Testing Out Linux. Part 1

A windows users' journey into the world of Linux

I've known about GNU/Linux , and the whole open source thing, for sometime now. About a year ago I bought the 'Dummies Guide to Fedora Rore1' book. Hoping to get more into using Linux and also as my girl friend worked on Saturdays (the only day I could go to visit) I spent a lot of time in the town, so this book gave me something to do. I spent a few weeks flicking through it reading bits and pieces I then decided to try it out. I installed it on my test PC an old PII 350Mhz 128ram 3Gb drive. The install process of Fedora is quite easy with a nice GUI installer guiding you through what packages you want installed etc. After it had done its business installing, about 45-60mins install time, I was thrown into the deep end, with a rather dated looking desktop theme, my first mission was to connect to my main XP PC.
'Ok, how do I do that? Ah ha network tool. Oh, no card installed! Humm ok! Well I tried, where's my XP CD?'

So my first venture into Linux wasn't too successful.

After getting married and moving house I thought it would be great to have a file server for our music etc. I had already set up a network between my PC, my wife's, and her Mac. So adding a file server should be easy enough. Again out comes the old PII install Fedora on it again. This time I was more careful what I installed as I needed more space rather than toys, after the install I checked the space left on the 3Gb drive, only 400 or so Mb. Well there goes my conception that Linux was a smaller operating system than XP.
So now I'm on the hunt for a smaller distro, so google for 'lightweight Linux distro' all I come up with are the tiny distros eg50Mb. What I was after was something a little more fuller but not bloated. Then I came across Distrowatch.com in the packages list Ubuntu had all I needed, apache, php, samba, etc. and its on one CD (Fedora Core 3 is 4 CD's).
So set it up downloading overnight. The next night I had planned to install it (as long it downloaded ok, which it did). The next night I burnt it to CD and then got carried away designing a cover to print onto the CD. That was a week ago, last night I actually did the install. Even though it hasn't got a fancy installer like Fedora I actually found it easier than I thought to install. The only hard bit would have been disk partitioning but as it had Fedora on it previously I just reformatted the partitions that were already there. The only down side to the installation was the time, over 2 hours later I eventually had the login screen in front of me, (my only worry was I didn't remember putting the root password in?) anyhow login fine.
First objective, check root password, 'Great the same as my login password, really secure!' So promptly change it and then have a little nose around, the GUI still isn't as nice as XP or OSX it still needs some work, I then check the network, well the internet works so looks hopeful.
Next objective set up shared folder on the network. 'Oh, samba isn't installed'. At that point I decided to leave it for another day, as it was an hour later than I was expecting due to the lengthy install time.

More progress to follow as it happens.
48,125 views 80 replies
Reply #1 Top
Ubuntu is a great starter distro. And as for it not looking quite as nice as OSX or XP, that's where you're wrong.... It all depends on the window manager. For example, take a look at the Enlightenment E17 window manager.
Reply #2 Top
Ubuntu come with Gnome as the default window manager. Not the most attractive thing in the world. Fortunately, Linux is extremely customizable so you can choose a windo manager that suits you better and customize it to look pretty much any way you want.

I use Slackware Linux and Fluxbox is my primary window manager with windowmaker being my second favorite. Linux isn't Windows. Give yourself some time to learn how to use it and you may well find yourself hooked.
Reply #3 Top
I hope you enjoy Fedora. Everybody's got their personal favorite they settle into, Fedora Core 3 is mine. Gives you the choice of the KDE, Gnome or the Xfce interface, and comes with a ton of software. Keep us posted!
Reply #4 Top
I've tried Fedora Core 3 - it seems every time I install it and use it I go back to XP becuase for some strange reason Linux makes me dizzy.
Reply #5 Top
Linux makes me dizzy.


Maybe you just need to set you monitor's refresh rates.

I've been using SuSE 9.2 Pro. So far it's the best Linux I've tried. Very easy to get & install apps and updates with YaST. I haven't tried Fedora Core. I'd like to set up a Linux file server at home.
Reply #6 Top
I don't think it has anything to do with my refresh rates. In windows I let Windows handle the refresh rates not my monitor.

Anyhow - everytime I try to adjust my display mode in Linux I get a blank screen. I use 800x600 in windows and Linux - everytime I try to adjust in Linux I have to re-install Linux due to the fact I get a blank screen.

So much the better - I prefer XP anyhow.
Reply #7 Top
You reinstall because you couldn't get X set right? Geez, all you have to do is go to the console, edit the X config file and you're good to go.
Reply #8 Top
Dosen't matter Mason - the truth is XP is just plain better. XP supports more hardware, generally is easier to set up to use, has more programs written for it, has better games, and things are easier to install.

