25 by enigmagnetic Tuesday, May 03, 2005

The day I lose my temper to an online forum is the day I hang up the keyboard and mouse my right winger friend. Hmm I see the test has validated you, well done. I'll check out your site to see if you prove my assumption incorrect with your own words.

wish I could say the same.. I do get pissy, angry if you must hear the words. glad you are so even tempered, even if you do lean left.. way left.

The bombing of the U.S.S cole although a tragedy does not compare to the Twin Towers falling. Tell me you're joking.

How so? Just because more people lost their lives in one than the other? They were BOTH attacks on soverign US Territory! Now tell me that *your* joking.

Now if you travel, which it seems you don't, you know that is false. I mean Slick Willy was disliked but gained way more support internationally than Dubya.

The reason he was liked was because of his do nothing stance.

#27 by drmiler Tuesday, May 03, 2005

The bombing of the U.S.S cole although a tragedy does not compare to the Twin Towers falling. Tell me you're joking. How so? Just because more people lost their lives in one than the other? They were BOTH attacks on soverign US Territory! Now tell me that *your* joking.

funny how that works huh? funny as in ironic least I be misunderstood.

#28 by drmiler Tuesday, May 03, 2005

Now if you travel, which it seems you don't, you know that is false. I mean Slick Willy was disliked but gained way more support internationally than Dubya. The reason he was liked was because of his do nothing stance.

well bill did some new things in the oval office3, ask monica {i kept the blue drees} lewinsky

I decided to try that little quiz myself.
Dissaffecteds:

COMMENTS: The Disaffecteds feel completely estranged from both parties. This financially pressured and pessimistic group is not only dissatisfied with the ability of politicians to help improve things, but also has less faith in America in general.
DEFINING VALUES: Distrustful of government, politicians, and business corporations. Favor third major political party. Also, anti-immigrant and intolerant of homosexuality. Very unsatisfied financially.
WHO THEY ARE: Less educated (only 8% have a college degree) and lower-income (73% make less than $50,000). More than one-quarter (28%) describe themselves as poor. Half are between the ages of 30-49. Second only to Partisan Poor in number of single moms. One-fifth (20%) work in manufacturing.

Hmmm, I guess I'm in that 8% education-wise, not a single mother, I am in the age group. Over all I would have to say this quiz missed by a mile. Although I despise labels, if I had to choose one for myself in this context I would say "moderate Independent" would fit me best.

I guess these quizzes are much like polls in their precise accuracy.

31 by MasonM Tuesday, May 03, 2005

decided to try that little quiz myself. Dissaffecteds: COMMENTS: The Disaffecteds feel completely estranged from both parties. This financially pressured and pessimistic group is not only dissatisfied with the ability of politicians to help improve things, but also has less faith in America in general. DEFINING VALUES: Distrustful of government, politicians, and business corporations. Favor third major political party. Also, anti-immigrant and intolerant of homosexuality. Very unsatisfied financially. WHO THEY ARE: Less educated (only 8% have a college degree) and lower-income (73% make less than $50,000). More than one-quarter (28%) describe themselves as poor. Half are between the ages of 30-49. Second only to Partisan Poor in number of single moms. One-fifth (20%) work in manufacturing. Hmmm, I guess I'm in that 8% education-wise, not a single mother, I am in the age group. Over all I would have to say this quiz missed by a mile. Although I despise labels, if I had to choose one for myself in this context I would say "moderate Independent" would fit me best. I guess these quizzes are much like polls in their precise accuracy.

you just like me, know what we are,, no matter what anyone else thinks.

Like I said, WE HAD TWO BAD CHOICES IN NOVEMBER 2004! Lets hope for better choices in 2008!

I'm sure you would love a socialist like Hillary Clinton.

I mean Slick Willy was disliked but gained way more support internationally than Dubya.

Ohh... Good old Bill got about the same support internationally for Bosnia and Serbia. I remember demonstrations in the European streets back then too.

(How soon people's memories fade.)

What is the definition of a Republican?

For some [namely left leaning independents and democrats] they are neo-con deathcult members.....

Here are the definitions i've found:

Dictionary.com--> Link

Wikipedia.com--> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican

WebstersDictionaryOnline--> http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=Republican&x=7&y=17

wish I could say the same.. I do get pissy, angry if you must hear the words. glad you are so even tempered, even if you do lean left.. way left.

Wow, well maybe you have a problem. I don't really see how I could get affected by something that means nothing to me but hey that's just me. Now how do you know I lean to the left? I haven't even began to show my views, my statement was simply that I believe George W. Bush could do better with how the country views him. How does that imply I'm on the left. Maybe you also have a problem of assuming way too much. Why is it that anyone that even slightly disagrees with something Bush related they automatically paint them on the left, or a socialist, or a communist? I mean what are we in the 50's? Am I supposed to conform to the majority. Heck no. And I will repeat this because it's amazing how people within a certain group think like a herd. Just because I find something Bush is doing as ridiculous does not automatically mean I love Bill Clinton. It's amazing to me that every debate I get in with a so called "conservative" or "moderate" it turns into them trashing Bill Clinton. That argument is tired and old. Is there no creativity anymore. I need a challenge.

#33 by Island Dog Tuesday, May 03, 2005

Like I said, WE HAD TWO BAD CHOICES IN NOVEMBER 2004! Lets hope for better choices in 2008! I'm sure you would love a socialist like Hillary Clinton.

it's just a ploy so bill can serve another term pulling shrillery strings.

