Democrats' Doomsayers & Premature Rumors Of Dems' Demise

It's Deja Vu All Over Again

“By every test we have...this is as surely a liberal epoch as the late 19th Century was a conservative one.”--presidential scholar James MacGregor Burns

"He has wrecked his party for a long time to come and is not even likely to control the wreckage." --James Reston, New York Times

the quotes above refer to the presidential election of 1964  in which republican candidate, barry goldwater,  and his party were crushed by lydon b. johnson and the democrats. 

only 40 years ago, democrats and more than a few republicans concluded  the fat lady had finished singing, the curtain had come down and the time had come to turn off the lights:  the grand old party was over.

 

on this 1964 presidential election map, red indicates votes for democrat lyndon b. johnson and blue represents votes for barry goldwater, the republican candidate

political observers and pundits from all sides conducted their autopsies and proclaimed the cause of death was obvious: one of the most severe cases of terminal 'kookism' ever. 

then, as now, the losing party was the beneficiary of unsolicited advice--however well-intended--from all sides (including from within), exhortations from the prophets of doom and reprisal, the gist of which was 'cut your ties with the kooks, swim outta the backwaters of extremism and float happily with the rest of us with the current safely in midstream.'

most of  those dispensing their rhetoric and wisdom were so blinded by their own inner vision,  they couldn't see the roiling eddies just down mainstream nor did they have a clue about the treacherous flood already gathering just around the next bend.

to those who now are now franticly flailing around in hope of grasping anything moderate to which they can cling and to  those 'conservatives' --and i use the term at great risk of literal accuracy--who urge them further into the deep waters of ideologic confusion in which they themselves are foundering, i ask:  are you so desperate you'd willingly welcome another 'new nixon' ?   

making that deal with the devil profited the republican party by gaining for them the country at the price of their soul. (it's no small irony, they couldnt have done it without goldwater's kooks--the little old ladies in tennis shoes who'd been pressed into service doing mailings, knocking on doors as well as running for-and winning--obscure local offices.) 

nixon's southern strategy--devised by none other than strom thurmond , in return for promises of less than vigorous enforcement of federal civil rights statutes in the south--is a perfect example of the kind of systemic corruption which can so easily fill an ideologic vacuum and infect the wounds of a political party in disarray.

it wasn't the first step--but perhaps the longest one--in the journey that has taken republicans from honest conservatism to where they are today.  yes, they can feel triumphant at the moment.  lots of healthy-looking people who seem to have the world on a string are only an appointment away from discovering they have only a little time left to live. 

as none other than pat buchanan pointed out:

For upon what do conservatives any longer agree? They both supported and opposed expanding NATO and intervening in Bosnia. They are divided on whether the NAFTA and GATT trade deals are good for America. They disagree on immigration and term limits. On abortion, the heart of the Republican Party is strongly pro-life; Goldwater was laissez-faire. Social and cultural conservatives hold that a society that legitimates the homosexual lifestyle is neither moral nor healthy. Goldwater came to favor gays in the military.

rumors of the democrats' demise are almost certainly premature as long as they themselves refuse to buy into them and keep remembering self-destruction is only republican advice away. 

5,870 views 19 replies
Reply #1 Top
Hey Kingbee, finally a post on which we can agree!!

I too kind of laugh when I read or hear about the Democrat party being on the ropes. I don't have the quotes to post as you did here, but I remember many Democrats singing the Republican's Swan Song when Prs. Carter was elected. The Dems had the White House, and Congress, so they figured the Republican party would fade into irrelevance. The same seemed to occur when the Dems had the Executive and Legislative branches during the Clinton administration also. Until, of course, the people ended up giving the Legislative Branch to the Republicans.

To tell you the truth though, I wouldn't want to see either party gain a monopoly of power, that kind of flies in the face of the whole "Balance of Power" thing.
Reply #2 Top
Gulp....... gag........ cough cough.. I too agree.. gasp...
Reply #3 Top
I must say I agree with you too, Kingbee. It's only been two elections and both were won (by the same person) by slim margins. If this pattern keeps up for the next three or four presidential elections, and Congress becomes filled with more and more Republicans, then I'd say the Ass Party is dead. But not yet.
Reply #4 Top
Make that 4 who agree.

End zone dances are stupid in both the NFL & politics. There are many specific issues on which I disagree with the prevailing conservative mantra. The notion that the Republican Party is a monolithic, unthinking bloc that has been Roved to sleep is just so much crap. On the other hand, the "love" for Clinton was a mile wide and an inch deep - more people voted for someone else than voted for him in both elections. We live in interesting times.

Cheers,
Daiwa
Reply #5 Top

I wish I could agree.  However, I see a big difference between 64 and 04.  The primary one is that Johnson was not vulnerable.  The sympathy factor for JFK and all.  And very few Repubs 'hated' Johnson.

And given all of that, Kerry still lost.

I will agree that democrats will never take repub advice, that is why they give it.  When you reveal the winning play and know the other team will not buy it, then you have already achieved a psych win.

Way to go Libs.  You just got psyched out.

Reply #6 Top
Kingbee: Which party controlled the senate in 1964? Which party controlled the house in 1964? Which party controlled the judiciary in 1964?
Reply #7 Top
Kingbee: Which party controlled the senate in 1964? Which party controlled the house in 1964? Which party controlled the judiciary in 1964?


