Still True Today

from JoeUser Forums
Still True today:

1) Osama Bin Laden remains free.
2) Weapons of Mass Destruction have not been found in Iraq.
3) George W. Bush has turned a record surplus into a record debt.
4) The dollar has lost 30% of its value against the Euro since 2001.
5) No comissioned officer or member of the cabinet has been convicted in the Abu Graib prision scandal.
6) 1,425 U.S. troops have died in Iraq. 10,502 have been injured.
politics
16,599 views 18 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top
Totally amazing, isn't it? So, why do people love this administration and its failures so much? I venture it's because they're hanging onto what they wish it was, thereby ignoring the FACTS right before them. And, the deceipt, and lies, conflicts of interest, and outright stupidity.

I really despise the bushie administration. And, an awful lot of their followers.
Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top
Still True Today

By: sqrrldrw
Posted: Friday, January 28, 2005 on sqrrldrw
Message Board: Politics
Still True today:2) Weapons of Mass Destruction have not been found in Iraq.



I need to ask a question. What would you call 23 highly modified MIGS that were buried in the sand? BTW the MIGS in question are "current generation" aircraft.
WindowBlinds - Free yourself of the default settings, customize your desktop.
Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top
The Soviet Union/Russia stopped developing and producing new migs a little over a decade ago. I'd hardly call them "current generation"or Weapons of Mass Destruction. I think if you replay the tape of Colin Powell at the U.N. or Bush's State of the Union circa 2003, I think that you'll find migs were never mentioned as the deadly weapons coming to destroy our homes.
Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top
Isn't it funny how many people voted for W because they felt safe, but yet the states of NY, PA, and the District of Columbia all went pro Kerry?
Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top




Reply #3 By: sqrrldrw - 1/29/2005 2:38:38 PM
The Soviet Union/Russia stopped developing and producing new migs a little over a decade ago.


Don't know your military hardware to awful well do you? These were "UPDATED" MIG 25's Try again. Next time try a google search *before* you speak. And an FYI. A decade is only 10 years. That ain't a whole lot of time.

Link


NewsMax.com has obtained exclusive photos of a buried Iraqi jet fighter being recovered by U.S. Air Force troops. The Iraqi jet, an advanced Russian MiG-25 Foxbat, was found buried in the sand after an informant tipped off U.S. troops.
Click here to see the MiG buried in the Iraqi desert.

The MiG was dug out of a massive sand dune near the Al Taqqadum airfield by U.S. Air Force recovery teams. The MiG was reportedly one of over two dozen Iraqi jets buried in the sand, like hidden treasure, waiting to be recovered at a later date.

Contrary to what some in the major media have reported, not all the jets found were from the Gulf War era.

The Russian-made MiG-25 Foxbat being recovered by U.S. Air Force troops in the photos is an advanced reconnaissance version never before seen in the West and is equipped with sophisticated electronic warfare devices.

U.S. Air Force recovery teams had to use large earth-moving equipment to uncover the MiG, which is over 70 feet long and weighs nearly 25 tons.


All photos courtesy of MSGT T. Collins, USAF

The Foxbat is known to be one of Iraq's top jet fighters. The advanced electronic reconnaissance version found by the U.S. Air Force is currently in service with the Russian air force. The MiG is capable of flying at speeds of over 2,000 miles an hour, or three times the speed of sound, and at altitudes of over 75,000 feet.

The recovery of the advanced MiG fighter is considered to be an intelligence coup by the U.S. Air Force. The Foxbat may also be equipped with advanced Russian- and French-made electronics that were sold to Iraq during the 1990s in violation of a U.N. ban on arms sales to Baghdad.

The buried aircraft at Al Taqqadum were covered in camouflage netting, sealed and, in many cases, had their wings removed before being buried more than 10 feet beneath the Iraqi desert.


The discovery of the buried Iraqi jet fighters illustrates the problem faced by U.S. inspection teams searching Iraq for weapons of mass destruction. Iraq is larger in size than California, and the massive deserts south and west of Baghdad were used by Saddam Hussein to hide weapons during the first Gulf war.

U.S. intelligence sources have already uncovered several mass grave burial sites in the open deserts with an estimated 10,000 dead hidden there. In addition, Iraq previously hid SCUD missiles, chemical weapons and biological warheads by burying them under the desert sand. U.N. inspection teams found the weapons in the early 1990s after detailed information of the exact locations was obtained.

Top U.S. weapons inspector Dr. David Kay is known to favor human intelligence as the primary means to find Iraq's hidden treasure trove of weapons and secrets.

While there are rumors of Iraqi chemical and biological weapons being shipped to nearby Syria, the weapons may very well still remain inside Iraq buried under the vast desert wastelands.

