That funny I thought I was defending ones right to free speech and giving examples of the dangers when it's tread upon... there are lots of racist songs and folks who listen to them, it's thier right... I don't support the content but I support thier right to make it and listen. Is there anything not clear about that... I have heard christian songs that refer to heretics and heathens... to me that is woefully offensive... but they have the right to say it. Televagalists every sunday tell people like me we are going to hell... again very offensive to people like me... difference is I am not going to ask for them to be fired or shut down... this is America we have the 1st Amendment it's that simple... say what you want... listen to what you want... don't force others to be like you...

MorghainenCorae - I agree with SNK - take you propaganda somewhere else. You view are the ones that are clouded.

Are facts clouded... you still have not offered any Kona. Your the one spewing propoganda which by deffinition is unfounded statements to attempt to sway a populace... what you are now trying to do is again limit anothers freedom to speak is mind... Kona, I do feel love for your kind... but that love is mixed with heavy saddness... I don't wish to limit you or your freedoms in anyway... I don't want to tell you how to think or how to be... why do you keep telling me such things? Is it not equaly disgusting for people, christians specificaly, to broadcast over the air waves that non-christians (heathans as they derogitoraly put it) are going to burn in a lake of hell fire? Or that our way of life is disgusting and wrong... What makes that OK? It's not... don't come off as holier than thau when your commiting the same sin you are speaking out aginst...

First of all the proof was already given. The word "GOD" is in every item of America. Our Constitution, our money, our creed, our songs. Second of all I never said I was perfect nor do I push my beliefs on others. Thirdly I never condemned you for your beliefs. No one is better than anyone else.

Point taken... and duely noted... thank you for your clarification... I don't have a problem with god... just when people try to enforce who's is most valued... and valid. I don't mean to rage about this stuff it's just a promonant issue in the U.S.A. right now and one that scares me a lot... I only mean to help inform... not be unfair.... Peace
MorghainenCorae

Hey Essencay : Excellent point but I can definitely feel a great deal of pain in MorghainenCorae, but yeah, all the posts all of you have been contributing are greatly appreciated for the support expressed, & the differing perspectives in this increasingly socially complex but diminished Global Village we all collectively call home

Initiatedsean you seem to be a good and balanced man... thank you for being such.

Hey MorghainenCorae; Thx Dude! very kind of you to say....hey, ya know, its Artzine Sites like this that allow us to distract ourselves with creativity & sharing from the madding world outside our doors

Amen...

http://www.mecca.org/~crights/dream.html

take you propaganda somewhere else. You view are the ones that are clouded.

Why is that Kona because he doesn't agree with you? And if you want to talk propaganda why don't you leave your sermons at church and leave it off this desktop customization site where it does not belong.

"The known death toll in the dozen countries affected, which stretch from Malaysia to Tanzania, is now 142,000, with an additional 147,000 people missing, many presumed dead."

Maybe it's not about Religion, Law or Philosophy. Maybe, when someone seeks to make capital from such a tragedy, all we need is a bit of common sense and humanity to know that its wrong.

TSF - I wasn't preaching at all. Re-read post #54. I do not push my beliefs on people. Nor have I tried to in this thread. I was just pointing out the obvious.

But more to the point I have better things to do than argue with you of all people.

(Oh and case you haven't noticed we DO talk about everything here. Not ALL threads pertain to skinning.)

Go Kona & Journeyman! Tell It! & Goob.....thx for the Dr. King speech....very timely

So, for those who think that free speech has no limit. Are you saying that if I wanted I could open a pro-nazi radio station where I would say that all jews should be exterminated, that all blacks should return to slavery. You know, it's not that hard to convince a large populace, as long as you know how to play on popular themes. All you need is a frustrated and angry population and you can easily play with their frustration. Besides, how can you say you have 100% free speech already when you can't use swear words on national TV? Between haering the F word on TV and hearing hate propaganda on the radio, I'd rather deal with the former.

No I REALLY DO NOT LIKE CHRISTIANS!

See, THAT is a bigotted statement. While I disagree with the beliefs of buddhists, I have never, and WOULD NEVER say that I don't like them!

You preach about tolerance, yet your entire rant reeks of intolerance, and stereotypical generalizations of the religious right. You are in many ways as bad as those you profess to dislike.

as far as the 10 comandments goes I believe the part about no law respecting an establishment of religion fits that bill... religion DOES NOT BELONG IN PUBLIC SCHOOL...

WRONG! Read the rest of that sentence where it speaks of "...nor prohibiting the free exercise thereof". While I believe that a teacher should not use their classroom as a forum to indoctrinate children, public school students are students that are learning how to live in a democracy, and they cannot do that unless they have at least SOME of the rights of a democracy.

STUDENTS CAN freely express their religion in the schools; this is a right consistently upheld by the Supreme Court of the United States, that you and your kind attempt to repeatedly trample on and bully Christian students into silence. You are NOt a man of peace, and the hatred and bigotry you spew in your response are the ANTITHESIS of Buddhism, NOT part of its core teachings. Frankly, you are a poor representative of your faith.

Morg,

First of all, all your quotes from the founding fathers were correct, although, sadly obviously not the product of YOUR research, but of someone else's. EVERY ONE of those quotes comes stock from anti-theist websites.

