Can the Democrats save themselves?

Or will the kooks drive them to become another Whig party?

http://www.instapundit.com

Glenn Reynolds had a very interesting discussion with regards to how the Democrats should deal with their kooks:

You rightly point out that we liberals must do our best to shout down, disassociate ourselves, do everything we can to make ourselves no longer the party of Michael Moore, Howard Zinn, Noam Chomsky, et al.

And as you noted, the Right does do a better job of quieting its 'idiotarians'. The only problem is, they essentially do it with the "bribes and promises" approach. Jerry Falwell, even when muzzled, knows that to some degree he and the people he represents will get a hearing from the White House and congress, the American seats of power.

On the left, we are a minority in all branches of government. How can we cast off the extremists if we have nothing to offer to placate them, nothing to drive them away with? It makes it harder to easily dismiss them, and as we get drawn into a serious debate with them (which we'd handily win), the Republicans will simply say, "Look, the Democrats can't even stop their circular firing squad, how can they run the country?" and we'll lose more seats in Congress.

I'm with the College Dems at my school, and the reactionary extremism is so thick you could cut it with a knife. What's the solution for people like me? What *can* we do? Casting out the extremists seems an awful lot like putting salt on a bird's tail.

You've got a big pulpit. Help show us Dems how to make a party that's sane, but doesn't believe that America is a Christian nation or homosexuality is a sin or that all the poor are poor because they deserve it.

Well, I don't believe any of those three things -- I don't even think this is a "pulpit!" -- but I confess that I don't know how to save the Dems. I think that the "silent majority" -- those genuine moderate Democrats/Liberals that I keep hearing about, but don't hear a lot from on the national stage -- needs to realize the damage that the kooks do -- as the Republicans figured out -- and quit regarding extremism as evidence of "commitment" or "passion." I tried to sketch something like that alternate approach here, but though it's not hard to imagine, I think it would be hard for the Democrats to do.

I do think, though, that many people (me included) would cheer the Democrats for trying to make those changes, and while there might be a little bit of sniping from Republicans, that sniping would actually help the Democrats by calling attention to what was going on.

The alternative is for the Democratic party to get smaller as it gets angrier, and angrier as it gets smaller, until it just doesn't matter anymore. At some point the Republican Party will then likely split into a social-conservative wing and a libertarian wing, and I can join the latter, I guess. I'm not ready to call the Democrats the new Whigs, but it's not impossible for me to imagine.

The question is, will the Democrats be willing to do to Ted Kennedy, for his remarks on the war, what Republicans did to Trent Lott, for his remarks on Strom Thurmond and the 1948 election?

 

I agree. The Democrats seem to have learned nothing from the election. Its outspoken elements seem loonier and loonier and that drives more people to become Republicans.  At some point, the Republican party will end up splitting up and you'll have the Social Conservative party and a Libertarian Republican party or something.  I too would be in the latter.

14,609 views 36 replies
Reply #1 Top
I'm not conservative nor am I a democrat

However I would like to point some things out.


First of all the Whigs was like the First Republican Party. Its ironic you should correlate that with the crippled democratic party. I understand the point though.

Second, the Democrats are truely in trouble. Most of them think that the rest of the country is just completely idiotic (or they are just plain poor). Maybe if they listened to the other side's arguments instead of throwing up their hands in exasperation, maybe, just maybe, they would get respected as a party. ONE EXAMPLE IS ABORTION. This i just one example of the many. They think that just because science lets them get rid of babies, that they have a right to do so. Physics tells me that if I shoots a gun at a person, chances are, they will die. Doenst mean that its right. Then they make up some baloney about incest and rape. We can make abortion legal in those specific cases, but lets face it. Most abortions are from teen pregnancies in inner ciiy areas. By telling kids that they have a "way out", they take abstinence and safe sex as a joke. This is why I cannot call myself a democrat.

Third, 87% of the country is christian, whether it be catholic or protestant. The founding fathers wanted this nation as a christian nation. The documents prove so. Excluding the cities, this country has a very solid christian backbone.

Fourth, why would the Republican party split if they want majority? That is just completely against all logic. Lets say that republicans took 85% of all the republicans now, and the Libertarian version 2.0 took the 15%. Republicans would now be equal or minorities to the Democrats. HIGHLY HIGHLY doubtful.
Reply #2 Top
I often think of going Independent because of the reasons you stated, as I consider myself one of those moderate Democrats/liberals you mentioned. But, the Democrats have views closer to mine than any other party. And I stick by my views. I don't care how many whacko lefties there are, I am me, these are my opinions, and the Democrats are the ones who share those views.
Reply #3 Top
Quite the opposite, I think the republican revolution has reached its peak and is on the decline. Their atrocious handling of the war in iraq, the mounting death toll, and the continued arrogance are doing nothing but drive people away from their party. I consider myself a moderate republican, but seeing endless self bloviating spewing out of the mouths of fellow republicans is frankly repulsive.

