Does Jesus Christ have more of a beef with Bin Laden or Bush

from JoeUser Forums
First off, I¡¦m aware that it¡¦s a ridiculous comparison in the sense that its obvious that if you take seriously the teachings of Jesus as revealed through the Gospels, then the answer is both of them. But for those people who are blind but are willing to take a chance and look closely at the comparison, please read on:

„h Thy Shall Not Kill. Bin Laden is obvious on this one. Bush actually put a ¡§hit¡¨ on Saddam. Under Bush, Texas has executed quite a number of people. Under Bush, policies that promote poverty has created a class of malnourished children.
„h Beatitudes: ¡§It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.¡¨ Both Bush and Bin Laden are rich. Bush as a leader, however, is actively stacking the deck in favor of solidify the class structure in America where 2% of the population owns 78% of the wealth. Perhaps he¡¦s trying to save the souls of the poor by keeping the temptation of riches out of their reach.
„h Bin Laden doesn¡¦t go around saying that he¡¦s a Christian. Now here¡¦s a sticky point: Bush, by claiming that he believes in the teachings of Jesus, and then goes around the world literally mocking the teachings of Jesus by his actions, may cause for extra scrutiny when his time is up and he has to answer for his actions.

Please, by all means, write back and defend Bush to me, logically if possible. Can anyone out there effectively pardon Bush¡¦s hypocrisy?
politics
8,961 views 20 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top
Franco Mazzaro asks:

Can anyone out there effectively pardon Bush¡¦s hypocrisy?

The answer is yes: Jesus can effectively pardon Bush's hypocrisy. And all his other sins, both heinous and trivial. Bin Laden's too, should he care to avail himself of the service.

That said, Jesus doesn't have a beef with either of these men. Rather, his sole purpose is to erase their beef with him, and restore them both (and all the rest of us) to a true and fulfilling personal relationship with the Supreme Being.

No leader is perfect. No person is perfect. Franco himself no doubt falls short of his highest ideals on a daily basis. His own moral and spiritual failings are every bit as profound as the failings of our great leaders and our great villains. They separate him utterly from God. But this is true of us all. Hypocrisy is just another word for the flawed nature of man. He acknowledges, in passing, the horrors perpetrated by Osama Bin Laden, while focusing on Bush's policies as the real ultimate evil. What he leaves out entirely is that no other president or terrorist would perform any better. The only difference would be the unique and personal manner in which their human shortcomings would manifest. The failures and the suffering that came from them would be essentially the same.

But the Jesus story is one of redemption and forgiveness of sins. Franco is the one with a beef, demanding justice against sinners whose hypocrisy and separation from God is no greater than his own.
Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top
This is how I'll defend Bush: Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

It also says in the Beatitudes:
Matt. 5:20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
Matt 5:48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

It sounds to me as though none of us are good enough and we're all headed for hell.

This is where Jesus comes in.
Elemental: Reforged
Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top
Heh. And here I thought you were just a latin nerd, buu.

This whole line of argument is kind of pointless, anyway. The answer to the question "who most needs Jesus' forgiveness?" is clearly given in the Christian scriptures: everybody is equally in need total forgiveness.

This is a corollary to the question "who most deserve God's justice?". The answer: everybody is equally deserving of God's justice.

I think Franco is speaking in terms of Jesus (God's agent of forgiveness and redemption), but what he really wants here is the Angel of Death (God's agent of justice). But even this is empty hand-waving. Both Bush and Bin Laden are wholly deserving of death and damnation under God's law. I think Franco really wishes to ask "who is more deserving of man's justice?", but cannot or will not marshal the facts and reasoning to support such a debate.
Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top

Someone once compared a Church to a Hospital.  You dont go to a hospital to find people hale and hearty, you go to find the sick.

Just like Church.  You dont go there to find the perfect saints, but the sinners hoping to get better.

Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top
I wonder which Allah has more of a beef with?
Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top
Frankly, my belief is that Jesus has a BIGGER problem with being appropriated for endorsements.

After the Packers' Superbowl XXXI win, a bestselling book in the region came out entitled "Leap of Faith: God Must be a Packer Fan". It was followed by a sequel, "Leap of Faith 2: God Loves Packer Fans". I wanted to write a book entitled "Leap of Faith 3: God has bigger things to worry about than a stupid football game!", but figured I'd get sued.