Some critics of the Bush administration have claimed that the inability of U.S. forces to uncover weapons of mass destruction is proof that the president misled the nation into the war with Iraq. However, in recent days the critics have fallen silent as word quietly leaked from Iraq that major discoveries have already been made and are now being documented completely. Bush administration officials are keeping any such discoveries secret for the moment.
Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top
Care to respond to the rest of my comment about the actual WMDs or how they've stopped looking for them? Or are you just neocon jingo that'll buy anything the administration dolls out?
Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top
dabe -

Talk about "hanging on" & wishful thinking - come on, stop insulting people. It's the best way I know to get ignored. You have an argument, bring it, but just bitchin' & moanin' doesn't cut it. You can do better.

Cheers,
Daiwa
Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top

Reply #6 By: sqrrldrw - 1/29/2005 8:48:42 PM
Care to respond to the rest of my comment about the actual WMDs or how they've stopped looking for them? Or are you just neocon jingo that'll buy anything the administration dolls out?


Care to read the highlighted section of the second half of my response? Most people would consider what was found to be at the very least a delivery vehicle for WMD's. And I don't know where your getting *your* info from but they have NOT stopped looking. try again LLL.
Reply #9 from PolMach Forums Top
Care to read the highlighted section of the second half of my response? Most people would consider what was found to be at the very least a delivery vehicle for WMD's


What you highlighted doesn't say anything about WMDs.
Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top
Daiwa,

I've seen a number of your postings on here and from what I can tell you say exactly one thing: "stop bitching and shut up." You use the excuse that others are "hanging on" or just not making their points. Guess what? You're a moron. Dissent is healthy in a democracy. When you decide to participate in conversations instead of trying to squashing them, let the rest of us know.

drmiler
Here are the links on the search for WMD's ending. I'll give you more if you'd like. Next time google:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1389370,00.html?gusrc=rss
http://www.sptimes.com/2005/01/14/Opinion/Weapons_hunt_is_over_.shtml
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/thenation/20050113/cm_thenation/32123_1
http://newstandardnews.net/content/?action=show_item&itemid=1390


And in case you're going to start on the conspiracy theory that they were smuggled out, here's some articles disputing that:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/16/iraq/main643989.shtml
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=421107&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312

Go ahead and scream it's the liberal media. Even Bushie knew there weren't any weapons there. Now even his own people can't find them. Go bury your head in the sand.
Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top
Still true today:

1.) Saddam Hussein has been captured and awaits trial.
2.) Saddam's sons and Senior Regime Leaders have been caught. The leaders await trial and his vicious sons have been killed.
3.) Schools, hospitals, orpahnages, electric companies, fuel companies, sanitation faciliteis, law enforcement personnel, Civil Defense Military and stock markets.... are all stocked, maintained, online, at work, at work and in training, available for international trading.
4.) High level terrorists have been captured and information is being gleaned from them.
5.) Iraqi people now live in an environment of oppertunity and freedom unimagined under Saddam's rule
6.) Iraq is a soverign nation
7.) Democratic elections are CURRENTLY underway for the good of the people
would you like me to go on....

oh wait....
8.) Evidence of recent production capabilites of WMD's HAS bee found( now believed to be buried and or located in syria)
( While in Iraq my unit alone seized and turned in over 25 RPG rounds tagged Red-(for blister agent) and Green-(for biological agents),
14 mortar rounds marked the same. over 500 lbs of "chemical agent catalyists" for WMD's in barrels located in abandoned Arms Bunkers.)

Close your eyes, take a deep breath, count to 10...........exhale..open your eyes.....AND APPRECIATE ALL THE GOOD WE ARE DOING FOR THE PEOPLE OF IRAQ
Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top

Reply #10 By: sqrrldrw - 1/30/2005 1:53:08 AM
Daiwa,

I've seen a number of your postings on here and from what I can tell you say exactly one thing: "stop bitching and shut up." You use the excuse that others are "hanging on" or just not making their points. Guess what? You're a moron. Dissent is healthy in a democracy. When you decide to participate in conversations instead of trying to squashing them, let the rest of us know.

drmiler
Here are the links on the search for WMD's ending. I'll give you more if you'd like. Next time google:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1389370,00.html?gusrc=rss
http://www.sptimes.com/2005/01/14/Opinion/Weapons_hunt_is_over_.shtml
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/thenation/20050113/cm_thenation/32123_1
http://newstandardnews.net/content/?action=show_item&itemid=1390


The first and last ain't bad. Next time don't use op/ed (yahoo article is an opinion) or letters to editor (sptimes guy is even a journalist) to validate your point. Oh and while your at it. Why don't you *try* to refute dysmas post, if you can.
Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top
Talk about "hanging on" & wishful thinking - come on, stop insulting people. It's the best way I know to get ignored. You have an argument, bring it, but just bitchin' & moanin' doesn't cut it. You can do better.


