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drmiler
Join Date 09/2004
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Teachers need guns!

March 27, 2005 1:52:24 PM from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
This is a reposted AP story

By ARTHUR H. ROTSTEIN
Associated Press Writer

March 25, 2005, 7:55 PM EST


PHOENIX -- All options should be considered to prevent rampages like the Minnesota school shooting that took 10 lives -- including making guns available to teachers, a top National Rifle Association leader said Friday.

"I'm not saying that that means every teacher should have a gun or not, but what I am saying is we need to look at all the options at what will truly protect the students," the NRA's first vice president, Sandra S. Froman, told The Associated Press.

Gun-control restrictions would not have prevented Jeff Weise, 16, from killing nine people and himself Monday at Red Lake High School near Bemidji, Minn., said Froman, an attorney expected next month to be elected president of the NRA, which claims 4 million members.

The presence of an unarmed guard at the school failed to stop the siege, she noted.

"No gun law, no policy that you could implement now or that was already implemented, I think, could possibly prevent someone so intent on destruction," she said. "I think everything's on the table as far as looking at what we need to do to make our schools safe for our students."

Froman said if it is the responsibility of teachers to protect students in a school, "then we as a society, we as a community have to provide a way for the teachers to do that."

Froman cited the 1997 school shooting incident in Pearl, Miss., where a teacher retrieved a gun from his car when a student opened fire, then held the student at bay until police arrived.

A law prohibiting guns in schools "is not going to stop someone who has evil in their heart and who has the capacity to commit those crimes from doing them," Froman said.
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drmiler
drmiler
Join Date 09/2004
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Reply #1 March 27, 2005 2:32:00 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Every one has been screaming about more gun controls. But I have "yet" to hear anyone say this. Both of the last 2 major shootings were done with guns stolen from "COPS"! So now what? Do we take the guns away from police too?
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bakerstreet
Join Date 03/2001
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Reply #2 March 27, 2005 4:11:30 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
With all due respect, this is a silly idea.

I spent 20+ years of my life in and around education. In all that time, I might have met 10 that I would feel safe knowing they had a gun on them. I have had teachers that I didn't feel safe around UNARMED.

In addition, this would simply get guns into school FOR kids to use. Teachers are not going to tolerate an ankle-holster, or anything else, no matter how out-of-the-way. The teachers I had would simply throw it in a desk drawer for the deranged in their class to seize and use at will.

Then there's the sticky business of "suicide by teacher", or teachers abusing their right to carry the guns themselves. We can't keep teachers from screwing 14 year olds, why should they be any more responsible with guns?

Pilots, sure. There's no reason for them to be interacting with the passengers, they are locked in the cockpit, and they wear a uniform that could accomodate a firearm. Teachers? Pfft.
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TheFazz
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Reply #3 March 27, 2005 8:50:05 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Honestly, there are some teachers at my school I would not feel safe around if they were armed.
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latour999
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Reply #4 March 27, 2005 11:09:07 PM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
Honestly, there are some teachers at my school I would not feel safe around if they were armed.


Agreed. Plus the chance that a 200 pound kid who is the star of the ______ team innocently approaching the 110 pound female teacher, then not so innocently reaching for her gun with the element of surprise...
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dabe
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Reply #5 March 27, 2005 11:13:04 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Exceedingly dumb idea
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TheFazz
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Reply #6 March 27, 2005 11:15:00 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Or even an agitated teacher trying to calm an unruly class down...
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bakerstreet
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Reply #7 March 28, 2005 12:28:35 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
" Exceedingly dumb idea"


Exceedingly un-insightful post, as usual. My apologies for criticism of the rhetorically challenged.
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Evorg
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Reply #8 March 28, 2005 12:42:39 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
What type of firearms are you considering?

There are new generations of non-lethal firearms that are very effective.

But has it really gotten to the point of arming teachers?

I don't think I am ready to agree to arm teachers.
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dabe
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Reply #9 March 28, 2005 7:11:52 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Sorry I didn't give it the emphasis it deserved.

