I’ve never deleted a comment on my forum before, but there has been so much horrible, lowbrow insult-throwing that I felt a need to clean it up a bit. I have left some of it because it is unfortunately contained in the same post as some sort of an argument (and because there seems to be a limit on how many you can delete). I have also deleted as much off-topic stuff as possible. I suppose at least you didn’t turn this into another communism Vs capitalism debate.
A lot of people have been complaining about having their arguments ignored. Ironically, these are the same people who have ignored large chunks of my last post in favour of going off-topic or insulting someone.
Dr Guy, I just had a check back on what I’d written and I can’t see where I slammed LW. She provided some stats. I retorted with some stats which I actually sourced. That’s debate. I suggested to her that French people would be p***ed off at her if she said the French were like the Poms (actually how has that gone down with your hubby lW? Actually, let’s not get into that).
Just because dabe may write an aggressive and rude blog, does not mean that everything he writes is rude and aggressive. Up til this blog LW has always managed to control herself nicely on my blog, despite the diatribes that appear in her own lair.
What is anti-American about…
“I don't want you to think that all Americans are as blatantly racist”
“At present, we're not doing so well, either. Steered and segregated housing and schools, and aversion to languages other than English come to mind.”
? Or did I miss the un-American bit?
Dabe has a right to criticise his Government. That’s not a reflection on his country. He disagrees with Bush’s agenda. But he is quite clearly proud of his country’s diversity and of the people who value it. He thinks America could do some things better. That is not unpatriotic. There are many things I’m sure you’d like to see improved too.
“Yes, and they fought bloody wars with each other”
I normally fight with people I can speak with, not the other way around, but I suppose it’s a possible theory on why there were so many wars. I just don’t agree with it. I think dabe offers a better theory (in amongst a disappointingly abusive post).
“The first step towards contrasting cultures living peacefully together, CS, is Diplomacy..”
As I said regarding Iraq. We agree.
“these mysterious 'many europeans'”
I’ve spent a fair portion of my life in Europe and found that they laugh when you say how impressive it is that people can speak English (a comment I made based on reputation). They then prove to you why it ain’t so impressive. However, their grasp of continental languages is. I guess we have different experience of Europe.
“would it be ok for me to state that "Niggers breed like rabbits?"
Possibly not. I won’t get bogged down in the minutiae of this point though. It was a passing comment, it wasn’t meant as a bad reflection on us. Sorry if I offended you.
“I wasn't aware that you had lost that right, but if you have, then by all means I support your efforts to "reclaim" it.”
Thankyou. It’s not legally lost or anything, I just have found that something we used to be very vocal about has been shrouded in silence, while the racists are more and more vocal. And I’m sick of it. Sick to bloody death of it.
“sometimes it's hard to find doctors,”
Ok firstly, we’re supposed to be talking about Australia, and this is not a problem here. I’d suggest your grievance therefore should be with your medical system, not immigrants, but that debate is for another time. Even if it were a problem here, let’s just imagine then that these immigrants instead don’t go into medicine. Is your problem solved?
However, I think I would agree with you that in circumstances such as emergency sections of hospitals that an English fluency requirement is acceptable. However, I see no problem with a Chinese doctor out in the bush, in a largely Chinese community (this is an actual A Current Affair example) who can’t speak English. If he chooses to limit his clientele, that’s his choice. Even in the city, that’s his choice. Just keep away from the emergency room. Fair?
“When I insist on being able to communicate freely and be understood by any medical doctor practicing here in the US, I get accused of:
Imposing a monolingual culture in any particular corner of it is ostensibly forcing a specific, restricted, culturally dictated view of the world upon its members.
May I suggest that this has something to do with the way you express yourself LW. One minute you get all aggro, then you act surprised when people get aggro back. And then you try to make out like you were saying something reasonably. You weren’t. If you stay calm people will engage with your points more often. They’ll talk with you less, but the quality of response improves.
“I'm bi-lingual myself”
I’m impressed.
“zero effect on my "world view."”
I’m disappointed. It changed mine.
“by requiring fluency in English, I'd think that if it affected their world view at all, it would expand it,”
Interesting argument. Actually it’s one I totally agree with. That’s why schooling these days is so focussed on increasing students’ linguistic repertoires so that they know when to use a specific language or dialect.
But I think I just noticed something about LW’s rhetorical techniques here (you’ll be proud to know that Aristotle would be impressed LW). She brings up the doctor example because it’s one we’re much more likely to agree with. There is certainly a decent case for her on that point. But by extension I’m supposed to agree with everything the anti-multiculturalists say. And I don’t. I like hearing different languages in the streets. I don’t have a problem with coming across grocery store owners with barely minimal English. I even like it. Apart from a few life/death situations, I like this aspect of diversity.
“go to Indonesia. You're not going to find any of your beloved diversity”
Exactly my point. That is why I love Australia so much. Because you can’t get that barely anywhere else on the planet.
“I'm married to an immigrant”
I knew this. But he’s an Anglo by birth and culture, so claiming this as an appreciation of diverse immigration is falling into the same trap you accused me of.
“Champas - Australia is about to get even more multicultural”
Hopefully they come to Brisbane.
“this is NOT rocket science:
If your saying”
Nor is correct grammar rocket science, drmiler. Yet another bloody doctor who can’t speak English!!!!
“The modern multiculturalism movement advocates diversity without unity.”
Rubbish. I have advocated diversity within Unity quite explicitly in my original post (remember it?). I am a proud Australian who likes multiculturalism.
The comments I have ignored were not engaging enough to warrant response.
