Stock Market proves Bush Social Security plan wrong answer!

The correct place is in ADDITION to the guarantees of Social Security and pensions.

This is exactly the plan set up for government employees today. It's called the Thrift Savings Plan (TSP), for which a specified amount of income, by dollar or percentage, is set aside as tax exempt income into this retirement plan. Also, we pay into SS, which would assist if not totally guarantee some income to future retirees.

I plan on retiring in about 12 years. I expect to have accumulated into my TSP account about $150-250K, which is more than alot of retirees, but in no way, enough to subsidize my present standard of living for any significant length of time, ie 10-20 years after my retirement, which is what I'd expect to live after I retire, at age 66. SS, I would hope, would enable me to be reasonably sure that at least I'd have something coming in. It all depends on how I handle my money. But, admittedly, I'm fairly lucky for having this. Most workers will not.

COL, it's a good plan. It will hopefully keep me off of welfare in my retirement, but give me more than a subsistence, and substandard of living. Doing away with SS entirely will offer absolutely no guarantees for my retirement, which I spent my entire career working as a good citizen. I shouldn't just be thrown to the dogs if the stock market crashes, and my appx. $200K just disolves just before retirement.

Bush does not understand the stock market. He didn't understand baseball. He didn't understand oil companies. He was born with a silver spoon that enables him to not ever have to worry about shit. Having the likes of him making these kinds of money decisions for the rest of us is scary, to say the least. I guess one thing he does seem to understand, with the help of his bosses, is how to pad the pockets of the CEO's on Wall Street, for instance, who would stand to make windfall profits on his retirement scheme.

dabe

AMEM Good Luck!

There's the buzzword mentality again. Prs. Bush's plan is not perfect, I grant you, but any plan submitted before Congress is subject to change by the committees and houses. There is nothing requiring anyone to use the "individual" portion of their Social Security on the stock market. The point here is CHOICE (something the democrats were all for, until Prs. Bush uttered the word). Every nay sayer I read and hear on this subject uses the buzzword "Stock Market" as if it was the only form of investment out there. What is to stop any individual from using the individual portion of their Social Security exactly as you decribe?

For me, I think they should just take the whole Social Security program and replace it with the TSP.

The problem is that the Bush plan DOES not make good investment sense because no person can know what the market will be like at the time of their retirement. What happens if the market is down and the retimenent income floor is not there? The fact they had a CHOICE will not change the negative impact in their income! To insert this market risk into the base of a persons retirement income is not sound retirement planning. In addition, the individual accounts DO NOT solve the funding issues of Social Security and in fact make them worse. The presidents plan is not only not perfect it is a BIG MISTAKE! . The place for investments in stocks, bonds or real estate is OVER AND ABOVE the base of Social Security benefits!

No, the problem is the current plan is going belly up, and the Congressional Democrat plan is... Um.... er... Oh yeah, they have no new ideas, only old stupidity.

The point is, Prs. Bush's plan may not be everything we'd want, but it is better than what we will have if we listen to the stone wallers and naysayers.

Since it isn't the job of Congress to sit around waiting for word from the White House, and the Republicans aren't going to come up with an alternate plan that contradicts Prs. Bush's plan, the only things left are to see what the Houses of Congress will do with the bill; or sit around doing absolutely nothing but whining and looking like idiots (as the Congressional Democrats are doing).

As long as Americans are content to blame Bush for everything and let Congress slide, Congress will keep accepting their role as "followers".

The problem is that the Bush plan DOES not make good investment sense because no person can know what the market will be like at the time of their retirement. What happens if the market is down and the retimenent income floor is not there?

I love how you put your spin on this! That is "exactly" why you will only be allowed to invest NO MORE than 4% total!

