kingbee kingbee

I May Have Been Wrong About Cindy Sheehan

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I May Have Been Wrong About Cindy Sheehan

Mea Culpa, Mea Culpha, Mea Maxima Culpa

from JoeUser Forums

NOTICE: i realize myrrander staked out a position on sheehan's protest and then did a near 180° reversal; now i'm finding myself in the same position.  i'm sure some of yall are gonna see this as flip-flopping but...hey i gotta be true to myself and while i can't speak for him, i'm sure myrrander does too.  

on at least 2 (perhaps more) threads discussing the cindy sheehan protest outside the president's prarie chapel ranch in crawford, texas, i did my best to repudiate claims that ms sheehan was, at best, a blatant publcity seeker who was using her son's death as an excuse to embarrass her president.

at the time i was convinced i correctly perceived her actions as those of someone who was doing all she could to help the president see the errors of his policies.

while working on my next-to-newest article about the stones' concert  Link , in which i expressed my surprise about california governor schwarzenegger's willingness to share his vip booth with anyone who tossed $100k into his campaign chest, i suddenly realized ms sheehan could have easily approached her mission in a much more effective manner without any of the drama or antagonism.

i'd totally forgotten the bush pioneers (those who collect $100k for bush-related campaigns) and, especially, the rangers ($200,000).    all rangers get invites to the ranch as a reward for their efforts.  in fact, a number of them have visited the ranch while cindy was standing out in the sun making a fool of herself.  

if she REALLY wanted to talk to the president--and this wasn't just some big hollywood production directed by soros or warren beatty--she could very easily have become a ranger and been driven in a huge air-conditioned suv  right in thru the front gate.

for those of you who are bout to start flaming me about how she's just an ordinary soon-to-be-ex-wife who is highly unlikely to have a lotta money lying around (since she don't own any oil extraction equipment nor is she a government contractor or anything like that) please hold your mouse long enuff to face reality.

she has-or soon will have--collected a fairly large sum of money from the government which, i believe, owes her a death benefit as a result of her son being killed in iraq.  while i'm not sure exactly of the amount, it will surely be more than sufficient to pay for her ranger badge.

there's a right way and a wrong way to do things.   sadly, cindy chose the latter.

politics
20,466 views 64 replies
Reply #26 from JoeUser Forums Top
" ...but I've always found this argument "Clinton did it TOOOOOO" to be one of the stupidest, most idiotic and annoying in existance. I hear this one from school children a lot -- "so and so did it too, so that makes my doing it OK.""


Children tend not to listen, too. Did I say it was okay?

"Anyhoo, they all do it. I despise it, I hate it when Bush does it, but it is reality."


I said I didn't like it, and that it wasn't right, but it is reality. Maybe with some medication you could stretch that attention span past the first sentence. Maybe someday they'll see the folly of allowing you near those school children, being permanently stuck in that faux-brooding, teen-angst mode yourself.

P.S. for someone who claims to be a nihilist, you have a shitload of moral values. Where do they come from, I wonder?
Reply #27 from JoeUser Forums Top
As for the military "Survivors benefits"; she would receive the recently increased $100,000 death gratuity and $400,000 SGLI insurance. That would be a total of $500,000 or one half million dollars of tax free payments. In June of this year both the death gratuity and SGLI was increase retro actively for all combat continuing operations.


i wasn't certain whether those increases had gone into effect yet but that's much closer to what i figured was gonna be paid out. to whom it'll be paid--and when--may never be revealed.

thanks for providing the info.
The Political Machine 2024
Reply #28 from JoeUser Forums Top
I have had the unfortunate opportunity to spend time looking through my units SGLI forms. I had noticed that the majority of the single personnel just placed the mother, with both parents following at around 15% and fathers alone at around 10%. Must be a motherly thing, ya know. But I also had one year of my own SGLI, going to a niece that was preparing for Collage.


interesting observation. i'm guessing this applies to single women as well.
Reply #29 from JoeUser Forums Top
when Sheehan started getting image consulting and organizational help from politicaly polarized activist organizations, she ceased to be apolitical.


you think she was getting advice from both sides? i must be misreading you.
Reply #30 from JoeUser Forums Top
Lee
I had noticed that the majority of the single personnel just placed the mother, with both parents following at around 15% and fathers alone at around 10%. Must be a motherly thing, ya know.


