What happens after Death...

What is Death?

from JoeUser Forums
What happens when we die? The stupid or common answer is "nothing, your just dead". That answer annoys me all the time. You cannot be nothing. People find this concept very hard to grasp and about 90% of people i talk to about this doesnt understand me.

So 'Life' - your living it right now, how does it feel? - im going to ask you to think 'Deep' with me, dont think of the logics, but think almost sub conciously. 'Life' - you can feel it right now, not physically but mentaslly, you know that you exist, and you know that your real. You can 'Think' and you can 'know'.

When you die can you just stop 'knowing', 'thinking'? No, what does it feel like not to exist? What does it feel like not to be here? Yet you have to be somewhere, and you have to feel something,dead or alive? Some of you may be catching on now, and some are just confused and not understanding what im trying to say.

You can feel 'life' right now, but what does 'death' feel like, you have to feel something, you have to be somewhere. Think about it - go deep, forget about 'Physics' forget about 'Logic'.

Understand? - If no, then your not going deep enough.
8,815 views 22 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top
Understand? - If no, then your not going deep enough


I agree. Science has concluded that energy cannot be destroyed; it will always exist in some form or another. Consciousness and self-awareness are definite forms of energy, yet they elude scientific weighing or measuring. As our subjective-spirit is the essence or heart of our being, it's logical to conclude that our experience of "life" continues even after death.
Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top
Link
Check out my chart at LAVIZIONE - I spent about 1 half yrs working on it. I read the entire New Testament, so as to not suck this out of my thumb. The article is at Messiah's Highway, there is a link at the bottom of the page....the article is buried inside this title - Expose to the Jehovah's Witnesses Part 2 - they believe mistakenly that one is annihilated at death. They got it from buggering around with the Greek Texts and sucking on that poisonous root out of Alexandria...enough waffle, try the cream incase they do not accurately reflect me in this message I am aeryck.joeuser.com (Presently reading a little about Plato and Aristotle and those heavy thinkers-background to a new article about authenticity in biblical origins...a heavy one...should keep me busy for about 5 years) by the way the chart will make a great print and wall poster, you will need to go to a colour digital printer, unless you have your own...ofcourse, how stupid, I mean I only know your ariticl and no you. Insane in the membrane \0/
CursorFX - Customize your Windows cursor
Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top
1. Rigormortis
2. Initial decay
3. Putrefaction
4. Butyric fermentation
5. Dry decay

A buried body will develop a substance called gravewax (adipocere) from the parts that contain fat. (cheeks, breasts, abdomen, buttocks, etc.)


The so called "spirit" is nothing more than electric energy. Like all electricity, it eventually finds it's way to ground.

That's about it as far as I know. I'll add to this list if they find anything.
Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top
The so called "spirit" is nothing more than electric energy. Like all electricity, it eventually finds it's way to ground.


Can electricity experience life and appreciate intrinsic value and goodness? Can electricity feel pain, sorrow or joy? Is electricity aware of its environment and can it freely pursue truth and understanding? There's something more to the so-called spirit than electricity. As brendangenius said, it's something "deeper".

UBob,
Understand? - If no, then your not going deep enough
.

You seem to be thinking of the mechanisms of the physical brain, rather than the invisible substance of the spirit / consciousness, which is who you are.
Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top
Hey this is deeper than i expected people to go, some very good answers and theory's I had never thought of before.
Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top
Can electricity experience life and appreciate intrinsic value and goodness? Can electricity feel pain, sorrow or joy? Is electricity aware of its environment and can it freely pursue truth and understanding?


Of course not. The brain, powered by the electricity, accomplishes all this. The nearly 100 billion on/off switches called neurons, gather up and transmit electrochemical signals along a wire-like structure called an axon, these neurotransmitters start firing excitatory or inhibitory synapses, sending messages to the various sensory stations in the brain. It's very much like a computer, only way more complex.

Please understand that I only speak for what I believe. My collection of neurons is satisfied with this explanation.

I am happy for you that you feel there is something more mystical and deeper to all this, and I trully hope that you and others like you find the answers you are looking for.

Peace.
Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top
UBoB- that is a very logical and interesting thought, yet - what is it like to be dead? - can you really feel nothing? - I dont believe in any religion, but I Certainly find it hard to believe that our sprit or Awareness of our surrounding dies with us, mayb eour enjoy is put back into the ground, or our energy - which would support the theory or belief or re-incarnation.

