What's So Bad About George W. Bush?

All You Villains, Hear My Call!

from JoeUser Forums
Assume, for the sake of argument (heh), that I am a reasonable man. Assume that I am a reasonable man who--no-one knows why or how--holds an unreasonable opinion: that George W. Bush is, on balance, a good President.

So here's my question for all you Bush-haters (and/or rational moderate sensible people) out there: if you were given the opportunity to present a single argument, a single concrete fact or line of reasoning, to change my mind on this, what would you choose? What evidence or logic would you employ to support your position?

That is, what is the Single Most Important Consideration, in your catalog of reasons to hate Bush? What is the one you would use, if you could only use one, to convert others to your way of thinking?

Bonus follow-up question: what piece of evidence or line of reasoning would change your own mind?

Please: No laundry lists of complaints, no unsourced quotes or references, and no factual statements without supporting evidence.

Ready?

Go!
politics
38,785 views 113 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top
The reason I hate his policies - They are not making life better for the vast majority of Americans!
Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top
His scientific policies are the most prevalent things I disagree with.
Siege of Centauri
Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top
Thousands of Americans have died in a war fought for no factual reason. You provide the facts for why we are fighting the war that justies the loss of American life!!!!!!
Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top
His fiscal policies are a disaster. The debt and the interest it will require will mortgage the future of our country. There is no reason given the fact we are in a recovery to be having an annual deficit of $675 Billion. He has no plan or intent to balance the budget and begin paying down the debt.
Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top

Thousands of Americans have died in a war fought for no factual reason. You provide the facts for why we are fighting the war that justies the loss of American life!!!!!!


Sir.... I do understand how you feel. And you have a right to your opinions. However please try to use correct facts. American losses are *under* 2000. About 1500 to be a little more exact.
Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top
It's so hard to avoid a laundry list sometimes....Seriously though, I have many reasons for disliking Bush but my number one/two are the horrific and unnecessary war he has gotton us in to and his destruction of the international respect, if not good will, the US used to enjoy. Thanks for this article though. It's nice to hear an honest call for honest opinions. What prompted your writing it? And, in response, what's your single, rational reason for liking the man?
Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top
drmiler

Lets be totally factual about Iraq

1450 dead, 10,000 combat injuries, 15,000 non-combat injuries and we will have committed $300 billion of our tax dollars if Congress approves the $82 Billion supplemental Bush just requested.
Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top
My biggest complaints with George W. Bush are the No Child Left Behind Act and the US Patriot Act. He is a president who has, according to many sources I have read (although I never actually heard the piece) stated that the country would be better as a dictatorship as long as he were the dictator. He also has a long legacy of disrespect for the Constitution, especially as regards personal freedoms, and he has taken an issue that belongs under state control (education) and federalized it, greatly limiting states' powers. All while CLAIMING to be a "small government" advocate.
Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top
Wow, Gideon, nice to see the Libertarian's come out swinging! (Not that they don't usually. It's usually the Green's who come out hugging.)
Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top
drmiler

Lets be totally factual about Iraq

1450 dead, 10,000 combat injuries, 15,000 non-combat injuries and we will have committed $300 billion of our tax dollars if Congress approves the $82 Billion supplemental Bush just requested.


Oh ye of little or no understanding. Stay with the program. The man said and I quote

Thousands of Americans have died

Which is incorrect so I gave him facts! Nobody said a thing about wounded or otherwise, did they? Of course except for you.
Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top
he and his associates have convinced themselves that ends justify means.
Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top
drmiler

Just thought you wanted to be complete. Don't you care about the 25,000 injured or the 300 billion of our tax dollars?
Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top
Hrm.

COL Gene said:

The reason I hate his policies - They are not making life better for the vast majority of Americans!

Okay, fine, but is there a specific concrete example here? Anywhere?

enigmagnetic and Myrrander said:

His scientific policies are the most prevalent things I disagree with.

and

I don't like his environmental policies and his ignoring scientific facts.

respectively.

Do either of you have a specific example in mind? Anything concrete and factual, to support your claim that your opinion is correct? Something that might actually convince me?

gman said:

Thousands of Americans have died in a war fought for no factual reason. You provide the facts for why we are fighting the war that justies the loss of American life!!!!!!

Um, no. I'm not here to convince you of anything. This was your big chance to convince me. And, I'm sorry to say, you blew it.

COL Gene added:

His fiscal policies are a disaster. The debt and the interest it will require will mortgage the future of our country. There is no reason given the fact we are in a recovery to be having an annual deficit of $675 Billion. He has no plan or intent to balance the budget and begin paying down the debt.

But again, failed to include any factual support for his factual statements.

Based on these early replies, I have to say that the idea of me changing my mind is ridiculous. But all options are still on the table.
Reply #15 from JoeUser Forums Top
Well, here's my proof. I don't have links but they'd be easy to find. The US government has finally acknowledged that every reason given for going into Iraq, (ties to Al Quaida, WMD's, etc.) has been proven false. Throw into that countless dead Iraqui civilians, a lot of American deaths and casualties, and a country in chaos without an exit strategy for us and I think that's cesure in itself. As to my other point, post 9-11 the US was held in a state of grace as far as the world was concerned. Nearly everyone supported us, hurt for us, wanted to help us. In a few short years Bush has created havoc with that good will, and with our long held international respect. Just look at how many American travelers are putting canadian flags on their back packs even in Western Europe. The world thinks we are cocky, violent, arogant, pre-emptive unilaterists, and Bush has done nothing but encourage this opinion.
Reply #16 from JoeUser Forums Top
As to scientific policies he says that global warming is junk science, and discourages teaching the use of condoms and other birth control in school's. Environmentally, he calls a policy that pollutes and favors big corporations the "Clean Skies Act", encourages oil drilling in the Alaskan wilderness and, again, backs the US out of the Kyoto protocol, ignoring the dangers of global warming. He has also pulled us out of Clinton's world wide plan to end nuclear armament and building, therefore encouraging other countries to do the same, knowing full well that nuclear war would be an environmental catastrophe.
Reply #17 from JoeUser Forums Top
On the other hand,

Sarah Stoeckl said:

Seriously though, I have many reasons for disliking Bush but my number one/two are the horrific and unnecessary war he has gotton us in to and his destruction of the international respect, if not good will, the US used to enjoy. Thanks for this article though. It's nice to hear an honest call for honest opinions. What prompted your writing it? And, in response, what's your single, rational reason for liking the man?

