Neocon, Neocon, Who Art Thou, Neocon?

What is a Neo-conservative?

Over the weekend I brought the family back home to Chicago for Mother's Day. My aunt (mom's sister), her husband, and my cousins dropped by my parents' house for the barbeque. While eating, one of my cousins let his opinion be known about "Neocons."

Last year my friend, his wife, and I were talking and somehow Pat Buchanan's book The Death of the West came up. She then went on a tirade about "Neocons" and how they hate Mexicans.

I've heard Donald Rumsfeld being chastised for being a "Neocon." I've read references to the "Neocon Death Cult" (not just here).

So I ask this to everyone. What is a neo-conservative, or a neocon? I'm not asking for names, but rather characteristics.

Please, I'm not looking for wikipedia entries. Just what you personally think.
22,222 views 33 replies
Reply #2 Top
From what I gather it is anyone who isn't a liberal, who is in a discussion with a liberal, and the liberal can no longer make his points stick.

Of course, anyone who isn't a conservative, who is in a discussion with a conservative, and the convervative can no longer make his points stick, would be "anti American" or a "bleeding heart liberal". ;~D
Reply #3 Top
I have been called one many times. I have yet to figure out just one is. So I too would like to know.
Reply #4 Top
A neoconservative, as opposed to a conservative, is a person who follows in the political tradition of Ronald Reagan who advocates fiscal irresponsibility. A neoconservative, like most conservatives, will maintain that public welfare programs should not be supported and that each person should assume personal responsibility, so taxes should be reduced. However, a neoconservative will not reduce public spending and will spend above and beyond the existing budget, thereby generating excessive debts that future generations will have to pay back.

A true conservative is all for each person assuming personal responsibility for his/her own finances, but that means assuming responsibility for the debts as well. A true conservative does not live beyond his/her means. Fiscal conservatism parts company with neoconservatism in that it would never indulge in rampant deficit spending in the manner that neoconservatism habitually does.

Another salient characteristic of neoconservatism is passing the buck. Neoconservatives are notorious for blaming others when things go wrong, something that a true conservative never does. Conservatives assume personal responsibility for their own actions (with the sole exception of Richard Millhouse Nixon, who fabricated stories to the point that had he been Pinocchio, his nose could have been used as a coat rack), whereas neoconservatives will always find someone else to blame when their sins catch up with them.

That, in a nutshell, is a working definition.
Reply #5 Top
neocon translated as "new conservative" if that helps anyone.
Reply #6 Top
From what I gather it is anyone who isn't a liberal, who is in a discussion with a liberal, and the liberal can no longer make his points stick.

Of course, anyone who isn't a conservative, who is in a discussion with a conservative, and the convervative can no longer make his points stick, would be "anti American" or a "bleeding heart liberal". ;~D


Good point.

But I just had to laugh when my friend's wife claimed Pat Buchanan was a neocon. In the course of that conversation I revealed I was one of the sixteen thousand who had voted for Buchanan in 2000 in Illinois.
Reply #7 Top
But I just had to laugh when my friend's wife claimed Pat Buchanan was a neocon. In the course of that conversation I revealed I was one of the sixteen thousand who had voted for Buchanan in 2000 in Illinois.


What is interesting about Buchanan, almost everything that he ran on in 2000 is now being demanded by the average American.
Reply #8 Top
Neo-conservative, as defined in Pat Buchanon's "Where the Right Went Wrong", is one who believes in the Wilsonian idea of spreading democracy through developing world countries, but they believe in doing so by invading them.

Neocons many, many decades ago were liberals. During the Cold War they were strong advocates of eliminating the Soviet Union (NOTE: all those who opposed the USSR are NOT neocons; however all neocons opposed the USSR), because it stood in the way of democratizing the world.

This position is the only true positions neo-conservatives have. They find the party that will most probably accept their democratize-the-world-by-invading policy; whichever party that is, the neocons then absorb all the other positions held by that party and write and support that party all they can. For this reason, I think of neocons as the "souless players on the political scene" because they only truelly believe in that one position. They get their positions on economics, environment, education, health, abortion rights, etc, etc from the party that is most likely to take in their one issue. Over the decades, the party they have chosen is the Republican party.

An example of this is when several neo-conservatives signed a letter to President Bill Clinton, saying that they will support him in everything he does if he were to declare war on Iraq during his 1998 State of the Union address.

Bill Kristol, a neo-conservative writer, once wrote that if the Republican Party would not execute the neoconservative policies and invade Iraq he would become a "neoliberal", proving that the neoconservatives really don't believe in anything except invading developing world coutnries to set up democracies.

(This neocosnervative policy, by the way, was best described by my history teacher as "liberal goal through cosnervative means".)

