The latest insanity in america

Drug store operaters dictating moral values

from JoeUser Forums
Picture this, you are a gay man, walk into a drug store with your partner and try to buy some condoms, the pharmacist refuses to sell condoms because in his mind homosexuality is evil.

A female walks into the same store asks for birth control, the drugman says no, birth control is against my religion.

A hetrosexual couple walks into the same store,asks for condoms and the druggist asks "are you married?" before selling them or not.

This is really happening, right now, here in america.

Has the world gone insane?
7,871 views 28 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top
Has the world gone insane?

No. I don't agree with the practice, personally, but you have to allow people the right to do business the way they want. I wouldn't think a such phamacist would be very competitive unless he operated in a very, very backwater, morally conservative area. In that case he'd probably be giving the communitee what they want.

It's more of a small symptom of a large problem, i.e. morally conservative America feeling like they are obliged to validate lifestyles they may adamantly disagree with. I'd be willing to bet that you won't find a handful of such stores in a nation with tens of thousands of them.

Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top
People forget that when they are working for someone else, they don't get to make policy for the company. If that pharmacist wants to decide what he will and won't sell, then he needs to open his own pharmacy. Until he does, he is accepting a paycheck from a company and is responsible to that company to uphold their policies.

If the pharmacist did open his own drug store, and chose to offer beer, would he feel the same about an employee who breaks his policies by refusing to ring up beer for customers who choose to buy it from his store?
Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion
Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top

If that pharmacist wants to decide what he will and won't sell, then he needs to open his own pharmacy. Until he does, he is accepting a paycheck from a company and is responsible to that company to uphold their policies.

Exactly. 

Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top
" People forget that when they are working for someone else, they don't get to make policy for the company. If that pharmacist wants to decide what he will and won't sell, then he needs to open his own pharmacy."


I assume it is his own pharmacy. Nothing here states otherwise.
Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top

No. I don't agree with the practice, personally, but you have to allow people the right to do business the way they want.

I agree with Baker.  For this is not a cut and dried as your simple examples indicate.  California, your state, is trying to dictate to Catholic hospitals that they perform abortions, something clearly against their doctrine.  And that is the state dictating to religion.

It is not like a Catholic hospital is the only place a person can get an abortion.  There are chop shops on almost every corner in this country that will gladly do it.  But it is the supposed moralist trying to tear down a religion that they do not agree with.

IN your examples, if you own the business, there is a simple solution.  Make it a policy not to stock the objectionable items.  Period.  People can always get it from somewhere else, and the market will decide if you stay in business following your own set of morals.

You do not have that luxury when you work for someone else, as you have to follow their policies.

But do not deny me my beliefs and force me to violate them just because you are too lazy to walk down the street to another place that will accomodate you.

WHile my Church also is against contraception, I would not have a problem selling condoms to whomever, but I can see where some would.  But I do have a real problem with anyone trying to make me perform an abortion just because it is legal. It is legal (if wrong), and you can get it from a Presbyterian or Methodist.  You do not have to make me compromise my beliefs to get what you want.

Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top
Should the same pharmacist be allowed to deny service to a black man because he thinks them inferior? How about refusing to sell anything to a woman without a husband or a father present to approve the purchase.

It's a fine line to walk when you bring your personal morality into managing a business or providing services.
Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top
Should the same pharmacist be allowed to deny service to a black man because he thinks them inferior? How about refusing to sell anything to a woman without a husband or a father present to approve the purchase.

It's a fine line to walk when you bring your personal morality into managing a business or providing services.


Yes it is, for any moral objection can be turned into a prejudice one, and vice versa. However, we are not talking inferior, but immoral. And I suppose is someone could prove that they belong to a religion that believed that (since none realy exist today), then, besides being just an ignoramus, they should be allowed to do it. And the market could then decide.

I am not hurting you by refusing you service in my establishment. You do have alternatives. I am only hurting myself, and so I better have a good reason to, or I am just cutting off my nose to spite my face.
Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top
Reply By: BakerStreetPosted: Friday, April 15, 2005Has the world gone insane?No. I don't agree with the practice, personally, but you have to allow people the right to do business the way they want. I wouldn't think a such phamacist would be very competitive unless he operated in a very, very backwater, morally conservative area. In that case he'd probably be giving the communitee what they want. It's more of a small symptom of a large problem, i.e. morally conservative America feeling like they are obliged to validate lifestyles they may adamantly disagree with. I'd be willing to bet that you won't find a handful of such stores in a nation with tens of thousands of them.