What you overlook; however, is that EVERY one of the thirteen colonies was established under a RELIGIOUS charter; the Constitution was written in such a way as to not infringe on the charters of each state. It doesn't mean that individuals should be forced or coerced to a religion; in that you are right. But it DOES mean that the "free exercise" of religion should not be infringed on (I note that you only quoted HALF of that part of Amendment one; similarly, every one of your quotes is taken absent consideration of the context in which they were written; I have sincere doubts as to whether you actually KNOW the context).

You are a well read individual, I do not dispute that. Unfortunately, you appear to have confined your reading to only those authors who SUPPORT your antitheistic agenda. By doing so, you limit yourself and your intellectual potential.

Do any of you dispute that christians saying non christians are going to hell to burn on the air is not the same form of hate? Or that the same christian evagalist shows both radio and TV promote intolerance... I love the work of Dr. Martin Luther King... as I have stated. I do not like fundamentalist, evangelical christians for a simple and valid reason... they attempt to force thier will on all those around them. Dr. King did not, therefor I have the uttmost and humble respect for the man. My grandmother who guides my moral compass was also a lady who truely understood that the words of Christ were of tolerance, love, and even he was told by a simple lady "even the dogs deserve scraps from the kings table"... I have read the Bible, many times; the Koran, the Bahgvad Gita, the Torah, the Tao Te Ching, and many others... I have searched all the worlds religions and beliefs... in writing and theory, even of thier masters, the all preach love and tolerance, but in there practice most fall short. Any christian willing to be happy that I have my faith and simply don't want anothers pushed on me, my children or family is a perfectly fine and glorious human. Unfortunately very few of the founded theolgies actually promote those things anymore. They all make active attempts at imposing thier will on the world... I ask any here, how many have been killed in the name of the Christian god? And he is claimed to be the god of compassion and mercy... Maybe he is but his followers certainly tend not to be... Ancestors of mine are burried in Salem, Mass. because of christian fundamentalism gone bad. My ancestral culture was nearly erased from the planet by christian "soldiers"... I thought Christ said "Turn the other cheek..." How can one commit war in his name... I love many of the words Christ said, same with Mohammud, the buddha, etc. They are all my spiritual mentors... but I saddly find intorlorance running rampant in the ranks of thier followers... No I am not an aethist, but I have my own views... I have no issue with anyone saying what they want... words are words... you learn in Kindergarden that "sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me..." or have you forgotten such elementary lessons. You can not micro manage the world... because in doing so you will destroy the freedoms we all hold so dear... such as this one we are all involved in.
Gideon it's on... I actual read the book I quoted... I grabbed the quotes from online sites simply to make posting them easy... as I said go READ THE BOOK! Only then will YOU find out thier TRUE context... are you affraid.... sounds like it. By the way I am not talking about the original 13 colonies... I AM TALKING ABOUT THE U.S. CONSTITUTION... Possibly one of the greatist pieces of inked paper ever composed by man... In my christian town I was not allowed to distribute Buddhist literature at school but preachers could come and hand out little Bibles, I was not allowed to form a Buddhist group on campus but thier were several christian prayer groups... even more sad is the fact that this story is far from issolated... I read stories all over about this same thing. If students at school wish to pray together on thier own time (although Christ says "pray in your private place away from the eyes of others") I have no issue... When teachers post the 10 commandments that strongly leans toward propoganda. The SINGLE THING I HAVE NO TOLORANCE FOR ARE PEOPLE WHO PREACH INTOLLERANCE! BUT I STILL BELIEVE THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAY IT! Go turn on your TV on sunday and listen to a televagalist or turn on your radio and listen to Rush Limbaugh and do something different for a change... Try and put your self in the shoes of the people they rally aginst and see if for just one moment you can understand how painfull and utterly distastefull such things are... and the funny thing is how many of them turn out to be hypocrites (Rush, drugs; Baker, hookers; etc.) and I still believe they have the right to say what ever they want... PERIOD, yes I would fight and die for your rights too... would you for mine?
Christ was executed for his near rabid display of anger at what the Phariseas and come to do in the name of god... I know the same would happen to him today... in 2000 years we are no better than a time when we crucified people for thier beliefs.
Gideon you must be that guy running around and putting bibles in hotel rooms... I finaly met a Gideon... I am amazed. You made many assumptions about me... most of which I had already gone over in previous posts... even to the man KONA I believe I achieved some level of peacefull agreement with... So actualy read ALL of my post before you write... PLEASE.

Do any of you dispute that christians saying non christians are going to hell to burn on the air is not the same form of hate?

Frankly, a non-religious person will be unfazed by having some religious fanatic preach he will go to hell....[the concept/threat/admonishment is pointless].

Just like a person with no legs is not going to fret about the loss of a shoe factory...

LOL... LOL... LOL... Admin Jafo thank you for adding a duely needed dose of humor into this very tense thread... On the topic of the 1st Amendment, go to Slashdot and read the CNN artical on this very subject... this is very scary stuff indeed. As they say in the Boondock Saints " one evil we have to fear most is the indiference of good men..." If we arn not carefull we may wake up and find this freedom gone...