COL Gene COL Gene

BUSH Iraq War produses nuclear backfire

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BUSH Iraq War produses nuclear backfire

from JoeUser Forums




An unintended consequence of George W. Bush’s Iraq war policy is for rogue states, who fear a U S invasion, to move quickly and acquire nuclear weapons. That was the conclusion of a Republican strategist who appeared on the Chris Matthews show this evening.

His contention was very simple. If you’re the dictator of a rogue state who wants protection against an Iraq like invasion obtain a handful of nuclear weapons. Although this was not the initial rationale for countries like North Korea and Iran to seek these weapons it does make sense, given the Bush preemptive attack policy, to secure a small number of nuclear weapons to deter any such attack in the future by the United States. Great going Mr.Bush!
politics
18,028 views 65 replies
Reply #51 from JoeUser Forums Top
you are correct that is the specific issue. It shows the level of dissatisfaction in the Moslem world for the United States presence in their turf.


The protests had nothing to do with the U.S. on their "turf". The demostrations were based upon an article in Newsweek.
Anyways the muslim world is filled with disatifaction about anything that isn't islamic. That's one of their main problems.

Since you like polls so much.

WASHINGTON, March 4 /PRNewswire/ -- In the first substantial shift of public opinion in the Muslim world since the beginning of the United States' global war on terrorism, more people in the world's largest Muslim country now favor American efforts against terrorism than oppose them. This is just one of many dramatic findings of a new nationwide poll in Indonesia released today.

"In a stunning turnaround of public opinion, support for Bin Laden and terrorism in the world's most populous Muslim nation has dropped significantly, while favorable views of the United States have increased," said Kenneth Ballen, President of Terror Free Tomorrow, which commissioned the poll. "The poll shows that the reason for this positive change is the American response to the tsunami," Ballen added.


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Reply #52 from JoeUser Forums Top
I knew that. The issue is that the Muslims do not want the U S in their part of the world. We are occupiers NOT liberators!
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Reply #53 from JoeUser Forums Top
knew that. The issue is that the Muslims do not want the U S in their part of the world. We are occupiers NOT liberators!


Well the quoted piece by island dog says you are WRONG, once again.
Reply #54 from JoeUser Forums Top
How do you explain the rioters in Afghanistan shouting "death to America." That sounds a bit more convincing in some polls that you questioned on other things. You Bushies who believe we have made friends in the Muslim world have got your head buried in the sand.
Reply #55 from JoeUser Forums Top
COL Gene, there are solid military, political, and practical reasons for dealing with Iraq first, and other rogue states afterwards. For example: We'd been in a state of war with Iraq since about 1991. The UNSC had repeatedly found the Hussein regime to be in violation of UNSC resoutions. Iran is difficult to pressure, without strong bases in the region; access to Iraq ends up being a strategic prerequisite to pressuring other state sponsors of terrorism in the region. As it turns out, if your long-term goal is to shatter the entire rogue states/state sponsors of terorrism paradigm, Iraq is a pretty good place to start.

The Iranian mullah's nuclear program was a lot further along than Saddam Hussein's, but the mullahs have been much more careful about not giving the civilized world plausible excuses to kick their ass. So they ended up a little further down the list than Saddam did. Now it looks like we're shooting for a self-determined regime change (and change of national heart) in Iran, in respone to recent world events.

Kim Jong Il is a totally different problem. We can't use force against North Korea, because North Korea can guarantee the immediate destruction of Seoul (using conventional or chem/bio weapons) no matter how the conflict ultimately ends. So that's why we didn't invade North Korea, but adopted a diplomatic approach instead.

Meanwhile... what motivates a shoplifter to run for the door faster? The clerk he knows doesn't care and won't bust him, or the loss prevention dude heading down the aisle straight towards him? Oh, no! By doing his job, the loss prevention dude has totally accelerated the shoplifter's getaway attempt! Clearly, we should just leave shoplifters alone! Besides, if both North Korea and the U.S. accelerate their programs (North Korea to have a nuclear deterrent, and the U.S. to stop them), then the relative rate of acceleration in the NK program is pretty much zero.