ParaTed2K

The Bush individual account plan does NOTHING to solve the issue you mention. You say it is not everything - It is NOTHING and in fact it makes the Social Security shortfall larger because of the trillions that would be diverted into the individual accounts. What needs to happen is we need to increase the retirement age because people are living longer and increase the money going into the trust fund so it will be able to pay the benefits promised.

drmiler

That 4% is 1/3 of the Social Security tax. It will divert trillions from the trust fund which is needed to pay the benefits of people who are too old for the individual accounts. In addition, it DOES NOT FIX THE PROBLEM Bush is talking about! Who would suggest a sloution to a problem that makes the problem worse? Answer George W. Bush.

sure ColGene, take more from people while guarenteeing fewer will ever benefit from it. Good plan.

You sound more and more like an idiot Congressional Democrat everyday.

It is better to tax those who have more then they can ever spend a little more then to deny millions of people the retirement they NEED to live! I do not care what you call it but I know is is the right course of action for America!

ParaTed, and DrMiler,

Why did you bite?  I did not read the article, but I read the first line of the first response and knew exactly what it was about. and that it is 100% wrong.

So why do you bother?

It is better to tax those who have more then they can ever spend a little more then to deny millions of people the retirement they NEED to live! I do not care what you call it but I know is is the right course of action for America!

Another word from the completely ignorant!! I figured you would at least know that income has nothing to do with the ability to pay. Cash flow is everything!! The guy who makes $10 million, but whose cost of living is $10.5 million is far less able to afford an extra expense than the guy who makes $20,000 and lives on $18,000.

And please don't prove your stupidity by saying anything braindead like, "the rich guy should be able to live on less than $10 million", because news flash to the numbskull, IT'S NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS (and especially not the Government's Business) HOW MUCH THE RICH GUY LIVES ON.... It is HIS money, NOT YOURS!!!!!!

So why do you bother?

Because it is an open forum and once in awhile ColGene's ignorance is fun to mess with.

I'm glad that some people have faith in the SS system as it stands today. I'm glad that some people have recieved enough money out of the system to retire on or to supplement their retirements. That being said....I don't think I can count on getting back 1/2 of what I have paid into the system. All studies show that by the time I retire or my husband retires, the system will be either bankrupt or paying out only 1/2 to 1/3 of what was anticipated.

So I would rather stick with TSP or other retirement plans. It should be my choice though....don't you think? If I'm not going to see the money, why not lable it more accurately...."Tax" I don't have much choice in my taxes....or my SS.

drmiler That 4% is 1/3 of the Social Security tax. It will divert trillions from the trust fund which is needed to pay the benefits of people who are too old for the individual accounts. In addition, it DOES NOT FIX THE PROBLEM Bush is talking about! Who would suggest a sloution to a problem that makes the problem worse? Answer George W. Bush.

I think you math is screwed! There is no possible way in hell that "4%" is 1/3 of the SS tax! I'm sure glad that you don't do my books.

ParaTed, and DrMiler, Why did you bite? I did not read the article, but I read the first line of the first response and knew exactly what it was about. and that it is 100% wrong. So why do you bother?

Just because he's an asshat!

drmiler - again you show you are DUMB. Social Security Tax rates are 6.2 % on the individual and 6.2% paid by the employer. That is 12.4% in total. Thus, 4% is about 1/3 of 12.4%. HOW CAN YOU BE SO STUPID?

Everything in my blog is not only correct but any financial planner would agree that the analysis is sound. The Bush plan has no saving grace except for the fact that it would provide for the possibility of intergenerational transfer of wealth. This would happen if there were resources in the individual account at the death of the owner. Under Social Security that transfer is limited to survivor benefits paid to the spouse or dependent children after the death of a worker receiving Social Sceurity benefits..

HOW CAN YOU BE SO STUPID?

drmiler does seem to make it look easy! He must have a lot of practice.

ParaTed, and DrMiler, Why did you bite? I did not read the article, but I read the first line of the first response and knew exactly what it was about. and that it is 100% wrong. So why do you bother? Just because he's an asshat!

If you really must bite, then rate him a troll on every response.