I think that ANYONE ramming there religious morality is just plain wrong, and on top of that, real bad buisness.
Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top
Reply By: ParaTed2kPosted: Friday, April 15, 2005People forget that when they are working for someone else, they don't get to make policy for the company. If that pharmacist wants to decide what he will and won't sell, then he needs to open his own pharmacy. Until he does, he is accepting a paycheck from a company and is responsible to that company to uphold their policies.If the pharmacist did open his own drug store, and chose to offer beer, would he feel the same about an employee who breaks his policies by refusing to ring up beer for customers who choose to buy it from his store?


Good question ted, I think if we allow anyone to dictate there moral view from a service standpoint we are in trouble.
Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top
Reply By: BakerStreetPosted: Friday, April 15, 2005" People forget that when they are working for someone else, they don't get to make policy for the company. If that pharmacist wants to decide what he will and won't sell, then he needs to open his own pharmacy."I assume it is his own pharmacy. Nothing here states othe


I did not get that info from the news show I was watching {joe scarborough}
Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top
Reply By: Dr. GuyPosted: Friday, April 15, 2005No. I don't agree with the practice, personally, but you have to allow people the right to do business the way they want.I agree with Baker. For this is not a cut and dried as your simple examples indicate. California, your state, is trying to dictate to Catholic hospitals that they perform abortions, something clearly against their doctrine. And that is the state dictating to religion.It is not like a Catholic hospital is the only place a person can get an abortion. There are chop shops on almost every corner in this country that will gladly do it. But it is the supposed moralist trying to tear down a religion that they do not agree with.IN your examples, if you own the business, there is a simple solution. Make it a policy not to stock the objectionable items. Period. People can always get it from somewhere else, and the market will decide if you stay in business following your own set of morals.You do not have that luxury when you work for someone else, as you have to follow their policies.But do not deny me my beliefs and force me to violate them just because you are too lazy to walk down the street to another place that will accomodate you.WHile my Church also is against contraception, I would not have a problem selling condoms to whomever, but I can see where some would. But I do have a real problem with anyone trying to make me perform an abortion just because it is legal. It is legal (if wrong), and you can get it from a Presbyterian or Methodist. You do not have to make me compromise my beliefs to get what you want.


terrific points doc, succient.
Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top
Reply By: ZoombaPosted: Friday, April 15, 2005Should the same pharmacist be allowed to deny service to a black man because he thinks them inferior? How about refusing to sell anything to a woman without a husband or a father present to approve the purchase.It's a fine line to walk when you bring your personal morality into managing a business or providing services.


yes once these kinds of practices start, where do they stop, does a muslim that owns a store refuse service to a jew or visa versa.
Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top
I do agree though, that any merchant dumb enough to take that attitude likely isn't going to last long since eventually they'll just piss off most of their customer base and they'll go elsewhere.

I have no problem if a business owner chooses to not provide given services or products because they don't believe in them, but I don't think they're allowed to selectively decide who can and can not purchase products they do sell. If you sell condoms, you don't get to choose which people get to buy them. You shouldn't be able to play selective morals depending on the day of the week or phases of the moon.

How long would I last without being sued if I only sold services to people who belonged to a certain political party? I could even post a sign saying "Voter Registration Card required as part of ID Verification. We do not provide services to Democrats due to moral objections" Switch Democrats with whatever your own political affiliation is and think of how you would feel, and what you would want done about it.

"And the sign said long haired, freaky lookin people, need not apply..."
Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top
There is legislation pending on the federal level that would allow a "hand off" to another pharmacist to insure that service could not be denied based on the pharmacist's personal beliefs.

My friend Mike is a pharmacist. He was telling me that it is a major problem nowadays. He works with two other pharmacists who are both active Mormons and they are considering denying filling scrips based on their ethics.

But he also told me that the company policy is to fire any employee who refuses to do their job. Good call!
Reply #15 from JoeUser Forums Top
Reply By: thatoneguyinslcPosted: Friday, April 15, 2005There is legislation pending on the federal level that would allow a "hand off" to another pharmacist to insure that service could not be denied based on the pharmacist's personal beliefs.My friend Mike is a pharmacist. He was telling me that it is a major problem nowadays. He works with two other pharmacists who are both active Mormons and they are considering denying filling scrips based on their ethics.But he also told me that the company policy is to fire any employee who refuses to do their job. Good


real good call, to deny someone a serive based on personal beliefs is insane, are we ready to go back to the days of jim crow> white and black water fountains>?
Reply #16 from JoeUser Forums Top
If you sell condoms, you don't get to choose which people get to buy them.