Thanks for the insight, that is kind of interesting.
Reply #31 from JoeUser Forums Top
No can do. I believe what I believe and I believe that bush is disgusting and I cannot understand why anyone backs this crook and his associates. If you cannot take my arguments seriously, then go do your own research instead of disagreeing with me on blind principle. But, I guess that's what blind patriotism is all about.


And we believe what we believe and it's not on blind faith as you suggest. Next time try to "finish" reading Daiwa's reply, before engauging your mouth.

You need to understand and accept that some people disagree with you on the basis of their independent judgment & arrive at positions based on something other than blind "faith", dabe. I can't take your arguments seriously or consider any substantive exchange with you on a topic until you acknowledge that someone could agree with President Bush about something without being a "sheeple" or a "Bushie". 'Course, I understand you may not give a rip, but just the same.
Reply #32 from JoeUser Forums Top
drmiler, instead of wasting your energy to bash me, which is getting stupidly old, use your brain (such as it is) to make your own statements about the issue that kingbee posted. Sheesh.......... get a life.
Reply #33 from JoeUser Forums Top
drmiler, instead of wasting your energy to bash me, which is getting stupidly old, use your brain (such as it is) to make your own statements about the issue that kingbee posted. Sheesh.......... get a life.


I have one....do you?
Reply #36 from JoeUser Forums Top

drmiler, instead of wasting your energy to bash me, which is getting stupidly old, use your brain (such as it is) to make your own statements about the issue that kingbee posted. Sheesh.......... get a life.

I dont beleive he bashed you anywhere in the quoted response.  He merely pointed out where you did not read all of the response and therefore your response was not on point.

Reply #37 from JoeUser Forums Top
interesting observation. i'm guessing this applies to single women as well.


I really had not thought about it as male vs. female. This observation is from a mixed gender unit though. If I ever have to do it again, I'll keep an eye out for the male/female ratio. Some times it is interesting to see the human psyche at work. Even though woman do have more issues with there mothers as a whole, I would have to say that the motherly factor may be the same no matter if a person is male or female.

Even though I started my career in all male units and later mixed, I have been conditioned by the Army and the facts of leading troops to ignore, adjust, or utilize all the qualities and types of soldiers issued to me. That's probably why I can't remember if there is a difference. PS: It is also my observation that females in the Army do not stay single for very long.
Reply #38 from JoeUser Forums Top
drmiler, instead of wasting your energy to bash me, which is getting stupidly old, use your brain (such as it is) to make your own statements about the issue that kingbee posted. Sheesh.......... get a life.


"If" and I do mean if I was bashing you....."you'd" be the first one to know it! Now lets get back on topic.
Reply #39 from JoeUser Forums Top
I dont beleive he bashed you anywhere in the quoted response. He merely pointed out where you did not read all of the response and therefore your response was not on point.


I beg to differ. I read the entire response, and I responded as I saw fit. I have yet to see the dear dr respond to kingbee's article, instead of commenting on my response, with any thought that he may generates independently, if at all possible.
Reply #40 from JoeUser Forums Top
Now lets get back on topic.


You're kidding, right?
Reply #41 from JoeUser Forums Top
i'm sorta at a loss here.

either karma's come early this year and all yall are puttin me on as payback...or there are some among us who truly have no problem with requiring or permitting (no difference between the two is there?) anyone--much less a parent whose son or daughter was killed in combat--to buy an audience with the president.
Reply #42 from JoeUser Forums Top
Hey Kingbee, Money talks. It bought Miss Cindy her 15 minutes of fame, why shouldn't it buy a Ranger 15 minutes with the president. My boys were at the Boy Scout Jamboree where he spoke, and that wasn't free either. ;~D

I refuse to beat my head agaisnt a wall just because of a fact of life.
Reply #43 from JoeUser Forums Top
Hay, KB.

Someone is paying for all those Anti-War TV ads with Cindy crying elephant tears on. I am sure they cost more then a presidential donors visit. It may seem rude to require cash, but both sides do it (unfortunately) and Cindy already got the chance to talk with the President free (a courtesy that not all families are afforded).

