Newbie Graphic Designer

Looking For Some Direction

from WinCustomize Forums
Hi all,

I'm a Freshman at Belhaven College in Jackson, MS. I went into Computer Science last semester and decided that was not the route I wanted to take. So I have recently enrolled into Graphic Design in hopes that I could express my creative imagination on a very broad canvas. Anyway, I just wanted to ask for some general ideas to enlighten me on the subject and potential career opportunities, and maybe a few hints and pointers to get me started as a newbie graphic designer. My e-mail address is [email protected], or just reply to my post. Thanks alot!
requests
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Reply #1 from WinCustomize Forums Top
First you need a graphic proggy, like Photoshop Elements.
Reply #2 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Paint Shop pro is cool. There are some free image program, just search the net for them.
(or better yet, just search the forum here for them or use Google to search the site for this topic)

Also give Corel Draw a shot. It works great ith icons (so does Adobe Illistrator but that is pretty expensive)
Offworld Trading Company
Reply #3 from WinCustomize Forums Top
we will be working in quark and photoshop at school on the macintosh. I can't use the program at home, however, I have XP. But you haven't told me anything I don't already know. thanks anyway
Reply #4 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Lol, what you're asking is kinda broad there. I want to do graphic design...so enlighten me on the subject?

Anyway...how about this.

1. Don't think computers is the important part of graphic design.
2. Always start with thumbnails, whether you can draw good or not.
(make the drawings rough and the ideas fancy)
3. Don't rush to buy a Mac, or feel that it's neccessary, but learn to use it.
4. Learn Quark if you have to, learn InDesign cause you need to. It's slowly replacing Quark.
5. Don't break rules unless you know why you're breaking them.
6. Take typography as soon as you can, it's just as important as, and actually is a graphic element.
7. Don't get amused by layer styles and filters...lots of them are crap, most of them are cheesy, and no one is going to applaud you or pay you for it. Use them sparingly.
8. Learn Illustrator. Industry standard for vector and most used program in GD for printing non-correlated work. ie. billboards, posters, flyers.
9. Get your work critiqued often, by diff people, and develop thick skin. If someone tells you this is the biggest piece of crap they've ever seen, don't argue it. Someone who knows what they're talking about will be able to identify and point out what works, what doesn't, and why. But take all critiques with a grain of sand, if someone says this is awesome, someone else will till you otherwise, if it's terrible, someone will like it.
10. What WORKS is more important than what looks good.
11. Form follows function
Reply #5 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Wow Horiz0n. You could be a counsellor. That was a very succinct and to the point bullet list that also happens to be dead on the money IMHO. Especially item 6. I'm kinda "old school" in that I used a typesetting program before WSIWG was around and it pains me to see so many "professional" magazines and books with horrible layout and typesetting. I don't think they even teach the concept of kerning or leading anymore. So rivers and widows run rampant on what should be lush fields of text - Page layout, the original eye-candy!
Regards,

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Reply #6 from WinCustomize Forums Top
thank you horizon. I realize it is a broad subject, but you definately narrowed it down for me. We will also be using InDesign btw...and I have been break a few rules arleady, the instuctor doesn't appreciate that at all.. anyway, thanks again!
Reply #7 from WinCustomize Forums Top
i'm gonna thank Horizon for making some very important key points, mainly:
1. Don't think computers is the important part of graphic design.
and
5. Don't break rules unless you know why you're breaking them.
6. Take typography as soon as you can, it's just as important as, and actually is a graphic element.

graphic design is not about the computer you use or the programs you use. i was sort of taken back seeing the first reply was 'get a good program'.... so i'm going to highlight a different idea, what 'graphic design' means.

graphic design as we know it began in the 1600's with the design of books. in large part today graphic design is still about books. wether you design for print or for web, the same rules apply - the best web designers i know are good book designers. a graphic designer is concerened with arranging photography, illustration, type, and color in a way to above all things communicate information. typical jobs for graphic designers are book design, layout for magazine, newsletter, advertisements, identities such as logotype, icon, corporate image design, and product design.

it doesn't alone mean sitting in photoshop and painting. that is illustration - though a good graphic designer is also an illustrator, a photographer, and a drafter.

you can say a graphic designer is the project manager of a job, directing the photographer or illustrator to move in a direction which communicates best the message the client is trying to say.

when i started my soon-ending tenure at a design college, we didn't touch a computer for the first 2 years. you have to learn the basics of drawing and design elements before you sit on a computer and start throwing items together. it also helps emmensly to be good at drawing, sketching, and color theory is very critical. as snarf and horizon said, typography is probobly the most important thing you can use as a designer.

you can tell the difference between mice and men when you see something with the type all squashed together or gaps between letters in a word, and something where all the letters feel balanced throughout the word.