EXCEEDINGLY DUMB, STUPID, MORONIC, AND FUCKINGLY DANGEROUS IDEA
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drmiler
drmiler
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Reply #10 March 28, 2005 7:48:00 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I shouls have posted this in the first place. The teachers need to go through the same/type of training program that airline pilots do.
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TheFazz
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Reply #11 March 28, 2005 12:55:43 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
And that means it is impossible to overpower them? Going back to what Latour said, a frail, 67 year old grandmother isn't going to put up much of a fight against a determined student.
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Reply #12 March 28, 2005 1:06:07 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
And that means it is impossible to overpower them? Going back to what Latour said, a frail, 67 year old grandmother isn't going to put up much of a fight against a determined student.


You don't like my idea? fine. Then come up with a better one. And don't use more gun control since the last 2 shootings were done with guns stolen from cops!
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TheFazz
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Reply #13 March 28, 2005 3:44:53 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I was merely pointing out the flaws in your idea. I haven't a better one. If I did, I would be more than willing to share it with you. Sadly, the problem of school shootings is a very difficult one to solve.
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drmiler
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Reply #14 March 28, 2005 3:55:36 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I was merely pointing out the flaws in your idea. I haven't a better one. If I did, I would be more than willing to share it with you. Sadly, the problem of school shootings is a very difficult one to solve.


And just an FYI.... that 67year old grandmother does NOT need to be the one that's armed. It should be the 6'2 dude down the hall teaching 2nd grade. I never made the claim that ALL teachers should be armed. Just allow those that think they can handle it to do it, after they've been trained.
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bakerstreet
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Reply #15 March 28, 2005 4:07:26 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
67 year old grandmothers don't often (ever?) go nuts at work and start killing people. Underpaid male civil servants have been known to.

Bad idea, imho, and I am adamantly anti-gun control, adamantly pro-ownership at a level beyond what we are allowed now. I have been to school, and worked as security in a college, and I'll tell you right now, arming teachers is a Bad Idea.

The worst moments I ever had in campus security had more to do with the teachers than the students, every single time.
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drmiler
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Reply #16 March 28, 2005 5:25:26 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
67 year old grandmothers don't often (ever?) go nuts at work and start killing people. Underpaid male civil servants have been known to.

Bad idea, imho, and I am adamantly anti-gun control, adamantly pro-ownership at a level beyond what we are allowed now. I have been to school, and worked as security in a college, and I'll tell you right now, arming teachers is a Bad Idea.

The worst moments I ever had in campus security had more to do with the teachers than the students, every single time.


We keep forgetting about things like this:



The Clarion-Ledger, Jackson, MS, 10/2/97
Alarmed at the sound of gunfire in the halls of his Pearl, Mississippi, high school, Assistant Principal Joel Myrick ran to his car to retrieve a pistol. The shooter was an armed student who marched through the school firing on his fellow classmates and teachers. The assailant's efforts to escape the scene ground to a halt when another student used his own vehicle to force the suspect's white car into the grass, where it spun to a stop. Myrick used the delay to catch up to the armed student and hold him for police. Pearl schools Superintendent Bill Dodson said of Myrick, "We think he's a hero for keeping more lives from being lost. The young man with the gun still had rounds in the rifle and could have injured other people."
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latour999
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Reply #17 March 28, 2005 5:51:14 PM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
You don't like my idea? fine. Then come up with a better one. And don't use more gun control since the last 2 shootings were done with guns stolen from cops!


Were the guns used in the Red Lake shooting locked up? Was the ammo locked up? Could "they" have done more for the kid to prevent him from going nuts?

Underpaid male civil servants have been known to.


Like teachers with guns?
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drmiler
drmiler
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Reply #18 March 28, 2005 5:53:38 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

You don't like my idea? fine. Then come up with a better one. And don't use more gun control since the last 2 shootings were done with guns stolen from cops!


Were the guns used in the Red Lake shooting locked up? Was the ammo locked up? Could "they" have done more for the kid to prevent him from going nuts?


Try a little more "comprehension"! The guns belonged to "police officers! Now you wanna lock up cops guns? And BTW, you never did address my point. You got a better idea? FINE! Lets HEAR it!
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latour999
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Reply #19 March 28, 2005 6:16:18 PM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
Now you wanna lock up cops guns?