That was better stated than I did. But I have said that in previous threads. Stil, that gets you a cookie.
Reply #17 from JoeUser Forums Top
"And the sign said long haired, freaky lookin people, need not apply..."


So I stuck my hair up under my hat and went in to ask him why.....
Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top
And the sign said long haired, freaky lookin people, need not apply..."


I just cut my hair off and sent the 17 inch ponytail to "locks of love" who provides free hair peices to children that are having chemo therapy and have lost there hair.
Reply #19 from JoeUser Forums Top
I like cookies
Reply #20 from JoeUser Forums Top
I guess this is happening more often than I thought. The case with which I have been following happened here in Wisconsin. Not only did the pharmacist refuse to fill the prescription, but it was also Sunday when the woman's doctor could not be reached to transfer the prescription to another pharmacy. The pharmacist apparently also refused to give the woman her perscription slip back to her.

Not only did he refuse to fill the prescription, but he felt that his religious beliefs went to far as to prevent her from getting the hormone replacement medicine from anybody... and no, since it was a pharmacy in a major chain store, he didn't own it.
Reply #21 from JoeUser Forums Top
Reply By: ParaTed2kPosted: Friday, April 15, 2005I guess this is happening more often than I thought. The case with which I have been following happened here in Wisconsin. Not only did the pharmacist refuse to fill the prescription, but it was also Sunday when the woman's doctor could not be reached to transfer the prescription to another pharmacy. The pharmacist apparently also refused to give the woman her perscription slip back to her.Not only did he refuse to fill the prescription, but he felt that his religious beliefs went to far as to prevent her from getting the hormone replacement medicine from anybody... and no, since it was a pharmacy in a major chain store, he didn't own it.


I am glad that did not happen to my wife, although old and ill I still would have went over the counter and taken her script back, maybe would have taken his lunch money too....... bawwwwwahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Reply #22 from JoeUser Forums Top
I think you guys are losing track of what "rights" are. This has the creeping stench of the ACLU on it.

There's no reason we should be forced by the government to do business with ANYONE we choose not to. You don't have the right to say anything you want here, and you don't have the "right" to force the owner of a private business to sell you something when he doesn't want to.

If a store owner refuses to sell you something, he isn't preventing you from buying it, you can just go down the road to the next store. If, on the other hand, you force that store owner to do business according to YOUR ideals, then his rights have been soundly abused.

So, people who want to force pharmacists to do business against their will are much more in the business of treading on people's rights.
Reply #23 from JoeUser Forums Top
There's no reason we should be forced by the government to do business with ANYONE we choose not to. You don't have the right to say anything you want here, and you don't have the "right" to force the owner of a private business to sell you something when he doesn't want to.


I agree, I would be completely against the government telling a private business owner which legal products can and can't be sold. On the other hand, that same private business owner has every right to set the policies for his or her business. The employee does not, however, have the right to decide which policies he or she will and won't comply with.

It I was a grocery store cashier, would you put up with me ringing up your whole order, but refusing to ring up your beer?
Reply #24 from JoeUser Forums Top
*boggle*

No offense, but I dunno wtf you are talking about, para. If it is a "rogue cashier", then it isn't a policy, and there is nothing to bitch about. They just get fired, the people get apologized to, yadda yadda. It wouldn't be news, because they wouldn't last 10 minutes.

"It I was a grocery store cashier, would you put up with me ringing up your whole order, but refusing to ring up your beer?"


What do you mean "put up with?" I would have him call the manager over, and I'd either get my beer or go elsewhere. As a 35 year old, married male, if they aren't gonna sell to me, there's no point in carrying it. Regardless, they have the right to refuse to serve anyone they want.

If I say they have to buy from me, how much different would it be for someone to tell me I have to buy from them. Same difference.
Reply #25 from JoeUser Forums Top
No Bakerstreet, owners can't pick who they serve and who they sell to...

Such actions are illegal under the Civil Rights Act of 1964. If things like that really happen, they should complain.