Many rightists, conservatives, and Republicans have been falsely called neoconservatives. Most neocons on the national scene are writers. High-profile neocons include Charles Krauthammer, William Kristol, and Paul Wolfowitz.

(Although Donald Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney were not really neo-conservatives, they were swayed to adopt their policy by the neocons that currently rule the pentagon)
Reply #9 Top
Heh heh. While I think this is a good question to ask for the sake of political discussion, I must admit that I did forsee this as a potential points-whoring article.
Reply #10 Top
It's inconceivable that in a supposedly educated society like America 2005 there could be someone of reading age who does not know about the so-called neocon involvement in American politics. The real definition of a neocon is not appealing, hence the common American's lack of knowledge about them and their influence in your government. A neocon is someone who can be caught red-handed (early 70, Mr. Perle) giving vital classified intelligence to Israel from his national security office and later be promoted and given even more powers. That's why the latest American traitor spy is going to be interesting. Will this latest stooge be valuable enough to merit such weak measures against him? We shall see. Never mind the fact nations execute traitor spies, for lesser crimes.
Reply #11 Top
You know, I have no clue what a neocon is, really, but if I had to pin a name on the liberals in the 60s and later, I'd call them "Neolibs".
Since so many of their beliefs were so much farther to the left than their "liberal" predecessors like Roosevelt and Truman, for example, this represented a new, or "neo" change in policy.
The ideals of the more radical, hippie-dippie 60s liberals were (and still are, to some extent) very often based in Marxism-Leninism, a vast split from the more moderate and centered beliefs of their political ancestors, and this has only caused problems in the government of the last 25-30 years, as they've slowly come into power.

Conservative ideals haven't changed all that much, really, since their inception generations ago. God, country and all that.

Perhaps "neocons" are what the libs choose to derisively call those of us who, in 1980, destroyed what they saw as a total liberal victory over conservativism by electing Reagan instead of putting their waffler back in office?
Reply #12 Top
The term neo is added to the abreviation 'con' (for Conservative, of course) just because liberals think it makes us sound evil, kinda like "neo-nazi."

"Conservative" alone would sound too reasonable to describe us, (in their hateful opinion) and shortening it to "con" gives it a negative connotation, because a "con" is not a nice thing.

But they didn't stop there, oh no! Even "neo-con" didn't sound quite sinister enough, so they now routinely add "deathcult" to it.

Maroons, every last of of them.
---LW

Well-reasoned. Might be it.
Reply #13 Top
It's inconceivable that in a supposedly educated society like America 2005 there could be someone of reading age who does not know about the so-called neocon involvement in American politics. The real definition of a neocon is not appealing, hence the common American's lack of knowledge about them and their influence in your government. A neocon is someone who can be caught red-handed (early 70, Mr. Perle) giving vital classified intelligence to Israel from his national security office and later be promoted and given even more powers. That's why the latest American traitor spy is going to be interesting. Will this latest stooge be valuable enough to merit such weak measures against him? We shall see. Never mind the fact nations execute traitor spies, for lesser crimes.


So, are you going to define what a "neocon" is or not, Reiki?
Reply #14 Top
Neo-conservative, as defined in Pat Buchanon's "Where the Right Went Wrong", is one who believes in the Wilsonian idea of spreading democracy through developing world countries, but they believe in doing so by invading them.

Neocons many, many decades ago were liberals. During the Cold War they were strong advocates of eliminating the Soviet Union (NOTE: all those who opposed the USSR are NOT neocons; however all neocons opposed the USSR), because it stood in the way of democratizing the world.

This position is the only true positions neo-conservatives have. They find the party that will most probably accept their democratize-the-world-by-invading policy; whichever party that is, the neocons then absorb all the other positions held by that party and write and support that party all they can. For this reason, I think of neocons as the "souless players on the political scene" because they only truelly believe in that one position. They get their positions on economics, environment, education, health, abortion rights, etc, etc from the party that is most likely to take in their one issue. Over the decades, the party they have chosen is the Republican party.

An example of this is when several neo-conservatives signed a letter to President Bill Clinton, saying that they will support him in everything he does if he were to declare war on Iraq during his 1998 State of the Union address.

Bill Kristol, a neo-conservative writer, once wrote that if the Republican Party would not execute the neoconservative policies and invade Iraq he would become a "neoliberal", proving that the neoconservatives really don't believe in anything except invading developing world coutnries to set up democracies.

(This neocosnervative policy, by the way, was best described by my history teacher as "liberal goal through cosnervative means".)

Many rightists, conservatives, and Republicans have been falsely called neoconservatives. Most neocons on the national scene are writers. High-profile neocons include Charles Krauthammer, William Kristol, and Paul Wolfowitz.