after learning how everything works and goes together, the computer does in fact become an important tool because it makes time-consuming processes very quick. however you can not let it replace your pencil and paper. begin every idea with sketches, refine them into larger drawings, then when you have the illustration or layout proper finalize it in the computer. if you start on screen, it may look great but when you print it out you'd be suprised how things just don't feel the same.

research is also an important part of design. your job is to communicate, and the best way to communicate your client's agenda is to understand your client's history and his subject. for example, if you're going to do a poster for a theater production of "The Gardner's Dog" you're going to want to know that its a farse, a fast, comical play. the costumes use bright colors. its spanish. its set in venice. there is also no dog in the play if you showed up with a dark poster of people in leather with a guy holding a pitfork with a dog next to him, you've failed your client because no one is going to know what the play is about by looking at your poster.

to make sure GD is right for you, you have to ask yourself some questions.. when someone starts describing a story to you, do you come up with ideas about how to communicate that story visually? can you take what is in your head and put it down on paper? can you read into a word's meaning to draw that word in a way which which communicates the meaning visually?

that's the gist of it.

on the computer side of it: programs i tend to favor are photoshop for photo editing and collage work, illustrator for design, and indesign to put them all together as a layout program. depending on the press, some will tell you they still prefer to receive Quark or Pagemaker files but everybody now a days is accepting indesign and i've found it far superior to quark and much easier to use. (except for line rags. but you'll find out what that means.)

for more reference, i suggest you check out the websites of Nike, MTV, Baccardi, Bennaton, Macromedia, and Adobe. it is also in your best interests to buy a book about Paul Rand. trust me.

"Good design is good Buisness" - Paul Rand
"Every art director and graphic designer in the world should kiss (as they say in Paul Rand's native Brooklyn) his ass." - George Lois, in a speech honouring Paul Rand.
Reply #8 from WinCustomize Forums Top
an after though.. are you doing an associates program or a bachelors program? i ask because i began in an associates program, switched into a much larger program, and the difference in the education is astonishing. that does not mean a 2 year associates is goign to make you a bad designer. i do know good designers who didn't even go to school for it. but it means that if you really love what you're doing and you want to be the best you can, you should do a lot of research outside of your school's program.

what i mean is, when i began at a 'chain' school, we learned color theory and some drawing then jumped right into layout. we entirely skipped over type design. so you should always be on the lookout where - if they havn't gone over something - you want to read up on it yourself. always study what other designers are doing in the field, and don't be afraid to ask around on how to do something. just keep your eyes open and work hard.
Reply #9 from WinCustomize Forums Top

graphic design as we know it began in the 1600's with the design of books.

Egyptians, just to name one bunch are gonna be really miffed about that one....

Reply #10 from WinCustomize Forums Top
The term "Graphic Design" began with the printing press. The word is more based on speed, audience, and layout than anything else. Egyptians were more like "artists" and "architects." Design is more about the use of elements than creation of them. The origins of it could be tracked back as far the the written word and cave drawings, but it wasn't until Gutenberg created the printing press that things were mass produced because of movable type. So as such the term graphic design differenciates between fine art, and applied art.
Reply #11 from WinCustomize Forums Top
i appreciate everyone's comments to my post. You have definately given me a better idea of what to expect and how to approach different situations...I also have a buddy working at a local radio station who does GD related works, and I'm thinking of becoming a work/study in our art department, as the instructor favors me so hopefully I could learn a few extra tips.. I'm glad I could bring about a good topic for you all to discuss and share your knowledge on the related topics.. I am going to a four year liberal arts college, yet still a bit undesided how I want to go about persuing this field of work.. I mean, they don't have GD degrees, so my next question would be what courses (as far as art, computers, and business) should i consider, and what kind of independent studies should I study up on?
Reply #12 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Fine art isn't needed, won't hurt of course, but just a sketching class would be good. What degree are you going for if not graphic design? There's often quite a few degree names that basically mean the same thing.
Take as many courses as you can in the graphic design area, you don't need to take programming or anything like that. But I'd recommend any print, web, interactive media, video and sound classes you can handle. The only business classes you'll likely need to worry about except for random gen-ed classes that they make you take is what we know as "business practices". Whichever class works on selling your ideas to a potential employer, lays out what you need to know about copyright, registered trademarks etc... I'd say it's a good idea to take a speech class as well. Then try to keep an online and offline portfolio and a resume', both up to date as often as you can.
Reply #13 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Fine art isn't needed,

Oh, please.... that's like saying conversation doesn't need verbs...

I think you have a horribly myopic idea of what 'graphic design' means......there's a lot more to it than type-setting text....

Reply #14 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Fine art is a totally different major from Graphic Design, thats a fact that you should just go ahead and take to heart. You don't need 4 years of fine art then 4 more years of graphic design to do one of them.

