Congress weighs 4 IDs for licenses

from JoeUser Forums
From USA Today via Yahoo!, headline is linked.



Congress weighs 4 IDs for licenses

By Donna Leinwand, USA TODAY

It soon could be a lot more complicated for Americans to get driver's licenses.
Most who apply for new licenses - and presumably, those seeking renewals - would have to prove that they are in the USA legally, document their Social Security number and home address, and show a photo ID. Motor vehicle department employees then would have to verify the documents with federal databases, a potentially lengthy process that could mean an end to same-day license renewals.
States now typically require new drivers to produce proof of age and one or two other forms of ID, usually including a photo. Less is required of those renewing licenses; Maryland and a few other states allow renewals by mail. That could change under the Real ID Act, which along with extra security at airports and workplaces could represent the most significant differences in daily lives to stem from post-9/11 security concerns.
The act is likely to be passed by the House today and the Senate next week as an attachment to an $81 million emergency spending bill for the military in Iraq and Afghanistan. If states did not comply within three years, their driver's licenses could not be used as ID to board a plane or to enter certain federal buildings.
President Bush has expressed support for the act, which has created an uproar among state officials and civil liberties groups such as the American Civil Liberties Union. The National Conference of State Legislatures estimates that it would cost states more than $500 million. "The number of documents is staggering," says the conference's Cheye Calvo. "You're not going to get your license in one day anymore. Over-the-counter driver's licenses will no longer exist."
The ACLU says the act threatens' Americans' privacy by creating links between databases that could be used to make licenses into de facto national ID cards that could be used to track residents' activities.


... more at linked article


I have to admit, I'm a bit concerned about this while also being mostly supportive of any effort that makes it tougher to get id in this country.

First, I must question just what PHOTO ID would be acceptable and what makes it acceptable when one goes to get a driver's license? For many people, the driver's license is the photo id. Before having one, many people would never have a legally recognized photo id. How that would be addressed may raise concern, but regarding the other requested documentation, I don't think I'd have that many complaints and/or concerns.

Regarding any massive database, too friggin' bad. We must have some sort of nationally recognized standards for identification in this country.

As to any predictions that many people won't get their licenses in a day any more, that seems to be nothing more than typical doom-saying by the ACLU.
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Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top
I am all for the stiffening of the drivers license system. It has and still is easy to forge or fake and ID. Mostly, not because it is easy to duplicate but because the people responsible for checking the IDs are not doing their part. This is a problem that gets worse as it falls down the security line. (toughest at airports easiest at the convenience store) I want an ID that requires validation of some sort. I don't even have a problem putting my fingerprint on file if that is what it takes. I say if you’re not on file the boat is waiting. A national ID could solve so many problems.
Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top
Show us your papers please, now!

Actually I'm all for requiring proof of identity and residence for drivers licensing. In Florida, to receive a commercial drivers license one is now required to provide a certified official copy of their birth certificate as well as other official documents to support identity and residence prior to the issue of the license. I don't have a problem with that even though it did cause me a delay on renewal as I had to send off for an official copy of my birth certificate as I had lost mine in a fire.
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Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top
I hate the idea.  Not because I beleive Illegals should get drivers licenses, but because the feds are intruding into a state matter.  There goes another right down the toilet.
Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top
I hate the idea. Not because I beleive Illegals should get drivers licenses, but because the feds are intruding into a state matter. There goes another right down the toilet.


I know your pain doc however, none of the states are doing anything about fixing the gaping security hole. So the US government is stepping in. what are ya going to do to the states for not doing anything? Slap their hands?
Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top

I know your pain doc however, none of the states are doing anything about fixing the gaping security hole. So the US government is stepping in. what are ya going to do to the states for not doing anything? Slap their hands?

Virginia already has.  And others like Maryland are discussing it.  I think it is already being done.  The Feds have no business here.

Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top
This is frightening. It would, among other things, put an increased burden on the poor, as every document other than a social security card, requires a fee to obtain.

The point I think these people are missing is, terrorists aren't short on cash to get the forged documents they need. This would cripple the individual while doing virtually NOTHING to effectively thwart terrorism.

While we're at it, why don't we establish interstate checkpoints between each city? Require drivers to produce papers to pass?

It's not that far off, if you think about it
Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top

It's not that far off, if you think about it

All too true.  This is the foot in the door for just such a law.  And it stinks.

Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top
I have only 9 words to say about this.

Fed, get your fingers out of the state's business!!!
Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top
Fed, get your fingers out of the state's business!!!


Ted, and others thinking the same things, normally I'd agree with your line of thinking here, but I have to say that it's fairly important that we get standards for drivers licenses *right* every where across the country, and not just in Virginia or any other state that happens to finally wake up and decide to set reasonable and realistic standards for identification requirements prior to issuing drivers licenses.

Again, I'm concerned about what identification would be required (like I asked originally, what photo I.D. is required?!?!), but otherwise requiring a bit more proof of just who is getting the license that is issued is not a bad thing.

It is state's business yes, but slow down and think about things a bit more.

If I get a drivers license in Vermont (as an example), that doesn't mean I can only drive in Vermont, right? A license from any state is good in every state, thanks to reciprocity agreements and other standards which allow citizens of the U.S. to drive everywhere without having to obtain a license in every state in the union, or at least every state that we might drive in.

The roads we drive on are in many cases interstates, paid for in large part by federal tax dollars from all states, not just one state.