Did I mention XP is easier to skin as well?
Reply #9 Top
Last i check, Linux supports WAAAY more hardware than XP. Look at all the system architectures it was designed for including sparc, pcc, good 64 bit versions, ps2, xbox =P, macs. U name it, linux runs it.

When it comes to set up it depends on the distro. Suse and Redhat are just as ez to set up as windows (the process is fairly automatic and itll be setting up some hardware)

When it comes to more programs, its no contest Linux wins again with its WEALTH of choices for just about every application. While you can use only the windows desktop enviornment on winxp, I have the choice of kde, gnome, xfce as full blown DE's......not to mention WMs like fluxbox, enlightenment, blackbox, iceWM which come to me off the top of my head.

When it comes to games, the default games that come with linux blow away solitare and hearts and the like. And with Cedega there isnt a commercial game that I have that cant play on linux. (in fact world of warcraft plays better on linux) However cedega can be hard to configure and use if you dont know what your doing. SO ill give you the game argument (although that argument will be null and void soon)

When it comes to skinning, windows loses again. WM's like kwin, GTK, metacity make it just as easy, if not easier to skin the millions of DEs and WMs mentioned.

There are some benefits windows have over linux (software dependencies, Office 2003 - even though i got office xp to work). The ones you listed are either weak or simply not true. You just have to be willing to learn to do some of the advanced stuff.

And take into consideration the advantages of Linux (filesystem, customizability, speed, stability, loads of choices, optimization, and of course its free) Its worth the learning experience.

Trust me I know the console might look like some type of application that you would want some deity to come in and crush for the sake of righteousness............but in reality its not bad and it pwns all.
When something is harder to use..... it must be for some reason. Linux is better you just gotta learn it.
Reply #10 Top
No thanks - I'll stick to XP.
Reply #11 Top
the truth is XP is just plain better


Kona, you're probably better off not using words like: "the truth is..." because in the end there is no real truth on this subject, only experiences and opinions - both very subjective. Even in the unlikely event that something was demonstrated true on a particular day, it's just as likely to be wrong the next.

Live & let live.



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Reply #12 Top
Preach.

The less you know, the least you are in a position to say whats true. I aint gonna sit there and say windows and linux is better (ok ill say i like linux better). But i will tell you that the advantages u put under windows are just plain false. There are advantages to each OS since an OS is a very complex piece of software with many different approaches.

But i will tell you some truths
linux file system = better
linux choices (applications/distros/hardware) = more
linux skinning options = more
linux stability = better
linux speed = faster
linux bloat = less

I wont tell you linux is better though. Its just my conclusion.
Reply #13 Top
I like both.


.....and I want a Mac, too!
Reply #14 Top
The less you know, the least you are in a position to say whats true.


Sorry, but unless you know everything you're in no position to say what's true or false either.

Even on such a narrow topic such as x86 operating systems there's no-one I'd believe if they said they knew everything about the subject.

But i will tell you that the advantages u put under windows are just plain false.


Only as far as you think you know....

Your arguments would be better supported by more specific facts eg benchmarks for filesystem comparison. Note also that 'more choices' is not always better...



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Reply #15 Top
Wow, wasn't expecting such a philosophical debate over something like this

To each his own: Kona, at least you've tried Linux and decided it wasn't for you, for which I believe you should be commended. There are so many who write off things without even trying them. I used to tear into both Linux and Mac's vehemently, but have become rather fond of both. Again, just personal preference. Perhaps you'll give Linux another shot in the future and enjoy it when it's easier to manage; perhaps not.

Stick with what suits you the best, with what you're most productive and comfortable under
Reply #16 Top
Thank you. I like the whole idea of Linux but I prefer XP because it's what I know and what works for me. Maybe after some more research and learning I will try Linux again.
Reply #17 Top
Hay! I wrote this article to let you know my experience with Linux both good and bad. This wasn't meant for the start of another 'I love Linux and hate windows' or vise versa, slaging match. As it all comes down to personal preference, Linux is free but nearly everyone knows how to use windows, so which is better?
And as for
Linux choices (applications/distros/hardware) = more.... Linux bloat = less
Unless you know exactly where to look e.g. SourceForge.net, windows applications are much easier to find and install,
and less bloat one quote i found says 'Fedora Core3 can use 7Gb on a clean install'. Now lets check requirements for Microsoft 1.5Gb space required and now add office just for fun, 1.9Gb with another 390Mb optional, totaling 2.29Gb. i know its not small but what else do normal users require?