The answer to the first two would be the Democrats. I would also have to say the Democrats controlled the judiciary since before Eisenhower, the Democrats controlled the White House for 20 years. Not sure what your point was though.
Reply #8 Top
Hee hee. Silly (fellow) Democrats, the Repubs tell us we're collapsing because 'the whackos have hijacked the party.' Apparently, we can't control our own party anymore and will only elect far-left nuts. I would just like to point out that Republicans aren't fully accepting of their moderates either; McCain was shunned for the farther right Bush, for example. Although people seem to ignore people like Ann Coulter more than they ignore Michael Moore. I still don't think we're collapsing though.
Reply #9 Top
So let me get this straight: Kerry loses one election 51-48 in the popular vote, 286-251* (should be 286-252, but some elector in Minnesota voted for Edwards), and all of the sudden, the Democratic Party is going to disappear? I'm pretty sure they've been through worse (Dukakis?, Mondale?, McGovern?).

Please don't make me vomit
Reply #10 Top
If all of these pundits were right, the Liberal Party in Canada would be a third party, and the NDP would be governing or opposition. Maybe I should check with Paul Martin or Jack Layton on that one?
Reply #11 Top

finally a post on which we can agree!!

there've been others and hopefully there'll be more. 

I wouldn't want to see either party gain a monopoly of power, that kind of flies in the face of the whole "Balance of Power" thing.

see?  happened almost immediately.  i really wasnt focusing on that aspect but i'm in complete agreement with you.  more specifically, when the executive and legislative branches are overwhelmingly in control of one party, fiscal prudence vaporizes. 

Reply #12 Top
Gulp....... gag........ cough cough.. I too agree.. gasp...
awwww i didnt mean to put you thru any changes mm.
Reply #13 Top

. If this pattern keeps up for the next three or four presidential elections, and Congress becomes filled with more and more Republicans, then I'd say the Ass Party is dead. But not yet.

this is nothing compared to what the republicans hadda deal with in the early 30s. 

Reply #14 Top

We live in interesting times


how does that purported old chinese curse go again?     (i cant recall times that weren't...those few years that i recall as seeming somewhat less than that were perhaps even moreso when seen in the rearview mirror)

Reply #15 Top

However, I see a big difference between 64 and 04. The primary one is that Johnson was not vulnerable.


it didnt matter who was running against goldwater because the public--despite changing demographics and perceptions that should have worked to his favor--was largely persuaded he was an dangerous extremist.  even republicans bought into it.  all except them rabid, reactionary, reds-under-our-beds railsplitter lil ol ladies in tennis shoes from orange country, ca. 

 

I will agree that democrats will never take repub advice, that is why they give it. When you reveal the winning play and know the other team will not buy it, then you have already achieved a psych win.
Way to go Libs. You just got psyched out.


i dont know anyone's revealing any winning play; if so, i've yet to see it. 

although i may not have been clear enough, my point wasnt merely that the democrats are still breathing normally, but that those who decry the left's kooks and extremists and claim the only chance the democrats have of ever being taken seriously again requires a shift to the right are either ignorant of their own party's recent history or deliberately trying to bamboozle the fuck outta their opponents. 

while it's sorta true the republicans won in 68 in part due to nixon rebirthing himself as a moderate, it was them same kooks who were blamed for destroying the party who carried him in on their shoulders.  unfortunately for the country, he proved to be the same ol china lobby shill of an opportunist he'd always been..only in a better suit

Reply #16 Top

Which party controlled the senate in 1964? Which party controlled the house in 1964? Which party controlled the judiciary in 1964?

87th congress:  senate had 64 democrats 36 republicans  house had 263 democrats, 174 republicans
88th congress:  senate had 66 democrats 34 republicans  house had 259 democrats, 176 republicans
89th congress:  senate had 68 democrats 32 republicans  house had 295 democrats, 140 republicans

the 89th congress was sworn in in 1965.  

im not sure what you mean by 'controlled the judiciary'.  the makeup of the surpreme court in 64 and 65 (one would hope they werent partisan) was:   warren (eisenhower), black (roosevelt), douglass (roosevelt), clark (truman), harlan (eisenhower), brennan (eisenhower), stewart (eisenhower), white (kennedy), goldberg (kennedy) 

if you were asking whether a majority had been appointed by democrat or republican presidents, the count was obviously 5 by roosevelt, truman and kennedy; 4 by eisenhower.

Reply #17 Top

Not sure what your point was though

nor am i

Reply #18 Top
Apparently, we can't control our own party anymore and will only elect far-left nuts. I would just like to point out that Republicans aren't fully accepting of their moderates


while there are still a few old-time republican moderates, those who were formerly considered the extremist kooks responsible for bringing the party to its knees in 64 were--by the late 70s--joined by former southern democrats who opposed their party's civil rights programs, former northeastern 2nd/3rd generation catholic democrats, members of the growing evangelical/fundamentalist christian community and former populist western democrat cold warriors.  none of these groups on its own would be considered representative of  moderate american views.  only the goldwater core group has any valid claim to holding purely conservative philosophy (which i believe most republicans today would consider at least left of center).
Reply #19 Top

Reply #14 By: kingbee - 1/31/2005 4:42:11 AM
We live in interesting times


how does that purported old chinese curse go again? (i cant recall times that weren't...those few years that i recall as seeming somewhat less than that were perhaps even moreso when seen in the rearview mirror)


The curse goes: May you live in interesting times.