#34 by Lee1776 Tuesday, May 03, 2005

I mean Slick Willy was disliked but gained way more support internationally than Dubya. Ohh... Good old Bill got about the same support internationally for Bosnia and Serbia. I remember demonstrations in the European streets back then too. (How soon people's memories fade.)

it's called "democratic dementia"

it's called "democratic dementia"

George W. Bush is hated around the world. Americans are 10 times more disliked now than they were in 10 years ago. Do you guys even travel?

it's called "democratic dementia"

George W. Bush is hated around the world. Americans are 10 times more disliked now than they were in 10 years ago. You don't have to be Democratic to see that just not blind. Do you guys even travel?

George W. Bush is hated around the world. Americans are 10 times more disliked now than they were in 10 years ago. Do you guys even travel?

Yes, that's one of the many thing I do in my job and vaction in Europe once a years (lately in Germany or Eastern Europe). I also have friends and relatives who I regularly correspond with located around the world, mostly in Europe and Asia. Clinton may have been liked more for not having a Black and white attitude or the Texan pushiness of Bush. But yes I will admit Bush is not liked around the world. But I have not found that Americans in General are less liked or even hated anymore then before the last ten years. More Europeans feel that no matter what military actions any American administration takes it is inherently wrong. They also feel that after this president leaves office Americans will return to their normal liberal selves. But I have already told my Europeans friends that Americans are naturally Conservative at heart, and there may be no returning to that softer side.

My statement above was not to Bash Clinton. I personally think he did the right thing in Bosnia, but not Serbia. He never got approval from the UN, the European people, or the US Congress for the action. Could you enigmagnetic point out one time since Vietnam that the European public supported an American show of force? I think the first Gulf War was the only time, but there was still mass demonstrations in the streets and most European counties still did not support the invasion until after Saddam over ran five (to include the French) Embassies. You remember the pictures of the young British Child being displayed next to Saddam. Only those made them change their minds. I dated a girl that attended one of those demonstrations and she was appalled that most of the demonstration organizers were Socialist, Communist, or America get out of Germany groups. Her and her friends left after the four speeches, finding it a quote “Stomach churning event”.

American actions in Lebanon, Grenada, Panama, Libya, Bosnia, Serbia, and even Somalia were opposed by most Europeans. What has changed?

That's My Two Cents

that the European public supported an American show of force?

Sure, Afghanistan. (not Iraq)

Lee, you make some good points, but I have traveled as well, and in my experiences I have noticed an increase in Anti-Americanism abroad, and it's not limited to Europe. I think that was has changed is the fact that we are now a lot more unilateral than in the past, and I think Bush (and he recently recognized this) has used very condescending and unneccessary remarks about other nations, and has exhibited such cowboy bravado with some of his statements he's made (branding North Korea as part of the axis of evil when he first came into office when they were willing to have talks with the U.S. only to cause their alienation) only to then remain quiet for things like the recent shooting in the school in Michigan and waiting for 4 days to say something about the Tsunami in Asia, which he was criticized for, two very simple things to prevent. That was my first point, that considering how crippled the Democratic party is he does not enjoy broad support. I do believe that Americans are conservative at heart and I agree with many conservative ideals myself. Looking at the term conservative in a U.S. college textbook and then comparing this administrations actions they are not a match. Conservatives should believe that the state and the federal government should hold equal power. With that said with things like the Patriot Act or the Terry Schiavo incident the federal government increasingly is gaining more power over the states which goes against the conservative ideology. IMHO that's flirting with Neocon status. I love this country and to see some of my rights eroded, and giving the government further control of my life is not something I agree with. While agree that the U.S. has been disliked for their imperialistic enterprises in the past, currently it is at a peak. Even the U.S. is divided, I mean look at this last election and how bitterly split this nation has become. Bush may have received some support as of late for the Iraq war if he hadn't set this mentality that basically said you're either with us or not at all. Nations may have been involved with the rebuilding of Iraq, instead of most of the money going to one company (Halliburton) who interestingly enough saw Dick Cheney as C.E.O. very recently and who will still enjoy kick backs from the company. That's another story though. I guess I don't fully disagree with what you said and I'm glad you said it.

P.S. I don't think my memory has faded that much.

Reply #43 By: enigmagnetic - 5/4/2005 3:52:55 PM that the European public supported an American show of force? Sure, Afghanistan. (not Iraq)

You make some good points yourself. Many trash Germany for not supporting us in Iraq, but they have provided more troops in Afghanistan then any other country at great change to their international policies. But France disserves every bit of trashing it receives.

I do disagree on some of the Contracting issues, because Halliburton was the only service company that had the assets in the area when we needed it (it up to you to consider if that was a conspiracy or not). But I have no problem reopening bids to any companies from the coalition of the willing.

Looking at the term conservative in a U.S. college textbook and then comparing this administrations actions they are not a match.

I agree completely on the libertarian (Classic Liberalism) side of conservatism, but the administration is still on the money with the social conservatism side though IMO. I don't like it very much, but the Democrats have provided a much less pleasing ideology since the 60s.

Also I have noticed too many who use the name Neocon on JoeUser as of late seldomly know who they are, their history and what their policies really are. I'm thinking of posting something on the subject soon.

in my experiences I have noticed an increase in Anti-Americanism abroad, and it's not limited to Europe.

My experience is usually with my military business associated, my wife’s business associates, wife’s family; past friends or people I meet during backpacking through some beautiful countryside’s. The Anti-Americanism IMO has not really changed, but your experience maybe with more larger cities, where I have noticed it is more prevalent (but not higher as of late).

I think that was has changed is the fact that we are now a lot more unilateral than in the past, and I think Bush (and he recently recognized this) has used very condescending and unneccessary remarks about other nations, and has exhibited such cowboy bravado with some of his statements he's made

That is just that Texan attitude thing, most Americans have learned to live with (except New Englanders), but most Europeans have a hard time understanding. I lived in OK for a few years near the Texas Boarder and had to suffer through hearing it on the airwaves.


You just don't know how annoying it is to an Oklahoman, to be called a Tex-Oman.