And finally, please remember that when it comes to security, we are only as good as the weakest link. If we don't start enforcing standards that apply everywhere, we'll continue to find that illegal immigrants, terrorists or others will simply obtain their drivers licenses in whatever state happens to be the most lax in their identification requirements.
Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top
Show us your papers please, now!


i only wish you'd done this with colonel klink phonetics.
"moderateman?? das is a jewish name jah?"

this makes as much sense as checking shoes before boarding travellers. obviously no serious terrorist is gonna be wearing platform bombs.

i'm willing to bet hard cash that in 2008, i'll still be able to get a drivers license and ss card from some vato on third and alvarado in less time than it takes me to renew my legitimate license. and i make that offer freely admitting i almost never win bets.

it's just one more touchy-feely simulution from the same people who brought you the terror alert color palette.
Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top
Ted, and others thinking the same things, normally I'd agree with your line of thinking here, but I have to say that it's fairly important that we get standards for drivers licenses *right* every where across the country,


Why have a national standard for driving when the requirements and needs for driving vary from area to area. In many states, the driving age is lower to accomidate farming communities and their needs. Washington DC would set meaningless "one size fits all" trash (as usual) that doesn't meet anyone's needs but Washington's.

True, the Fed does dictate regulations now, but it is not by law, it is by choice. The fed does hold highway money over the state's heads, but again losing the highway money is a consequence of that choice. Several states have opted to forego those funds, so that they could make their own choices, for their own states.

Again, I'm concerned about what identification would be required (like I asked originally, what photo I.D. is required?!?!), but otherwise requiring a bit more proof of just who is getting the license that is issued is not a bad thing.


Requiring more proof is a good thing, but each state should be free to decide what proof is required.

If I get a drivers license in Vermont (as an example), that doesn't mean I can only drive in Vermont, right? A license from any state is good in every state, thanks to reciprocity agreements and other standards which allow citizens of the U.S. to drive everywhere without having to obtain a license in every state in the union, or at least every state that we might drive in.


It is not about "reciprocity agreements" it is about the U.S. Constitution. The "Full Faith and Credit" clause requires each state to recognize the contracts and documentation of other states. This is a good thing, especially where voting is concerned. A person who does not qualify for a state issued ID card probably has no business voting in that state anyway. If there were a "national ID" or "Drivers License", then another form of ID would be required to show residency.

The roads we drive on are in many cases interstates, paid for in large part by federal tax dollars from all states, not just one state.


Paid, in part, with Federal tax dollars, but regulated by state authority. This was set up from the beginning of the Interstate freeway system to keep a level of checks and ballances in the system. Most of the funds that built the interstate system came from the Dept. of Defense. The justification was that the DoD would have a more efficient means of getting troops, beans and bullets across the country. Imagine what the freeway system would have been like if the DoD could have insisted that, since they were funding it, they should be able to regulate it.

And finally, please remember that when it comes to security, we are only as good as the weakest link. If we don't start enforcing standards that apply everywhere, we'll continue to find that illegal immigrants, terrorists or others will simply obtain their drivers licenses in whatever state happens to be the most lax in their identification requirements.


This argument is your weakest link. Just think how much more efficiently our borders would be secured if the border states were allowed to run their borders. The fed ties the hands of the states to the point that, they have to accomidate all illegal aliens who get through the joke we call "Border Patrol". Not that the men and woman on the borders are a joke, but completely innane federal stupidity ties their hands at every turn.

If you ask me, the Federal government does far more harm than good every time they sidestep their Constitutional authorities. We, the People need to quit looking to them for solutions to the problem and tell them to just shut their festering gobs and leave things to the smallest jurisdiction possible.

Like I have said before, anytime you give any level of government responsibility over something, you are also giving them authority over it. Now We, the People are insisting that the federal government micromanage our driving standards?

NO THANKS!!!!
Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top
I agree with Gideon on this. All this would do is bring ugly down on law abiding citizens while doing absolutely nothing to counter terrorism.
Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top
i'm willing to bet hard cash that in 2008, i'll still be able to get a drivers license and ss card from some vato on third and alvarado in less time than it takes me to renew my legitimate license. and i make that offer freely admitting i almost never win bets.


That's what I was thinking (minus the never winning bets, part).

I agree with Gideon, Dr. Guy, etc. on this.


First, I must question just what PHOTO ID would be acceptable and what makes it acceptable when one goes to get a driver's license? For many people, the driver's license is the photo id.


I used a passport....

(Which was actually easier to get than my drivers license. I literally needled them into giving me my passport in one day, but it took me years of jumping through CA's hoops to get my DL. But that's another story entirely.)
Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top

i only wish you'd done this with colonel klink phonetics.
"moderateman?? das is a jewish name jah?"

Slightly OT, but that reminds me when I stated College.  I knew only 2 people at the school I went to and neither very well.  SO My room mate, who was from the area, was introducing me to some of his friends and telling them I was just off the plane from Germany (Military Dependant).  This one guy looks at me and says "you are a liar!".  I said What?  He said you dont sound German!

He had been watching too many Hogans heros reruns I guess!  Most of the Germans that I knew spoke better english than I did!  What a Moron!

Reply #15 from JoeUser Forums Top

this makes as much sense as checking shoes before boarding travellers. obviously no serious terrorist is gonna be wearing platform bombs.

Uh, Reed?