I'm sorry, I guess locking up your guns when there are kids in your house is a crazy, incomprehensible idea. My bad.
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drmiler
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Reply #20 March 28, 2005 6:46:04 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Now you wanna lock up cops guns?


I'm sorry, I guess locking up your guns when there are kids in your house is a crazy, incomprehensible idea. My bad.


This is sheerly idiotic! Of the 2 shootings, the one police officer was ON DUTY just how the hell are you going to lock up the gun?


"No gun law, no policy that you could implement now or that was already implemented, I think, could possibly prevent someone so intent on destruction,"


Use your head for more than a hat rack.
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bakerstreet
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Reply #21 March 28, 2005 7:12:29 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Blame, blame, blame.

Instead of blaming guns, or blaming society for not letting teacher's pack heat, why not accept the fact that a sick kid killed people. Why not blame the criminal? Why not try and find out if the drugs we are treating "depressed" teens with turns some of them into maniacs?

To me, this is a knee-jerk response, that creates daily dangers in the hopes of stopping very rare ones. There's no way that schools could deal with the liability of teachers accidently shooting kids, or kids getting the gun from a teacher and shooting other kids.

Just because people can't think of some way to keep kids from killing kids doesn't mean that arming teachers is better than what we have. You are enough of a debator to know that just because someone doesn't have a better idea doesn't mean your idea is feasable.
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drmiler
Texas Wahine
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Reply #22 March 28, 2005 7:26:28 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
It's hard to believe this is actually something being suggested. The day we arm teachers is the day my kids are homeschooled.
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MarcieMoo
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Reply #23 March 28, 2005 7:30:19 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Maybe a taser? Is that what it's called? A stun gun? I had a FIRST grader...a FIRST grader bring a knife (be it a toy knife) to school stuck in his sock and show me like he was proud...

Do I feel unsafe? Yeah...I do...but not to the point where I would quit my job. I'm scared that irrational parents will come into my classroom because I'm "allowing" their little girl to kiss boys on the playground while I'm at lunch and they're supervised by another adult on the playground, I gave their daughter a "B" in math, or...just cause. I don't know what some of my kids have been around...I can assume that some of them have been around violence and weapons and know how to use them. And at 6 and 7, they're not thinking "oh...if I use this pistol on my teacher she's dead." They don't understand what "dead" means. They think everything will be okay and they won't get into trouble or anything...

That's what's scary. And what's even scarier is how these kids aren't supervised at home. What happens at home comes out at school, parents. I see how sexually aware your kids are. So...how much cable do you let them watch? How much time to you allow your son to spend with is girlfriend in your living room unsupervised? Your little ones are watching their older siblings AND you parents...be a good example.
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dabe
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Reply #24 March 28, 2005 8:03:52 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Instead of blaming guns, or blaming society for not letting teacher's pack heat, why not accept the fact that a sick kid killed people. Why not blame the criminal? Why not try and find out if the drugs we are treating "depressed" teens with turns some of them into maniacs?


Thank you, Bakerstreet. This is the most sensible thing written in this thread, so far. The kid in MN was screwed up. All we, as a society, can do is wonder how to prevent this from happening again. How do we see the warning signs that the kid was screwed up? How do we keep guns away from kids? How do we teach kids to deal with their frustration in constructive ways? Etc........

For all the questions we may ask, I don't think we can prevent this stuff 100%. Someone will fall below the radar, and blow. It's part of life's general risks. It's unfortunately one of the manifestations in the flaws of humanity.

But, arming teachers? I don't think so, because that will do nothing to head off a kid that is about to kill other kids. It will only make the situation potentially more dangerous. I wish we, as a society have all the answers. We don't. We just try to do the best we can.
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couchman
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Reply #25 March 28, 2005 8:15:23 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
EXCEEDINGLY DUMB, STUPID, MORONIC, AND FUCKINGLY DANGEROUS ID


Gee Dabe....your begining to resemble an attention whore.....

Instead of blaming guns, or blaming society for not letting teacher's pack heat, why not accept the fact that a sick kid killed people. Why not blame the criminal?


What and actually blame those responsible instead of the gun industry or some psuedo psycological disorder?? Heavens no...cant do that...next thing one knows is we actually hold all criminals accountable instead of the victims.
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