Like I said before personal opinion what suits you best? You can't say someone’s opinion is wrong!
So share opinions and love and not arguments and unhappiness
ok enough of the cheesy 70's stuff but please respect each others opinions

Reply #18 Top
Yeah it would be best if this doesn't go into some Linux vs Windows debate. Eventually mac users will come sniffing in and all hell will break loose..............



But.....

I gotta respond

I may not have created the x86 architecture nor the OS's that run off of it (heck I dont even run x86 on my linux box). But I do know my software and I have used a wide variety of it. As I said, the less you know the least you are in a position to say whats true.

Only as far as you think you know....


No this is as far as I know I know
Every thing I listed was based not only on my usage and experience but off of expert opinion and benchmarks.

file system --- ive tried ext2 ext3 reifser and they all have lead to less fragmentation/ faster file transfers etc then nfts, fat, and fat3
linux stability ---- this is basically a fact to everyone except those researchers microsoft pay off to say otherwise. Servers run for much longer and with least problems when put side by side.
linux speed ---- ive timed both OSes on startup time, application loading, and staight up numbers crunching and yes linux wins all of them.

with the other facts, of course more choices doesnt = better. I tend to think it usually does..... but never did I say that it was better, just that there are more choices. As skinner said:

the truth is XP is just plain better. XP supports more hardware, generally is easier to set up to use, has more programs written for it


I simply assumed that he thought more choices = better. But hey I will never say linux is better than windows. I will say that I think linux is better than windows. Because until i can actually sit there and look at the source code side by side (wont happen with windows) then i cant come up with a definitive answer.
Which OS you like is your opinion and I will never win against someones opinion. But I have listed bare bone facts in my comparison between the two OSes. And there are barebone facts when it comes to windows advantages (just look at wifi).

Oh and id find it much harder to find my favorite windows applications compared to linux. I mean since I used slackware gentoo, debian and its many variants, the OS gets the application for me =P. just type in "emerge firefox" in a gentoo console and bam I got firefox.

Yeah when it comes to fedora and any other rpm based distro.... bloat becomes But you have to remeber what your getting rpm linux clean installs. Your getting everything. From things like xorg to things like 5 different astrology programs. But wow 7 gigs on Fedora is VERY impressive (in a bad way). I got to try it one day and see what the hell they are putting in there. My gentoo system is about 1.5 gigs and i got everything I need (Office XP, firefox, thunderbird, programming tools, skinning applications, media player, gnutella clients, chatting application, you name it ). My windows system has the same types of applications and nothing more and takes up 9.2 gigs

Yeah Id prolly say windows is better than some of the distros out there (fedora, red hat, suse, mabey mandrake) because they kinda of take away from linux actually is by changing it and stuffing it full of crap.

Aww crap my post is prolly 2 long for anyone to read =P. I dual boot and enjoy windows (and all of these great stardock apps) and linux. Ill tell you nothing on linux comes close to objectdock and windowsFX (though the rest of the apps are matched)
Reply #19 Top
And dont worry. Im far from the zealous type. I just dont like when people tell me that windows is just "plain better" and they expect me to accept that.
Reply #20 Top
I never really actually put in my opinion on which was better in my experiance . I would say windows because i have used it more, Linux is more complex and so requires learning and mac osx is simple to use for average user but as its bsd(unix) based requires learning like Linux. Another point macs can have stability problems too . My wifes as about as unstable if not more so then mine or her pc. So im not trying to change anyones mind i reckon windows is 'plain better' (at the moment untill our mac becomes more stable or i learn more about linux)
just stirring
Reply #21 Top
Linux has come along way in a very short time, where it differs from Windows is the choice, there are thousands of distros available, however the main distros are condensed down to approx 10 - 20, as a IT project manager I get to test quite a few, each has its strengths and weaknesses, it really depends what you want to do, my suggestion is try a few, then make your mind up from there. Personally for plain XP replacement specifically for multimedia use, I would sya by far the best to use is Linspire, and it looks and feels every bit a good as XP, and for people who are not very IT literate it has a great install tool, called click n run. Install time for Linspire approx 20 minutes, has manuy applications which come with Lindows, sorry Linspire, which actually give it more of an OS X feel, the click n run allows you to download a vast array of software, all of which has been checked to make sure it will work with Linspire/Linux, you just go to the warehouse, click on whatyou want, Linspie downloads and installs the software, while you have a cup of tea. Hardware support is very good, I have just loaded it on a new PC and not a problem. As for broadband, Linspie is optimised for Broadband, no setup required, in fact it picked up my router and surfboard modem without a hitch.
For business use or power users, my picks are SUSE 9.3 and Sun Java Desktop Release two, both of which use the SUSE core, and Gnome desktop, SJD alos run on solaris. Currently I run Sun Java Desktop, SUSE and SJD come with many Novel and sun products as part of the package, which make networking relatively easy, working with Windows is no problem, even the likes of Zen application server and group wise are now shipping with these distros, and the evolution email client is now at a stage where it a strong rival for Lotus notes and Outlook.
I still run windows XP on all my systems, mainly because of the fact that many industry specific applications will not run on linux, even with wine and other windows emulation packages. I also have a mac for similar reasons, and because my brother gave it to me, and I can sayeach has its good points and uses, One rerason I still use XP is my addiction to skinning, and in this case due to Object desktop still being the king of this market. Having said that I am still able to work with skinning products on linux, just takes a little more time learning the different applications and where to find them, with OD its already there. As for skinning sites for linux Freshmeat is a great site if not the best. So if you love skinning and want to try linux, go for it , just don't throw away you xp.