(Although Donald Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney were not really neo-conservatives, they were swayed to adopt their policy by the neocons that currently rule the pentagon)


This is the type of response I was hoping for. Keep it up, folks. I'm interested in what liberals and left-wingers have to say, too.
Reply #15 Top
So, are you going to define what a "neocon" is or not, Reiki?


Nah...R-H just likes to hear himself talk, as long as it's anti-right-wing stuff. Don't expect him to actually have point.
Reply #16 Top
No, neoconservative is not another word for conservative, Reagan conservative, Reagan Republican, or any other kind of Republican. They are the small groups who only believe in the liberal-goal-through-conservervative-means policy of invading countries to spread democracy. (Not everyone who believes that, but the few who only believe in that and will support the positions on other issues of the party that will adopt the neocon policy)

Here is the letter I mentioned in my last post.

http://newamericancentury.org/iraqclintonletter.htm

To then-President Clinton, signed by:

Elliott Abrams Richard L. Armitage William J. Bennett

Jeffrey Bergner John Bolton Paula Dobriansky

Francis Fukuyama Robert Kagan Zalmay Khalilzad

William Kristol Richard Perle Peter W. Rodman

Donald Rumsfeld William Schneider, Jr. Vin Weber

Paul Wolfowitz R. James Woolsey Robert B. Zoellick

(these ones are neocons)

(No, adding "neo" to the beginning of a political attitude does not make it more extreme; a neoconservative is not a right-winger or reactionary, and a neoliberal is not a left-winger or radical)

Most people do not know what a neoconservative is. Many liberals and democrats throw it around as just some negative word for a conservative and are usually wrong when applying the label. Many conservatives don't know what it is either, but are sure it must be an attack on their glorious and courageous policies
Reply #17 Top
We'll leave it to Good Ol' Dexter of "The Offspring" to describe a "neocon".

"Neocon"

we are strong
we are right
we won't be pushed aside
we'll go on
we will fight
we will not compromise
we will never lose to you
we will never lose to you
we will never lose to you
we will never lose to you Link


;~D
Reply #18 Top
and here I thought that was what you called the charactar from matrix after he was imprisoned, then set free.

ha!
Reply #19 Top
Leave it to the uninformed to say my answer has no answer. If you could read it again you'd see what a neocon is. They don't have a neocon badge on their vests or signs on their office doors. Hence your ignorance about them. Neocons have great connections to Israel and Israels' foreign policy. So while I know this elementary information, you all can play word games while trying to figure out what a neocon is. Your uninformed minds help them greatly. To understand what a neocon is, you have to look at individual's past histories, free of blatant one-side-promoting bias. When a powerful politician bends to appease Israel while ignoring any contrary laws they can be labelled a neocon. A neocon will muddle the truth about events and make a sanitized version of events where it's ok for Israel to assasinate leaders of other groups with the best US helicopters and fighter jets in the world. Israel has more sophisticated US weaponry than NATO. If you take a hard unbiased look at American politics, you can see the neocon stamp in many places. And the dead US GI's are left to dust in the desert sand. And it works.
Reply #20 Top
Leave it to the uninformed to say my answer has no answer. If you could read it again you'd see what a neocon is. They don't have a neocon badge on their vests or signs on their office doors. Hence your ignorance about them. Neocons have great connections to Israel and Israels' foreign policy. So while I know this elementary information, you all can play word games while trying to figure out what a neocon is. Your uninformed minds help them greatly. To understand what a neocon is, you have to look at individual's past histories, free of blatant one-side-promoting bias. When a powerful politician bends to appease Israel while ignoring any contrary laws they can be labelled a neocon. A neocon will muddle the truth about events and make a sanitized version of events where it's ok for Israel to assasinate leaders of other groups with the best US helicopters and fighter jets in the world. Israel has more sophisticated US weaponry than NATO. If you take a hard unbiased look at American politics, you can see the neocon stamp in many places. And the dead US GI's are left to dust in the desert sand. And it works.


Reiki, you sorry soul, you don't get it.

Give a functioning definition of what a neocon is. Save your political grandstanding and advocacy for someplace else. Read what Jim Rove wrote. Give origins, philosophy, movements, dates, events, names--stuff like that. And do it in a intelligent manner. What makes a neocon a neocon as opposed to a paleocon, or a member of the new-left.
Reply #21 Top
The neoconseratives sprang from the very heart of Democratic America. Most of them lived in New York or Boston and most made their living in academia. But these were not traditional Harvard men, lantern-jawed and blue-blooded. Most of them were Jewish, virtually all of them the children of immigrants; some grew up in homes where Yiddish was spoken as much as English. The key members of the group - Irving Kristol, Danial Bell, Seymour Martin Lipset and Nathan Glazer - all attended City College of New York together in the 1930s at a time when college provided a first-rate education for New Yorkers who were too poor and too Jewish to attend the Ivy League. The neocons were modernists to a fault. They didn’t go around expressing nostalgia for lost glories of medieval Christendom, nineteenth-century capitalism of the Old South. Most of them had been Marxists of one sort or another in their youth. But as they grew older they embraced old-fashioned liberalism - the liberalism of meritocratic values, reverence for high culture and vigorous mixed economy. It was betrayal of this liberalism (as they saw it) by the Left that then turned them into neocons.