Seriously: If a gunslinger has been inching his hand towards his revolver all evening long, sooner or later his hand is going to be on the pistol grip. Then he'll draw, and then he'll shoot you. Sooner or later, his hand is going to be so close to his gun that you must draw, even if that means risking him out-drawing you. Your only other option is to keep waiting, which only guarantees that he'll out-draw you.

BARTENDER BILL: Hey, my shift is done, I'm outta here. You ready to take over?

BARTENDER GEORGE: Yep, sure am. You have a good night, Jake.

BILL: I surely will, Earl. Thanks! Oh, by the way, watch out for Black Bart, down at the end of the bar. He's been drinking heavily, and he's been edging his hand towards his gun. I reckon he's about ready to draw it now, and start shooting people.

GEORGE: The hell? And you didn't do anything about it?

BILL: Enh. I didn't want the hassle. You know how Bart gets. I figured I'd let you deal with it. Good luck!
Reply #56 from PolMach Forums Top

Reply #54 By: COL Gene - 5/11/2005 5:22:34 PM
How do you explain the rioters in Afghanistan shouting "death to America." That sounds a bit more convincing in some polls that you questioned on other things. You Bushies who believe we have made friends in the Muslim world have got your head buried in the sand


--Do you judge a book by its cover, just because those people in the riots are angry with us, DOES NOT mean that every afghani is angry with us. Also, hmmm,friends, would you consider iraqi's who risk their lives to save american soldiers from roadside bombs, or those who have risked their lives[and some lost] to help the americans defeat the terrorists friends? sure...friends in the cause of liberating their country....hmmm? Oh, and not all Bushies are ignorant fools....[At least i don't consider myself to be...[ i'm a bushie btw, in case you didn't notice,at least until the next election...]

Reply #57 from PolMach Forums Top
Reply #55 By: stutefish - 5/11/2005 5:37:40 PM


seems reasonable.....
Reply #58 from JoeUser Forums Top
" What sped up North Korea's Nuke program faster?"
One has to think Rumsfeld's company selling the nuclear energy to North Korea had something to do with it. Let's keep in mind that the guilty party is the one who facilitated the North Korean nuclear program by selling them the materials needed to make nuclear weapons. Good grief people don't you see that it's all thanks to Rumsfeld's company which he sits on the board of?
Reply #59 from JoeUser Forums Top
I never said every person in Afghanistan , Iraq or every Muslim hates America. What I am saying is we have made many enemies in the Muslim world. every time we support of Israel when it does things like the builds settlements or walls beyond their borders we create more enemies. the ruling princes love George Bush but many of the people support people like Osama bin Laden.
Reply #60 from JoeUser Forums Top

" What sped up North Korea's Nuke program faster?"
One has to think Rumsfeld's company selling the nuclear energy to North Korea had something to do with it. Let's keep in mind that the guilty party is the one who facilitated the North Korean nuclear program by selling them the materials needed to make nuclear weapons. Good grief people don't you see that it's all thanks to Rumsfeld's company which he sits on the board of?


Wanna try again? This time think "Slick Willie" and his cronies.
Reply #61 from PolMach Forums Top
Reply #54 By: COL Gene - 5/11/2005 5:22:34 PM
How do you explain the rioters in Afghanistan shouting "death to America." That sounds a bit more convincing in some polls that you questioned on other things. You Bushies who believe we have made friends in the Muslim world have got your head buried in the sand


---But by the choice in your words you never clarified that;


Reply #59 By: COL Gene - 5/11/2005 5:53:41 PM
I never said every person in Afghanistan , Iraq or every Muslim hates America. What I am saying is we have made many enemies in the Muslim world. every time we support of Israel when it does things like the builds settlements or walls beyond their borders we create more enemies. the ruling princes love George Bush but many of the people support people like Osama bin Laden.


---Yes, we have made many enemies, but we have also made friends, and they will help us. IMO israel has the right to israel, they had it first...[look it up in an older history book, not one of those 'revised' editions] Propaganda is one of the major reasons they hate us, not all of the leaders [warlords,etc...] like the US, so they could easily spread anti-american propaganda.

the guilty party is the one who facilitated the North Korean nuclear program


--Uhh, according to some newspapers i've read, that would have been "under-the-table" deals between NK and other countires...