He doesn't deserve any response, much less a dignified one that might clear up the FUD that he's spreading around, but still, if you are going to bite, bite in more ways than one. Nuke his point whoring attempts and drive him back into the obscurity that he deserves.

Their problem is they can not "Nuke" my issues because my issues are correct. They also do have any amo! You just do not want to admit YOUR BOY is wrong! For anyone to agrue that a $2 trillion increase in the national debt is a "GOOD" for America is NUTS. To argue the $700 Billion trade deficit ( Up from $400 billion in 2000) is good for American is NUTS! To agure a $.60 increase per galon in the price of gas since 2000 is good for America is also NUTS! These are facts about how the current policies are working!

drmiler - again you show you are DUMB. Social Security Tax rates are 6.2 % on the individual and 6.2% paid by the employer. That is 12.4% in total. Thus, 4% is about 1/3 of 12.4%. HOW CAN YOU BE SO STUPID?

How can YOU be so stupid? 4% percent from YOUR pocket! It does NOT include your employers contribution! You pay $100 out of your check to SS (that figure is way to small. but I thought I'd keep it small for you so you can keep up). Your employer pays $100. Now that's $200. Now JUST HOW MUCH IS 4%? I can tell you that it's a WHOLE $8. Now just how the hell do you figure that's 1/3 of what your paying in? And you call me stupid? YOUR the ignorant one, not me!

drmiler - again you show you are DUMB. Social Security Tax rates are 6.2 % on the individual and 6.2% paid by the employer. That is 12.4% in total. Thus, 4% is about 1/3 of 12.4%. HOW CAN YOU BE SO STUPID?

Also, if "I'm" so dumb why is "my" point score at 27K and "yours" is only @ 14K?

drmiler

It is not 4% of the total tax it is 4% out of your 6.2% . That leaves 2.2% from you and 6.2 % from your employer for a total of 8.4% rather then 12.4% going into the Social Security trust fund. That is about 1/3 of the total SS tax revenue is diverted for anyone that would select that option. Where do you think the Trillions of dollars in cost comes from for this plan? AS I SAID YOUR ARE DUMB!!!!!!!!! To make even simpler for YOU:

If you earn $25,000 a year you currently pay $1,550 (6.2% X $25,000). Under the Bush plan, the 4% to an individual account would be $1,000 (4% X $25,000) put into the individual account and $550 to the Social Securuty Trust Fund (4% X $25,000). You employer would also send $1,550 to the Social Security Trust Fund (6.2% X $25,000).

Also, if "I'm" so dumb why is "my" point score at 27K and "yours" is only @ 14K?

Case closed. It's official. Intelligence is measured by joeuser points. No wonder so many people were clogging up the servers tryin' ta get points. DOH

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm............... maybe the more points you have, oh hell, never mind............

If you earn $25,000 a year you currently pay $1,550 (6.2% X $25,000). Under the Bush plan, the 4% to an individual account would be $1,000 (4% X $25,000) put into the individual account and $550 to the Social Securuty Trust Fund (4% X $25,000). You employer would also send $1,550 to the Social Security Trust Fund (6.2% X $25,000).

You pay $1500 a year fine... Your employer pays the same ($1500) also fine. Now that's $3000 total right? Now your only allowed to put 4% away of your original $1500, that leaves $1440 (since 4% of your 1500 is only $60) now take your 1440 and you employers $1500 and add. That's a total of $1940 correct? Now do your math yet again and try and tell me that $60 is 1/3!THIS IS NO WHERE NEAR 1/3! Quit looking at it as percentage points and "start" looking at it as dollars! Now who's stupid?

so, if "I'm" so dumb why is "my" point score at 27K and "yours" is only @ 14K? Case closed. It's official. Intelligence is measured by joeuser points. No wonder so many people were clogging up the servers tryin' ta get points. DOH Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm............... maybe the more points you have, oh hell, never mind..........

dabe.... STAY OFF MY CASE!