Now for some advice to you Draginol. Anyone running a business shouldn't post public political opinions. Its only going to cost you big in sales. Those liberals have credit cards, just like the moderates, its only logical they will take their money elsewhere. You don't see political signs on a McDonalds, or a CompUSA, or a any other business do you? You don't see Bill Gates out on blog sites telling people that liberals are morons, do you? The average consumer can't tell you the political leanings of most all companies, and their CEOs. Theres a reason for this, and the reason is, its bad business. Think about that next time you post patronizing and insulting blogs about people you disagree with politcally. Remember, this is coming from a Moderate Conservative, before you even think about labeling me a bleeding heart liberal. You'd figure someone that proclaims themself to be "All Knowing" would have figured this out by now.
Reply #4 Top
Noam Chomsky is a genius.

And of course, now I'll go off and kill myself like the conservatives want.

*laugh*

We aren't going to shut up unless you want to silence us. The real question is, do you have what that takes? Perhaps you do. We'll see.
Reply #5 Top
Myrrander, I am a third-generation Democrat. (Although my father liked Nixon, I think he did that just to upset me.) At the current time, there is NO DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE for President that I could endorse! If our party can't marshall my support, they are in despirate straits. (You might read my article comparing Dean to McGovern.)

I would say to you that Mahmoud Abbas in Palestine has done a better job of distancing himself from the radicals in his party than any Democratic candidate has done.

Howard Dean is the front-runner for the DNC post. This is the same Howard Dean that compared the DNC to cockroaches scurrying away from the light. He is going to unify the Democrats???

That Kerry came as close as he did shows only how weak Bush was. I think that it is safe to say that Kerry will not be a viable candidate in 2008.

Edwards has four years to try to position himself for a run.

JTurnas, you might do a Google search for some facts. Business leaders have always been at the forefront of politics. You mention McDonalds? Joan Kroc, the widow of the founder of McDonalds, contributed hundreds of millions of dollars to liberal causes before her death. Ray Kroc had made substantial contributions to conservative causes. Both were highly publicized and neither seems to have hurt McDonalds sales.

Reply #6 Top
Reply By: NJforeverPosted: Sunday, January 30, 2005I often think of going Independent because of the reasons you stated, as I consider myself one of those moderate Democrats/liberals you mentioned. But, the Democrats have views closer to mine than any other party. And I stick by my views. I don't care how many whacko lefties there are, I am me, these are my opinions, and the Democrats are the ones who share those views.


it is reasonable democrats like you that hold the future of the party in their hand... stay strong, stay reasonable and spread the word...
Reply #7 Top
Reply By: Larry KupermanPosted: Sunday, January 30, 2005Myrrander, I am a third-generation Democrat. (Although my father liked Nixon, I think he did that just to upset me.) At the current time, there is NO DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE for President that I could endorse! If our party can't marshall my support, they are in despirate straits. (You might read my article comparing Dean to McGovern.)I would say to you that Mahmoud Abbas in Palestine has done a better job of distancing himself from the radicals in his party than any Democratic candidate has done. Howard Dean is the front-runner for the DNC post. This is the same Howard Dean that compared the DNC to cockroaches scurrying away from the light. He is going to unify the Democrats???That Kerry came as close as he did shows only how weak Bush was. I think that it is safe to say that Kerry will not be a viable candidate in 2008.


hence the reason after 28 years of being a registered dem, I switched in 2004...
Reply #8 Top
Reply By: MyrranderPosted: Sunday, January 30, 2005Noam Chomsky is a genius.


We aren't going to shut up unless you want to silence us. The real question is, do you have what that takes? Perhaps you do. We'll see.


We {republicans} do not want to silence any reasonable minded democrat,,, just the lunitics in your party, which seems to have taken over.
Reply #9 Top
Draginol.... Man O man no fair giving them ammo to change.. let sleeping kennedy's lie..{pun intended}
Reply #10 Top
Some Dems continue to amaze me. Just this morning, Kerry, in yet another dismissal of good news, couldn't bring himself to say the Iraqi election was a good or historic (or any other adjective) thing. Instead, he had to say, "The election's not the real test..." Dumb.

Cheers,
Daiwa
Reply #11 Top
Kerry-"The election's not the real test..."

Does that mean Irag fails the global test?

"At some point the Republican Party will then likely split into a social-conservative wing and a libertarian wing,"

I am all far that.
Reply #12 Top
Business leaders have always been at the forefront of politics. You mention McDonalds? Joan Kroc, the widow of the founder of McDonalds, contributed hundreds of millions of dollars to liberal causes before her death. Ray Kroc had made substantial contributions to conservative causes. Both were highly publicized and neither seems to have hurt McDonalds sales.


Political contributions != gradeschool leveling insulting blogs aimed at the opposite party. Nice try though. Google is for Charlatans.

Reply #13 Top
JTurnas - I've had my blog for 3 years now. In that time, our business has more than doubled in its revenue.

But even if it wasn't doubling in size, I'll write whatever I want to write. If people are going to make purchasing decisions based on the political views of its CEO then I don't want them as customers.
Reply #14 Top
I'll write whatever I want to write. If people are going to make purchasing decisions based on the political views of its CEO then I don't want them as customers.