The neocons hated what was happening to America’s universities, the institutions that had lifted them out of the ghetto. How could the high priests of America’s temples of reason stand idly by while students trashed university property? How could people who were supposed to care about intellectual standards agree to the introduction of quotes? Criticizing the war in Vietnam was all very well, but how could these over privileged brats burn the American flag? How could they argue that America was always wrong and its critics always right? Knee-jerk anti-Americanism was particularly offensive to people whose families escaped the Holocaust only because they emigrated to America.


These thinkers provided an enormous boost to the Right...... Crucially, the neocons spoke the language of social science. Conservatives had long insisted that government programs weakened the natural bonds of society, without ever being about to prove it. The neocons showed the social problems were much harder to understand then they appeared - and that social engineering of the Great Society sort was plagued by perverse consequences. Welfare payments can reinforce dependency. Preferential treatment may harm its supposed beneficiaries by shielding them from competition. Overzealous egalitarianism can undermine educational institutions such as New York’s City College and reduce social mobility. The neocons were muckrakers of the Right, discrediting government just as the original muckrakers had discredited the robber barons.

The neocons also dwelt on the importance of the sort of informal institutions that other social scientist ignored. In 1965, a young official in the Department of Labor, Daniel Patrick Moynihan, caused a sensation with a paper-immediately dubbed the Moynihan Report, though his name did not appear on the original document-that suggested that the problems of the urban black poor stemmed, in large measure, from the collapse of the black family. Other neocons showed that a society’s “little platoons” - its voluntary institutions- are much more vital to its health then ambitious government programs. And they warned that disorder was a much bigger threat to social well-being then permissive liberals might imagine. In other works, they dressed traditional conservative insights in the language of social science.

The neocons did not need to win every argument. Merely by raising dissenting voices the punched a hole in the liberal establishment’s claim to possess a monopoly on expertise. Hitherto liberals had enjoyed perhaps the most valuable resource policy makers can possess: the impression that they represented objective scientific wisdom. This isn’t just our opinion, they could argue; this scientific orthodoxy. The neocons ended this convenient fiction.

The neocons also added a cutting edge to the Right’s criticism of liberal foreign policy. One spur was the United Nations’ growing hostility to Israel (which increased after Israel occupied Palestinian territory in the wake of the 1967 war). They also became increasingly convinced that the United States was losing the Cold War. Arms control was mutating into appeasement. The Soviet Union was building on communism’s victory in Vietnam. The American establishment was paralyzed by “Vietnam syndrome.” If the National Review broke the isolationist’ grip on the Right, the neocons helped push the bulk of the movement far more firmly into the internationalist camp.
________________________________________________________
This was an excerpt to the book “The Right Nation” written by John Micklethwait and Adrian Wooldridge. It is a very good book and has a very balanced view. I would subject anybody that is interested in the modern Right movement to read it (critic or supporter of the right).

In short, neocons are the think tanks and brains. At one time most worked for the Democrats, but changed sides, as described above. If a President (Democrat i.e. Clinton used them or most likely a Republican) wants info, ideas, or needs to create a nicely packaged policy, they go to the neocons located at the think tank called AEI (American Enterprise Institute). The AEI will do all the leg work and will change it to fit the politician. They are privately funded through donations and their services are free of charge to those that will listen.

If I have time this evening, I’ll type some more on the subject.
Reply #22 Top
They don't have a neocon badge on their vests or signs on their office doors.


Yes they do, it is called the AEI. Read my post above.
Reply #23 Top

Yes they do, it is called the AEI. Read my post above.


I wasn't aware that AEI was universally neo-conservative, although I think it's pretty obvious many in it were.
Reply #24 Top
A neo-con is a Conservative that a Liberal doesn't agree with. Calling someone a nazi wasn't working out, and they didn't have "pinko commie" to fall back on like we do.

(yes, I know it has "meaning", but come on, since when has meaning ever mattered to people who use words as weapons?)
Reply #25 Top
A neo-con is a Conservative that a Liberal doesn't agree with. Calling someone a nazi wasn't working out, and they didn't have "pinko commie" to fall back on like we do.

(yes, I know it has "meaning", but come on, since when has meaning ever mattered to people who use words as weapons?)


That's why I'm looking for people, especially liberals and other leftists, to give their personal definition for the word.