Graphic Design is the use of elements, and not so commonly the creation of it. Most businesses often don't waste their time hiring "artists" to do work for them, and definetly not "fine artists." It's much more likely and sensible for them to use stock images to save on time, money, and headaches, as most "artists" usually prefer "pretty" over "functionality" and fight with their superiors about it.

You have a typical team of 3 to 4 people in a design project, a "Graphic Designer", an "Art Director", an "Account Executive", and sometimes a "Researcher." As follows the Graphic Designer does the most work, and gets paid the least, the Art Director does the least work, and gets paid the most.

The Graphic Designer has no contact with the client, has usually little or no creative say, and usually doesn't create their own work used in the job. Most of the images are picked out among stock, most of the time the type is delivered already written out, most of the time any need to shoot their own photo's there is a photographer that does it, not the Graphic Designer, then after the Art Director decides that direction to take after discussing it with the client, the Graphic Designer takes the elements and puts them all together accordingly. While the designer might be required to do some illustration it isn't considered an "asset" it's considered a "requirement." No different than a "writer" is considered talented because of spelling their words correctly. The last wakeup call is the Art Director has final say over everything that is done by the graphic designer, if the designers "artistic vision" conflicts or the designer feels the need to argue his idea to be better, they'll fire his ass and get someone who will do as instructed. It's not worth a company's time or money to hire employee's that don't do what they're told.

Fine art isn't needed,

Oh, please.... that's like saying conversation doesn't need verbs...

Maybe if I said something like...art doesn't need value (no I don't mean money) then you could have some merit saying that, but most graphic designers never had a day in any art class past highschool, and as I said, a sketching class is far more valuable to them than any fine art class ever will be. The principals of design are balance, emphasis, pattern, repetition, contrast, movement, rhythm, proportion, heirarchy, color, and unity.

"Creativity" NOT "Illustration" is a designers strong point and working ground. They sell and communicate ideas to a target audience, they don't "depend" on an image let alone one pinned soley to fine arts to do so.
The most "art" that is usually involved or seen in Graphic Design is the logo, and fine arts is usually the wrong approach in a logo as well. You need simplicity and something recognizable to brand your image, and highly detailed works go against what a logo is trying to accomplish.

Need examples? This is graphic design....








This isn't...





If the idea isn't clicking yet there's probably not much hope in trying or bothering. Of course the two can be related, of course one can be used in the other, but it's not required, and often there is plenty of top quality design without a single image. Bottom line: Graphic design is about communicating and selling an idea. You strike me as one of the people that think type or other elements aren't important. Just take a cool pretty image, hand-drawn, painted, photographed or whatever, and all you need to do is slap text on it and you're done.

To an Artist, a pencil is a tool, a paint brush is a tool, a sheet of clay is a tool, a canvas is a tool, but in Graphic Design, the art itself is a tool, and may or may not be used at all.

Thats a fact, and thats how this business works in the real world.

You're either confusing majors, or you're just the art enthusiast a lot of us know you as, arguing the point of how important apples are for making orange juice.

Graphic Design, Web and Interactive, Video and Sound, Skinning, Illustration, and Fine Arts, they all have common grounds, but they're are distinguished from each other.
So given my experience in the subject that is being asked, sketching a class that teaches you to thumbnail ideas, quickly and accurately is more important than a class that teaches you to make finished pieces of art of which are not intended to be used in any other form than they are created. Thats why Graphic Design courses require sketching, NOT art.
Reply #15 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Oh, please.... I've been doing Architecture since 1972 ... I think I have a fair inkling of what "graphic design" is all about.

Does the phrase 'teaching your grandmother to suck eggs' ring a bell?....

Reply #16 from WinCustomize Forums Top

All forms of visual 'art' imagery 2 dimensional replication of an object or idea requires DESIGN.

There is an equal requirement for layout composition in a newspaper advertisement, a picture book, comic, or where to stick the smile on the Mona Lisa.

Never closet yourself, or your thinking to within one medium or sphere of creative design.

You will be doomed to obscurity brought on by sameness of thought with all those other efluvia of the education machine.

You will learn more about graphic art by seeing the beauty and innocence in a child's face than you EVER will spelling 'beauty and innocence' right with the correct font and point size....

Reply #17 from WinCustomize Forums Top
horiz0n are you from New Albany, Indiana???
Reply #18 from WinCustomize Forums Top

OK...bottom line...

Ya wanna be a groovy Graphic Designer for an advertising co?

Buy some collarless shirts...tie your 'long' hair in a pony tail ..... say 'wow' a lot.

Ignore history, or any related visual art field in peril of your death.

TELL your client 'yes, it is confrontational but any publicity is good publicity...so what if it's racist/sexist?'