That is why I feel no sympathy for her. What she is doing now is completely political, so IMO she should pay the political dime system that the Democrat and Republican parties have required. I think it is a dirt system.
Reply #44 from JoeUser Forums Top
No can do. I believe what I believe and I believe that bush is disgusting and I cannot understand why anyone backs this crook and his associates. If you cannot take my arguments seriously, then go do your own research instead of disagreeing with me on blind principle. But, I guess that's what blind patriotism is all about.


Talk about blind... hatred, that is. "Bush is disgusting" is the most ridiculous "debating point" or whatever you want to call it I've ever heard. You're far more juvenile in your thinking than I previously suspected. If you can't discuss an issue because it has George's cooties on it, you are in a very sad place and all I can do is pity you and hope you get well someday.

Cheers,
Daiwa
Reply #45 from JoeUser Forums Top
I beg to differ. I read the entire response, and I responded as I saw fit. I have yet to see the dear dr respond to kingbee's article, instead of commenting on my response, with any thought that he may generates independently, if at all possible.


Damn! You are positively civil! I am impressed!
Reply #46 from JoeUser Forums Top
You're far more juvenile in your thinking than I previously suspected.


Yea, but she was polite about it, wasn't she?
Reply #47 from JoeUser Forums Top
As far as fundraising goes, every president (or any high-level politician, for that matter; the money for their campaigns has to come from somewhere, like it or not) who ever sat in the office is guilty of perhaps a little shadiness or less-than-up-front dealings. All I can say for Bush on the issue is that at least he wasn't pimping out Lincoln's bedroom to the highest bidder.

Cindy Sheehan may have started out with an honest complaint and with sincere beliefs as to her argument. However, the Left has grabbed hold of her and, as with everything else they touch, corrupted her and her message, making them just another cause, just another way to bash the president and his Iraq policy. *Yawn*.
They've used her for fundraising (even some right-wing groups are jumping on this bandwagon--grassfire.com is sponsoring a drive to place pro-Bush and pro-war signs in every yard in Crawford....at a cost of fifteen bucks a pop), which is, to me, unconscionable considering her message. Why don't they just dig up her son and stand him up on a stick like a scarecrow and say "Look what he did to this poor soldier! Pay us a hundred dollars for the right to add your name to a petition to end this madness!" They're prostituting her son and his memory, and she's letting it happen. In fact, she's going right along with it.

Also, noone forced her son to put his name on the dotted line....we don't have a draft, and noone came and dragged him out of his home and put a gun in his hand, no matter what Richard Dreyfus has to say about the matter. The guy joined of his own free will, knowing full well that his time may come. He was an adult and he did what he did, and, by doing what she's doing Cindy Sheehan is dishonoring his memory, along with the memory of the others who've died, and the actions of those who lay more on the line in one day over there than she did in her ditch in Crawford.
Reply #48 from JoeUser Forums Top
It bought Miss Cindy her 15 minutes of fame, why shouldn't it buy a Ranger 15 minutes with the president. My boys were at the Boy Scout Jamboree where he spoke, and that wasn't free either.


It may seem rude to require cash, but both sides do it (unfortunately) and Cindy already got the chance to talk with the President free (a courtesy that not all families are afforded).


What she is doing now is completely political, so IMO she should pay the political dime system that the Democrat and Republican parties have required. I think it is a dirt system.


i realize money buys access. big contributors or heavy-duty fundraisers may not come right out and openly admit what they're doing is inside track investing; they don't have to. cuz we all know what's up.

do you see enough of a difference here that you'd be willing to have whichever weasels run that fund-raising, pioneer- and ranger-awarding machine offer ms sheehan some sorta 'loss of son' discount? or do you feel it's only fair she have to pay outta any money she receives as compensation in the same full amount as any other shady supplicant?

All I can say for Bush on the issue is that at least he wasn't pimping out Lincoln's bedroom to the highest bidder.


especially since he and the lincoln bedroom have enjoyed such a long and intimate relationship. and it's still there.
Reply #49 from JoeUser Forums Top
And we believe what we believe and it's not on blind faith as you suggest. Next time try to "finish" reading Daiwa's reply, before engauging your mouth.


technically she was engaging her fingers.
Reply #50 from JoeUser Forums Top
technically she was engaging her fingers.


Technically speaking you are correct. But they were still put into gear "before" her brain was.