I find Fedora release 3 impressive, as is ubuntu, and Xandros, mandrak and...... although they are not as polished overall or as easy to use as SUSE, SJD and LINSPIRE. I have just set my mother up with a reconditioned PIII laptop, and have loaded Linspire, mainly because it has all the software she wanted, and she found using on my system very easy to us, plus if she needs some software, she goes to click and run and Linspire does the rest, with windows I have to run with her over the phone. So as the add says Linspire is so easy my granmother can install and use it.
Hope this helps guys.
Reply #22 Top
The best and in my opinion only way to learn Linux is to install it and use it. SImply reading about it without actually having it installed is nearly useless. I've been using Linux since 1995 so am tad biased but in my OPINION once you have learned how to use it Linux is a far more powerful OS giving you total control over your system.
Fedora is a very bloated distro, there are many that have little/no bloat including LiveCD versions that fit on a 50Meg credit card CD.
They both have their place and Windows is a good choice for someone who doesn't want to learn anything new, have more control over their system, and is willing to put up with virus, adware, and spyware problems and all the extra software needed to deal with them which I consider unnecessary bloat.
But that's just me.
Reply #23 Top
linux speed ---- ive timed both OSes on startup time, application loading, and staight up numbers crunching and yes linux wins all of them.


If you ever get a chance time Fedora Core 3 vs Windows XP. Even with all services turned off - those you really don't need - XP wins hands down. My XP system boots in less than a minute and a half.

They both have their place and Windows is a good choice for someone who doesn't want to learn anything new, have more control over their system, and is willing to put up with virus, adware, and spyware problems and all the extra software needed to deal with them which I consider unnecessary bloat.


I don't consider one aV scanner and one active spyware scanner and 2 adware/bot scanners as bloat. I have never gotten a virus or adware or malware while employing the proper programs to fight them. The programs do not take much space or memory.

As far as Linspire - forget that distro unless you like paying for programs and packages that others offer for free.
Reply #24 Top
I don't consider one aV scanner and one active spyware scanner and 2 adware/bot scanners as bloat. I have never gotten a virus or adware or malware while employing the proper programs to fight them. The programs do not take much space or memory.

One man's bloat is another man's necessity. I've never gotten a virus or adware or malware either, and I also don't need to run those extra programs which DO use resources.


My XP system boots in less than a minute and a half.

Sounds about right, but then my Slackware boots in just about 30 seconds. There are ways to easily speed up boot time besides just turning off unneeded services. Hotplug can really slow down the boot process. If you configure for the drivers you need to be loaded, disabling hotplug can shave a pretty fair amount of time off booting.

I would also point out that if one wants to honestly time the differences between windows/linux boot times you have to take into account the fact that windows presents a desktop before it has finished loading all apps and services. This gives many the false impression of a faster boot, which is what was intended.

If one wants to try a pretty easy to use Linux distro that handles pretty much everything automatically and requires less manual interaction check out SimplyMepis. It's a LiveCD distro which can easily be installed on your HDD with a mouse click.
Reply #25 Top
Dont forget recompiling the kernel with less modules
My gentoo start up is somewhere along the line of 15 seconds. (From selecting it on my bootloader to loading up enlightenment and being ready to go. It effin zooms!! You really gotta work at it to get boot times like that though.

In fact I would recommend slackware for beginners. just stick it in, fdisk, do a full install, and put the bootloader in the mbr. Its install is really simple. You get a lot of software and its smaller then 3 gigs for the install. It will start you off in a console, which is intimidation, but just type in startx and your good. Yes it is a linux distro for advance users, but i would recommend it to newbs more than anything else