Actually, what I posted is actually what I believe. I'm a skeptic, at heart, over this whole Iraqi mess, even though I do try to be optimistic and do hope for Iraq's success. But, I don't understand your "hanging on and wishful thinking" comment at all. And, I find it interesting (to say the least) that you make no such comments to the jingoists here who offer nothing but insult after insult to lefties, as well as their unsubstantiated claims of all the rosy and glowing Iraq successes that they describe.
Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top
"so, why do people love this administration and its failures so much? " Alison Watkins

I didn't know people loved failures. What led you to the conclusion that people loved failures?
Reply #15 from JoeUser Forums Top
dabe -
I venture it's because they're hanging onto what they wish it was

I was referring to your words accusing those who disagree with you. You, unlike sqrrldrw, know from our many prior exchanges that I respect your passion and willingness to engage in debate, and you know that I meant only to suggest that the insults ("I really despise the bushie administration. And, an awful lot of their followers.") just get in the way of meaningful dialog. You don't need them to make your points.

sqrrldrw -

I'll leave it to others to decide who's the moron. And I'll add one more item to your list:

7) Roughly 60% of eligible Iraqis showed up to vote January 30th, despite widespread threats of violence, Zarqawi's declaration of "all-out war" on the election and the last-minute designation of many polling places.

Cheers,
Daiwa
Reply #16 from JoeUser Forums Top
My post cannot be disputed becuase they are all facts. It is sad to see some people spewing out only one side of the story. The truth is that yes there are problems in Iraq and yes the situation is serious. But the other side of the coin is that there are MUCH more good things that have happened, are happening, and will happen in Iraq. Its simply not fair to focus on one side of the issue to "prove" how bad things are when they are not actually that bad.

The origional post is also full of facts, except perhaps the WMD one, ( no we havent found WMDs on a massive scale but we HAVE found them and we KNOW Saddam had them- he used them on his own people!)

By sqrrldrwPosted Friday, January 28, 2005 on sqrrldrwDiscussion: PoliticsStill True today:1) Osama Bin Laden remains free.2) Weapons of Mass Destruction have not been found in Iraq.3) George W. Bush has turned a record surplus into a record debt.4) The dollar has lost 30% of its value against the Euro since 2001.5) No comissioned officer or member of the cabinet has been convicted in the Abu Graib prision scandal.6) 1,425 U.S. troops have died in Iraq. 10,502 have been injured

things need to be taken into consideration.
1) Osama may still be free but how much pratical influence does he have on terrorism? Not much, his group has splintered. He is now but a figurehead whos merely threatens to do things.
2) WMDs have been found
3) The record surplus has been turned into a deficit....OK in case you have forgotten we are at war. A new style of war at that and NO war is cheap. How much did we spend on WW1 and 2, Vietnam, Korea, Desert Storm.....in money and lives....would you say it wasnt worth the cost?
4)No comissioned officer or member of the cabinet has been convicted in the Abu Graib prision scandal.........Yes that is true and it is sad but we do not know all of the details, I would say that a Comissioned Officer should be tried for the "abuse'-(gimme a break) but a "member of the cabinet" are you kidding me. Who? Sec of Defense, Vice President, the President?....things are not micromanaged over there, they cant be.
5) 1,425 U.S. troops have died in Iraq. 10,502 have been injured........and counting. Its sad, I know I lost a few good friends there, ANY death is sad. But they have died for a reason. You post numbers as if it is important to your logic. Much more died in other wars and much more werer injured. They died doing thier job, protecting the innocent Iraqi people, a war torn nation, and by proxy, by protecting and serving US, you and me. It was not, nor ever will be, in vain.........
wait, you would rather have no KIAs and have hundreds of thousands of innocent people, women and children, tortured, mutilated and killed under Saddam.........
I would give my life to save innocent people and you know what, if you join the Military, YOU would too. In the end, if we must pay that cost, it HAS to be worth it, and it is.

To all: would you belive that during the prisedents inauguration parade, there was a group of demonstrators holiding a sign up TO THE MARCHING TROOPS that said "No more War!!" .................Yeah, and you can say that to soldiers and still walk around thinking you support them right. Because afterall the members of our Armed Forces decided when we go to war and when we come home.
Reply #17 from PolMach Forums Top
The origional post is also full of facts, except perhaps the WMD one, ( no we havent found WMDs on a massive scale but we HAVE found them and we KNOW Saddam had them- he used them on his own people!)


More than a dozen years ago now. Is it beyond comprehension that he used whatever little he had to regain control from the possibility of a rebellion in the face of defeat in the first Gulf War? The fact that we sat by and watched him use them on his people was atrocious.
Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top


Is it beyond comprehension? ........Yes it is. If you read my first post I explain how we FOUND WMDs both the components to make them and actually inside wepons which could be fired at US forces. ( and if you dont think they were you would be crazy.)
In Iraq my unit's NBC detection equipment sounded off on more than one occasion. The results were that there were "minute" amounts of NBC agent in the area. if there were "minute" amounts that could be picked up then it was enough to harm us. Not from stockpiles from long ago but of recent ones. Ones which may have been buried or vented somehow to subtly affect us.

The fact that we sat by and watched him use them on his people was atrocious........... Yes it was. Talk about mistakes, I feel that we made a major mistake in not going "all the way" during the first Iraq War. If we did, we wouldn't be there today.