Which is actually a pretty neat answer. Thanks, Sarah! I'd like to know more about your the evidence and line of reasoning that led you to the conclusion that the war is unnecessary, though.

I wrote this article because even though I'm pretty sure I'm right, and even though I prefer to hang out with people who agree with me, who knows? I could be completely wrong. Maybe there's an important fact or principle that I'm overlooking (or wilfully ignoring).

Sometimes it's good to get out of the rut, approach the opposition, and make some time to have your mind changed. So far, though, I have to say the experiment isn't going so well. Yours is the first bright spot in a relatively discouraging set of replies.

Finally, I learned to stop worrying and love W. after spending a month or so listening to NPR's coverage of the run-up to the Iraq war. Before that, I was pretty much apathetically apolitical. During the winter of 2002, though, I went back and forth on a weekly basis: Iraq war good, Iraq war bad, good, bad, etc. When the dust finally settled in my mind, I realized that I don't agree with you: I believe the war was necessary. As to my factual reasons for this belief, I'll show you mine if you show me yours
Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top
Beyond what I wrote a minute ago, and this runs to opinion not fact, I think a policy of unilateralism and pre-emption is the wrong way to go in this every-shrinking world we live on. I don't believe Saddam Hussein was a threat to us and no matter what Bush says now I don't think the bad things he did justify our loss of soldiers, nor do I think that's why we went to war. I think the Bushies and the neo-cons believe the world would be perfect if everyone would just shut up and do it their way, now, and I think that's a frightening attitude for an American president to hold. Proof? It's in front of everyone's eyes. The rest is just opinion and I'll fight for mine to the death if I have to.
Reply #19 from JoeUser Forums Top
Most of the "reasons" given here are pretty pathetic. You still have the one's complaining how bad life is for average Americans which is total bs. Home sales are at record levels, the economy is growing, and most people have a job. These facts are ignored and then they start complaining about deficits.


I think the Bushies and the neo-cons believe the world would be perfect if everyone would just shut up and do it their way,


As opposed to the liberal belief that if we leave the world alone everyone will hug each other and play nice.
Reply #20 from JoeUser Forums Top
Bush pressured the EPA to declare the air in Manhatten safe after 9/11 even though it wasn't.

Bush has advocated restricting stem cell research.

Bush officials have repressed evidence of antibiotic resistant "superbugs" in hog farms and other agricultural endeavors.

Bush has cut funding for the NSF and the EPA.

Bush refuses to acknowledge global warming.

Bush has put corporate interests above scientific evidence time and again.

Here's a link for you.

Link
Reply #21 from JoeUser Forums Top
drmiler

Just thought you wanted to be complete. Don't you care about the 25,000 injured or the 300 billion of our tax dollars?


American fighting personel, YES! tax dollars, NO!
Reply #22 from JoeUser Forums Top
As to scientific policies he says that global warming is junk science,


Get a grip! Him and over HALF the scientific comunity think the same thing.
Reply #23 from JoeUser Forums Top
Bush has advocated restricting stem cell research


And just how has he restricted stem cell research? Especially since he has ear-marked so many funds for it.
Reply #24 from JoeUser Forums Top
He uses a listening earpiece to get by when he has to face questions. You'll debate that I'm sure but if you and I were in a debate and I was talking then suddenly WHISPERED 'let me finish' to no one present while you weren't even talking to necessitate me saying 'let me finish' you'd know I was speaking to someone else hence the bulge oh his jacket. You know you'd say Kerry was doing it too if he WHISPERED 'let me finish' when Bush was dead silent. You know it.
He sends men off to war while having avoided combat himself. Again you'll debate it but he did in fact leave his duties to help on that compaign, he did in fact leave his duties in the national guard to the point where people don't recall him ever being around. If Bush served one minute in a combat role my opinion of him would be considerably different, but not too considerably. Ha.
He's a known drunk. Or was. He was a known coke user. He used pot. But hell, don't we all?
He treats the US public as if they were total idiot morons who don't know any better.
He lies. That's not debatable. And repeating a lie is still a lie. Yellowcake from Africa. Lie. Iraq's WMD. Lie. Iraqi drones hitting the coast of the US with Chemwarfare. Lie.
He, a war evader, invited armed men, in a volatile hostile region, to attack his own troops. In the real world that's called High Treason. Not to you though I suspect. It was a simple beating-the-chest forgivable ignorable quips we all make. "Bring em on!".
He said either we're with the US or with the terrorists, then turns around and let's the US negotiate with the liberty-loving 'insurgents' in Iraq. Translation: "Either you are with us, or you are with the evildoing people we will negotiate with if they manage to kill enough of our men".
The list goes on.
Reply #25 from JoeUser Forums Top
"tax dollars, NO!"
What I said about him treating the US public as if they were drones..