BTW, another Pol. type test:


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Reply #62 from JoeUser Forums Top
I fully agree Israel has a right to Israel. It does not have the right to extend its borders unilaterally into the West Bank. it's time for United States as Israel's friend to tell that they must stay within their borders just like every other country in the world. I don't think it would go over to well with Canada if we decide to annex the Canadian side of Niagara Falls.
Reply #63 from JoeUser Forums Top
You just cannot ignore dictators and terrorists and hope they "go away". The U.N. is not capable of taking care of the world, and in some cases like Saddam, actually help them.


I just love it the way you guys just totally ignore the carnage that is going on in Rwanda. When the Bosnians were killing eachother, and Clinton sent forces there, the repubs were all outraged about how we shouldn't be the world's police force. As far as I can see, the only difference is the party that leads. And, in this case, it's the republican neocons.

And, on another note, it's amazing how outraged everyone gets, but ignores the history of how Saddam got most of the chemicals and biologicals to kill people. Yeah, we Americans provided it to him, in the hopes that Iraq would overrun Iran. But, Iraq didn't, and was no longer any use to the CIA. And, like Bin Laden, we just dumped them because we no longer needed them. But, we armed them. We trained them. We gave them lots and lots of money. Now, we are outraged? What hypocrisy!

This outrage over arabs killing eachother is just a ruse, and in fact, we Americans wouldn't give a rat's ass, like the Rwandans, if Iraq wasn't sitting on one of the largest oil supplies in the world. It's outrageous hypocrisy. And, neocon greed.
Reply #64 from PolMach Forums Top

Reply #63 By: dabe - 5/11/2005 10:51:56 PM


--Quit with the neocon crap, repeat after me, "not all conservatives are evil...not all conservatives are evil...", seriously, who cares what happend then, its over and done with. [yes, i am a slightly right leaning person] [i do realize you have never directly towards me] But you complain and whine,etc... about republican this,conservative that, those evil neocons,etc... please....for the sake of our patience and what sanity is left, [after dealing with the other "different" people on this site, please stop the ranting, that goes for those on the other side that do the same things....
Reply #65 from JoeUser Forums Top
How do you explain the rioters in Afghanistan shouting "death to America." That sounds a bit more convincing in some polls that you questioned on other things. You Bushies who believe we have made friends in the Muslim world have got your head buried in the sand


Amazing col that your base all of your blogs on polls, but when one shows you are clearly wrong, you totally ignore it. As usual you take a group of protestors and automatically assume the entire muslim population agrees with them.


I never said every person in Afghanistan , Iraq or every Muslim hates America. What I am saying is we have made many enemies in the Muslim world. every time we support of Israel when it does things like the builds settlements or walls beyond their borders we create more enemies. the ruling princes love George Bush but many of the people support people like Osama bin Laden.


We do have many enemies in the Middle East. Most of it is based on their beliefs of their so-called religion. Israel is the number one scapegoat for people like you and the arab media. Do you know what the top headline on al-jazeera was on Iraq's election day? "Jew vote in Iraq", so now you see the real people responsible for hatred in the Middle East are the arabs themselves.

And, on another note, it's amazing how outraged everyone gets, but ignores the history of how Saddam got most of the chemicals and biologicals to kill people. Yeah, we Americans provided it to him, in the hopes that Iraq would overrun Iran. But, Iraq didn't, and was no longer any use to the CIA. And, like Bin Laden, we just dumped them because we no longer needed them. But, we armed them. We trained them. We gave them lots and lots of money. Now, we are outraged? What hypocrisy!


Well dabe if you were right, which you are not, then the invasion of Iraq is even more justified.

However people like you just repeat the same liberal talking points. The U.S. did not sell WMD to Iraq. The U.S. provided samples to Iraq and any other nation who wanted them. The french are the one's who sold the equipment to turn these samples into usable WMD's.