfall to D&D at times. Someone always has to be the DM and if nobody wanted to do it, the sessions always suffered.

My friends and I even came up with an idea for a DM-less arena style game and even hosted it once at a gaming convention (of course, our DM-less arena turned into a DM'd arena because we ran it for others - HAHA). We used a large mat with a map placed on it and miniatures along with the rest of the D&D trappings. It was a huge hit! Players loved the idea of being able to fight against each other and se how they did. We may have unknowingly helped seed today's online gaming world and player vs player concepts (delusions of grandeur? well someone had to come up with the idea first and 1989 was a long time ago) although it's more likely we were just doing what everyone else already wanted to do, too. Test yourself against other players without someone always having to sit on the side and act as referee.

Overall, though, I was a geek. I never sacrificed nerds, nor did I ever skulk city sewers in search of gold, though.

don't let them read or watch things like Harry Potter though. Because that is on earth and about a little boy who doesn't need God because he has God-like powers.

wow, yeah it's best to hide these things from kids. Might as well put superman movies on that list. You wouldn't want your kids thinking they could fly...

wow, yeah it's best to hide these things from kids. Might as well put superman movies on that list. You wouldn't want your kids thinking they could fly...

You missed the ENTIRE point....being Superman DOESN'T chant wiccan spells. Duh.. Wiccans are a RELIGION and not one I want my kids associating with....that's my right. You don't have to like it.

One of my favorite writers (Salvatore) started as a D&D player....it's what motivated him to write all those wonderful stories about Drizzit.....gotta love that elf!

There is pretty much nothing in the HP books that could be described as anything close to a How-to on casting spells. The closest they come is using pseudo-latin words for spell activators. The wiccan/witchcraft argument against HP is pretty absurd.

I have no problem with people not allowing their kids to read something, or watch a movie, or play a game or whatever... I just want people to make informed decisions. I've heard a lot of people use the witchcraft argument against HP for keeping it out of school libraries and such, but every time I've challenged the claim, none have been able to mount a real argument or provide a single instance from the book to back them up.

Books can not challenge religion. Nor can movies or games or anything else. All they can do is cause one to question, and questioning is always a good thing, because it means you're trying to understand, and understanding beats blind faith any day of the week.

I never had a problem with it. Just like I don't have a problem with my kids reading books (Like C.S. Lewis Chronicles of Narnia) and others. As long as the setting is on another planet or so obviously sci-fi I don't mind.

I just think it is strange that you will allow it IF it is on a different planet.
You are ultimately afraid they might like that better than the religion you have now, leave yours and become witches? But this won;t happen if the book or movie is based on another planet. Ok I see...

The wiccan/witchcraft argument against HP is pretty absurd.

Then someone should tell the author that before she gets on national tv and talks about her "research" material.

Books can not challenge religion. Nor can movies or games or anything else. All they can do is cause one to question, and questioning is always a good thing, because it means you're trying to understand, and understanding beats blind faith any day of the week.

I don't agree with this at all. But I am not going to debate it because I don't have the time to do it justice today.

However, I was speaking about children, not adults. Books can confuse children and if you don't think so then you must not have any kids. Kids often take fiction literally even though they can tell you with their mouths its not real. For instance, my son read a book about dinosaurs. It was fiction but had a "bad guy" dinosaur in it. When he has nightmares about that dinosaur he can tell me its not real, but he's still scared of it. He knows they don't exist now, but at night, well he isn't so sure.

Whether HP uses spells or not, I don't know because I don't know any spells. But I do know what I heard the author say with my own ears...you are right in that she didn't say she "used" spells from the wiccan religion, but that she "researched them" for the book so her spells would be "real."

That's enough for me to know I don't want my kids thinking HP is real, even if its only at night. Now if the author were to set the scene somewhere else, a diff planet, then that seems to give my kids enough separation to keep it from bleeding into their reality. But maybe its just my kids.....

"I don't let them read or watch things like Harry Potter though. Because that is on earth and about a little boy who doesn't need God because he has God-like powers. I don't think it was written to be evil or anything like that....I just don't want them to get confused."

Tova,
As a father of four (ages 9-boy, 7-boy, 4-girl, and an infant), and as one who has sat through countless screenings of HPs I, II, and III (and will see IV in November, probably IMAX), I can honestly say that not once have my children ever been deluded into thinking that they can cast magical spells, that God does not exist, or that they could do anything shown in those films. My kids understand fantasy vs. reality.
My daughter even wants to go as Hermione for Halloween; I have no problem with that, since I see the character of Hermione as empowering for young girls.

Give your kids more credit.

One more point, actually on the original topic:
I was a D&D fanatic from ages 11-15 or so. Loved it, bought the books, played the games, etc. Grew out of it, to be honest. Good times, good times...

It was fiction but had a "bad guy" dinosaur in it. When he has nightmares about that dinosaur he can tell me its not real, but he's still scared of it. He knows they don't exist now, but at night, well he isn't so sure.

It's all part of growing up. You can't shield them forever from everything or certain subjects you feel would corrupt them.

But why the concern HP would corrupt them and overcome the teaching and guidance you have laid? Parents correctly doing their job should be able to help kids overcome small hurdles like distinguishing spells in HP from real life.