Lie to them that you did NOT plagiarise it from elsewhere....but if you did, no-one buys that mag, anyway...and besides you gave them a discount.

Drink too much...it compensates for creative juices drying up.

Swearing is good...it's so 'now'.

'Now' is good, too...cos it's not 'then'.

 

Better still...get a real education...learn about all visual art to a reasonable level...and if you can't stomach all that creativity...become a street sweeper....you'll get to look at the 'Graphic design' on the papers in the gutter.

Reply #19 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Art is whatever whoever is looking at whatever deems to be whatever they see whatever to be, not in whoever's eyes, but their own.

ie. The pile of clean clothes on my floor could be art, but I'm pretty sure that I'm just being lazy.

I reference the simpson's episode where homer botches a grill, and creates junk... err art.
Reply #20 from WinCustomize Forums Top
There's a pretty big difference between designing buildings, and designing layouts for marketing and advertising. This isn't design in general, this is "graphic design" specifically and while I might not be able to claim 33 years of working with buildings, I can definetly claim 5 years experience in THIS field, and 2 years experience employed as a GRAPHIC DESIGNER. And if all you think about is font and point size, then you're still thinking in terms of type not being important and just slapping it on the page.

Does the phrase "actions speak louder than words" ring a bell?

Or perhaps "If ignorance is bliss, why aren't more people happy?"

Your opinion on "being a groovy graphic designer" is like a pseudo-doctor giving medical advice without having any real credentials.

and I'm from and employed in Louisville, New Albany is a few minutes away.
Reply #21 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I want that refrigerator.
Reply #22 from WinCustomize Forums Top

The myopia that is endemic with this outlook pre-supposes that Architecture in no way encompasses graphic design.

Were you to actually study Architecture [the course, not the buildings] you'd find a whole swag of included subjects.    from Sociology to Life Drawing....AND, shock-horror.... Graphic Design, Sciagraphy, Technical Drawing, Rendering, Modelling, ad nauseum.

Text [if that is what pre-occupies you] is another design element, but it is only one.

It can be incorporated in the oldest visual imagery...eg Tattooing, or in anything done since....BUT it is one 'design element' within a myriad of others.

I repeat....ALL art is Graphic Design.

However..

All Graphic Design is not necessarily 'artistic'.

There is a difference.

Anyone wishing to get anywhere in the field of publishing design, advertising, logo creation.....graphic design...call it what you will...will be at a total disadvantage if they do not look beyond the end of their noses.

Reply #23 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I am from New Albany as well
Reply #24 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Reply #25 from WinCustomize Forums Top
To break down that "ostentatious" rambling:

All art is graphic design?
So what is the Mona Lisa adverting to or selling? Polident? Crest? Herbal Essences? Does the cracks in the paint signify that she should use skin lotion? Could you put a picture of the Sistine Chapel on a page in a magazine and expect anyone to understand what you're trying to convey? "WOW here's a pair of pants", but who the hell makes them? "Look at this picture of some gnarly new motorcycle." Thats awesome who makes it, where can I get one, are they out yet, can I even afford it? "Jeez, I don't know, it's just a picture."

You will learn more about graphic art by seeing the beauty and innocence in a child's face than you EVER will spelling 'beauty and innocence' right with the correct font and point size...

A picture is worth a thousand words, and the audience needs to know which one of those 1000 is actually IMPORTANT.

People need to know why the hell they're looking at an innocent childs face. Whats the point? Are trying to show something as being innocent in general? Are you trying to target parents specifically?

What kind of type do you use here? The words itself "beauty and innocence" won't match up to the picture, BUT you can show beauty and innocence using type without ever using those words at all. Whats the point of having a picture of innocent looking child if you put big gaudy bold square text on it. They totally conflict with each other. You have to keep in mind what is that child going to do to people? Will parents stop to look at it? Will teens? Will men as opposed to women? Did you even put it in the right magazine in the first place? Does a Kotex ad belong in Maxim magazine? Does a billboard for John Deere farm and tractor equipment belong on the streets of Ney York city? Hell no, and decisions like that are just as much part of the graphic design process as anything else.

Type isn't my fixation, but I'll argue indefinetly it's importance is beyond just words on a page. You wanna break it down to basics, you generally have two parts to an advertisement, you USUALLY have an image, you ALWAYS have type. If you're saying text pre-occupies me you're saying I'm the only one that see's its importance, good luck arguing that.

Just because the position Graphic Designer has the word graphic in it doesn't mean it falls back on only being important by means of art.

Further more, this isn't a debate on what the term means, it's definition is clear, and no amount of tossing words around will change it. This topic IS about A person wanting advice and help in the field of Graphic Design, what are you trying to tell him? He picked the wrong major? Fine Arts is more important than Graphic Design when it comes to being a Graphic Designer?