Political views are one thing, calling liberals names, patronizing and insulting them is another. Let me be the first *today* to tell you to grow up. Once a company begins selective arbitration of who they want as customers, its only a matter of time before that company enters a decline. I'll start the clock on Stardock right now, and lets see where you are in 24 months. Based on what i've read in your blogs, you are a classic INTJ personality and i've yet to see INTJ-CEO run a company beyond the initial growth phase successfully, they usually self destruct the company when progressing from the early stages to the middle stages.

http://keirsey.com/personality/ntij.html

Reply #15 Top
Reply By: JTurnasPosted: Sunday, January 30, 2005


Are you a Prophet>> soothsayer... predictor of the future.. cause if you are... um could ya tell me what horse is going to win in the 3rd at golden gates field next thursday?
Reply #16 Top

Political contributions != gradeschool leveling insulting blogs aimed at the opposite party. Nice try though. Google is for Charlatans

you really are loony!  Google is for charlatans?  Hello, jturnass for ork!

Reply #17 Top
The difference between the Republican kooks and Democratic kooks is following. As kooky as Pat Robertson is, he brings a following. To say the right placated their kooks by giving their voice to the highest levels is just another way to say they have made them their mainstream. After all, if they have a voice with the President, they have a voice in the highest levels of our government. The Republicans have done a good job a showing the kooks on the left are out of the mainstream of America, but in the mainstream of the Democratic party. The right has their other kooks out there that are attack dogs that the Republicans leave alone because they can be an embarrassment to Democrats. Coulter, Hannity and Limbaugh have a daily pulpit.
Reply #18 Top
Reply #14 By: JTurnas - 1/30/2005 1:18:01 PM
I'll write whatever I want to write. If people are going to make purchasing decisions based on the political views of its CEO then I don't want them as customers.


Political views are one thing, calling liberals names, patronizing and insulting them is another. Let me be the first *today* to tell you to grow up.


Then let me be the first to tell you to take a hike unless you have something meaningful to add. If not shut up.
Reply #19 Top
Political views are one thing, calling liberals names, patronizing and insulting them is another. Let me be the first *today* to tell you to grow up. Once a company begins selective arbitration of who they want as customers, its only a matter of time before that company enters a decline. I'll start the clock on Stardock right now, and lets see where you are in 24 months. Based on what i've read in your blogs, you are a classic INTJ personality and i've yet to see INTJ-CEO run a company beyond the initial growth phase successfully, they usually self destruct the company when progressing from the early stages to the middle stages.


Stardock seems to be doing well. But you're the expert at how to be a good CEO, right?
Reply #20 Top
What a laugh. Blog newbie JTurnas shows up years into JoeUser's existence to predict Stardock's decline. Stardock's been around what? 10 to 15 years? It gets bigger and more successful each year. I think JTurnas should keep his day job, whatever that is.
Reply #21 Top

Political views are one thing, calling liberals names, patronizing and insulting them is another. Let me be the first *today* to tell you to grow up. Once a company begins selective arbitration of who they want as customers, its only a matter of time before that company enters a decline. I'll start the clock on Stardock right now, and lets see where you are in 24 months. Based on what i've read in your blogs, you are a classic INTJ personality and i've yet to see INTJ-CEO run a company beyond the initial growth phase successfully, they usually self destruct the company when progressing from the early stages to the middle stages.

http://keirsey.com/personality/ntij.html


http://www.smalldog.com/PHPbb/viewforum.php?f=1

Reply #22 Top

The difference between the Republican kooks and Democratic kooks is following. As kooky as Pat Robertson is, he brings a following. To say the right placated their kooks by giving their voice to the highest levels is just another way to say they have made them their mainstream. After all, if they have a voice with the President, they have a voice in the highest levels of our government. The Republicans have done a good job a showing the kooks on the left are out of the mainstream of America, but in the mainstream of the Democratic party. The right has their other kooks out there that are attack dogs that the Republicans leave alone because they can be an embarrassment to Democrats. Coulter, Hannity and Limbaugh have a daily pulpit.


Wrong.

Reply #23 Top

The difference between the Republican kooks and Democratic kooks is following. As kooky as Pat Robertson is, he brings a following. To say the right placated their kooks by giving their voice to the highest levels is just another way to say they have made them their mainstream. After all, if they have a voice with the President, they have a voice in the highest levels of our government. The Republicans have done a good job a showing the kooks on the left are out of the mainstream of America, but in the mainstream of the Democratic party. The right has their other kooks out there that are attack dogs that the Republicans leave alone because they can be an embarrassment to Democrats. Coulter, Hannity and Limbaugh have a daily pulpit.


Wrong.

Reply #24 Top
The difference between the Republican kooks and Democratic kooks is following.


We have blood in our veins and real live guts... whereas most dems{not you njforever or you myrr} are gutless and divisionary.
Reply #25 Top
not you njforever or you myrr


Thanks for the exemption And also thanks for saying I'm one of the people who are the future of the Democratic party.