I'm getting a picture of Rod and Todd Flanders from the Simpsons here

Your kids must be really young still, and if that's the case, then I agree they can become confused.  The flip-side to that though is as a parent, you still have the most influence in teaching them right from wrong as you see fit.  However if we're talking about kids older than 8 or 9, then you may be giving them too little credit on being able to separate fiction from reality when it comes to stories of wizards and monsters.

Nightmares are not an indicator that they think something is real.  What it means is their imaginations have taken hold of something and are playing with it while they sleep.  I have nightmares still from time to time that involve monsters and such.  I'm 23 and know no such thing exists as zombies or vampires... but sometimes after watching a horror movie or reading a horror book when in the right state of mind, I get nightmares.

I would suggest you try reading the books and learning for yourself if any of the fears or claims or true.  Researching "real" spells to give her fictional ones more flavor is not anything even close to introducing even the most basic concepts of the wiccan religion.

It saddens me when people protest things they don't have any real understanding of, that take small pieces of interviews  out of the context they're meant in and jump to conclusions.

I've read the books, and I have a foundational understanding of the whole wiccan thing as I have several friends who profess that particular faith, and all the fear and such over Harry Potter confusing kids over religion, or introducing such satanic things as witchcraft are entirely absurd.  Such assertions almost always come from people who have never read the books and haven't the first idea of what a wiccan is beyond what they see in horror movies of old ladies with crooked noses and broomsticks.

Also, the Narnia series... the first story is pretty firmly rooted on Earth, and the stories talk often about the cross over of magic into our world.  It's about normal kids on Earth who are pulled into Narnia to do great and epic things.  Are you worried about your kids trying to climb through old wardrobes, or ship paintings to get to other worlds?

JU ate my post!

I worship a God who says we are to have NOTHING to do with witchcraft, period. Not in any shape or form.

He did not say some fictional character on another planet can't do it. He said we can't. Now we know HP is fiction...but when my kids look at him they just see a normal kid like them, who is disobeying God and doing just fine. That's a mixed message in my book.

You may not agree. I get that.

the Narnia series... the first story is pretty firmly rooted on Earth, and the stories talk often about the cross over of magic into our world. It's about normal kids on Earth who are pulled into Narnia to do great and epic things.

Big difference.....all the witches are not on earth and CS Lewis wrote that to introduce really small kids to God...I love him and have read all his autobiographical stuff. Absalon (the Lion) is Jesus Christ and those are HIS words. Those stories are about the awesomeness of God, obedience, things like that.

But that's WAY off topic.

Zoomba,

Good call.

But our friend Tova is in a pickle. Her religion forbides her to view these movies or books so she can never find out that the religion is wrong about these books / movies.

This is why Blind faith has no place in religion yet why so many need it.

This is the worst of any religion: Blind Faith The willingness for followers to blindly follow the words of a leader or book. It is the death of free thinking. Now that I think about it this is my problem with Religion is general; most religions do not encourage free thinking. Religions don't want free thinkers they want people that will come to their church or whatever, give some $$, listen, make more subscribers, lather and repeat.
I am just boggled that Tova is following the letter of her religion without even opting to chance it that maybe they have it wrong about any of the stuff we were talking about.

Thank you Tova!
I was actually debating religion in an other thread, I think with you even?, but you have helped me remember why I shun it. It's weird when two things come together.

And I thought the Flanders on the Simpsons were based on fictional characters
(That's a TV show just in case you were told not to watch tv after 6:30pm cause demons come through the set)

she can never find out that the religion is wrong about these books / movies.

That is a very stupid comment. My "religion" as you call it was established by my Creator...who better than HE knows what is good and what is not for me and mine? And you obviously don't know anything beyond your OWN narrow view of God because all who have disobeyed him in the past and decided they knew "better" than He did, regretted it.. So excuse me for wanting to protect my children and not taking your word on matters of their spirit from you....I'll stick with the authority thank you very much.

I don't need to stick my hand in a meat grinder to know it won't turn out well. Call it blind faith in that meat grinder, or learning from the misfortunes of others. Whatever you need to make yourself feel better.

I am not so arrogant as to think I (as a finite being) can even begin to understand the workings of an infinite being. But that doesn't make Him wrong.

I am not so arrogant as to think I (as a finite being) can even begin to understand the workings of an infinite being. But that doesn't make Him wrong.

You should have enough courage to think for yourself and your Religion should give you enough room to try



I do have an honest question slightly off the HP topic:
Would you support a particular political leader if your religion (Bible, Pastor, ect..) told you to?

I was actually debating religion in an other thread, I think with you even?,

Nope.

We do need to stop taking over this thread though. Sorry again EWolf I'm out!

Hey each to their own

That I respect

The ultimate oxymoron of the extremely religious... God gives man free will and knowledge of Good and Evil (through the apple in Eden, but the fundamentalist forfeits all of that in the name of God.

That's like taking the greatest, most well-intended gift in all the Universe, and slamming it back in the face of the one who gave it to you.

And actually, the Bible says "thou shall not suffer a witch to live" and forbids the PRACTICE of witchcraft or sorcery. Nowhere does it say you can not view it, read about it, or discuss it. Just that you may not PRACTICE it. There is a pretty clear difference if we're going to go with literal interpretation of the Bible.

*looks around*

WTF!?

Post this, then 4 hours later, wham! *shakes head*

Well, glad you guys/gals could talk....