But, if we can appropriate Jesus' name for any occasion, I think I'm going to cash in on the Michael Jackson trial and start marketing "Jesus Juice" brand wine. Hey, it's all about the Benjamins, right?
Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top
I've always felt that when it comes to doing wrong, one has to look at the broader picture about the particular person the the rationale behind it. Who do you guys think is worse? And be honest. A person who does bad things and is public in his bad doings? Or a person who does bad things while telling a lot of people nowhere near events that he's doing something pure and honest and to take his word for it? The Prince of Darkness comes as a gentleman.
Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top
...a class of malnourished children...

lmao... You can spot people that have no clue and just read propaganda all day, can't ya?
Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top
Reiki-House asks:

Who do you guys think is worse? And be honest. A person who does bad things and is public in his bad doings? Or a person who does bad things while telling a lot of people nowhere near events that he's doing something pure and honest and to take his word for it?

Honestly? The man who does evil in secret, for all sorts of practical reasons.

But, wow, Reiki! Steal bases much? Bush is only as evil as you claim, if he has actually done the things you claim he's done. Here, you've skipped over this vital question entirely, pretended that we all agree on the answer, and then tried to trick us into admitting that Bush is more evil than Saddam Hussein. Clearly, your contempt for white man's logic knows no bounds!
Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top
A person who does bad things and is public in his bad doings? Or a person who does bad things while telling a lot of people nowhere near events that he's doing something pure and honest and to take his word for it? The Prince of Darkness comes as a gentleman.


The question itself is innane. There is no difference in the two people, only other's perception of them. What bad things they do might be different, but in the end it's still bad.
Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top
Jesus isn't real. Bush and bin Laden are. Let's take care of the real problems without inventing magical fairy tales to deal with them.
Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top
The Prince of Darkness comes as a gentleman


Thatis the best arguement I have seen to show that Bush is Just a man, and not evil incarnate as many on the left would have us beleive. How many liberals call George a gentleman?
Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top
Myrrander says:

Jesus isn't real. Bush and bin Laden are. Let's take care of the real problems without inventing magical fairy tales to deal with them.

Franco frames the issue in terms of Jesus, so I replied to him in terms of Jesus.

I don't think Franco did this to debate what kind of earthly justice each of these men each deserve. I think he meant to imply that Christians are hypocrites, by their own doctrines, for preferring Bush over Hussein. I also think that Franco is mistaken; a position I laid out as neatly and clearly as I could manage, in my original reply.
Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top
Don't mind Myrr. He has a reflex reaction to the name "Jesus", he has to say something snide. DOn't take it personally, I think it is a condition, like weak bowels. Shame they don't make a diaper for his problem so it wouldn't leak out...
Reply #15 from JoeUser Forums Top
Jesus isn't real. Bush and bin Laden are. Let's take care of the real problems without inventing magical fairy tales to deal with them.


Hey myrrander..... "GOD"! ( as in boo!)
Reply #16 from JoeUser Forums Top
Jesus isn't real. Bush and bin Laden are


This is the first time I've ever read you saying Bush is for real Myrr!! Usually you are implying that Bush should "Get real!" ;~D
Reply #17 from JoeUser Forums Top
I just don't like applying band-aids of the imagination to real problems.

And if I didn't say snide things, what would you have to bitch about? I'm sure you'd find something, but hey, I'll keep you from having to look for it.
Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top
I think JC would be pissed at the crap some folks (like dubya) are doing in his name. Allah too!

The problem with religion begins when you put the word "organized" in front of it!
Reply #19 from JoeUser Forums Top
thatoneguyinslc says

The problem with religion begins when you put the word "organized" in front of it!

But a good religion benefits us all by being an organized religion. For one thing, organization helps to prevent bad ideas and false doctrines from creeping into the good religion.

Likewise, a bad religion threatens us all by being organized. E.g., National Socialism: it wasn't bad because it was organized, it was bad because it was... well, bad. The organization only made it possible to perpetuate its special badness more widely, and with greater success.

Not all religions are bad like National Socialism, though. Or if they are, they're bad for reasons totally unrelated to their current level of organization.
Reply #20 from JoeUser Forums Top
I think JC would be pissed at the crap some folks (like dubya) are doing in his name. Allah too!

The problem with religion begins when you put the word "organized" in front of it!


Same with when you put "Party" in front of something. Ever notice how the Democrat Party seems much more corrupt and crazy than the average Democrat? Or how a UNION seems much more corrupt and greedy than an average union worker? Why is that?