Im not trying to imply any theory, just trying to get answers, which are obviously not "you just die" - no Science or physics support that theory, please read my 'There is life on other planets' article to see what I mean, and why we cant trust physics, and how our brain works and defines our environment around us. Link

Cheers!
Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top
What 'feels' are the nerves, what thinks and stores memories is the brain. How do you expect to continue feeling or thinking things when these fleshy parts of you have decayed? The reason people say that 'you' dont exist any more is because when your body has dissolved back to the atoms it consists of, theres nothing left that can feel or think or remember.

As for a spirit and whether it survives, I dont think so.. But Ill come back and tell you, if that happens to be the case, ok?

J.
Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top
Im not so sure about that - yes physically you will decay, but the sensation of 'knowing' as 'Brendangenius' mentions above, is something more than just nerves and electrical signals, not so sure about spirits, but more of a 'sub-concious' being.

I read his other article as he siggested; That seems to link closely with this.
Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top
What 'feels' are the nerves, what thinks and stores memories is the brain. How do you expect to continue feeling or thinking things when these fleshy parts of you have decayed?


It’s not the brain that experiences subjective feelings, awareness and sensations etc. It’s consciousness. In my opinion, it would be narrow minded to claim that consciousness can only exist within a physical brain. The religion that I believe in (Christianity), doesn’t say that we will float around in a disembodied state in the hereafter. Rather, it says that we will be clothed in a spiritual “resurrected body”, which I believe is made of different ‘stuff’ from our physical bodies on earth. (Sorry to get un-scientific there, but hey, I'm a religionist!) In the words of St. Paul, "When buried, it is a physical body; when raised, it will be a spiritual body. ... There are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies; the beauty that belongs to heavenly bodies is different to the beauty that belongs to earthly bodies." (1 Corinthians 15.44; 15.40.).

I believe that in Heaven, we will retain our individuality and will see God, His Angels, and our loved ones.
Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top
Jesus said somewhere in the Bible (i'm real bad about quoting the Bible, sowwy ) that the deads are asleep, and that they know nothing. So i believe that when you die you dont go to heaven or hell. You just 'sleep' until judgement day. When you sleep you dont know what's happenning around you, you dream and stuff. But that's about it.

Heh, we'll never know till we actually die.
Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top
When i recieve comments such as 'you die and rott' - alothough true, but i dont mean the physical state of the body, i mean the feeling of conciousness.
Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top
i dont mean the physical state of the body, i mean the feeling of conciousness


That's the part of us which Hindus call the "spark of God"; Christians call "the soul" (made in the "image and likeness of God"), and Buddhists say "is God".

Just different labels for the same thing. We are spiritual beings.

It's Who You Really Are.
Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top
That answer annoys me all the time. You cannot be nothing.


Granted, the atoms that make up your body will certainly never be "nothing." However, "consciousness," the result of the electro-chemical reactions in your brain and nervous system certainly ceases.

Perhaps you can understand it if I use a simple analogy. If you take a computer and hammer it to bits, the component parts certainly still exist in some form -- but the computer would no longer function.
Reply #15 from JoeUser Forums Top
Perhaps you can understand it if I use a simple analogy. If you take a computer and hammer it to bits, the component parts certainly still exist in some form -- but the computer would no longer function.


Myrrander, that's a good analogy. I think it would be a better analogy if computers had feelings and thoughts, and could experience life and make free choices. It’s a different ball game when we add a self-aware ‘subject’ which transcends inanimate matter.

It is true that from a scientific point of view, there’s no reason to posit “purpose” to consciousness at all. This is because science is unable to assign either meaning or non-meaning to the universe it explores. (If it does so, then it’s not science, but rather a personal faith system.)

Yet whatever we believe about the purpose or non-purpose of life, and about what happens after death, our belief necessarily exists within consciousness in the first place, so we should be careful that we don’t miss the wood for the trees.
Reply #16 from JoeUser Forums Top
Brendan, I do understand what you mean by 'something deeper' not connected to the physical part of the human. However, all our feelings and thoughts are directly connected to our physical state. When the brain deteriorates and more or less dissolves, so too do the feelings and emotions. Any soul or spirit or whatever it is you want to call it dissolves along with the neurons.

We know that our thoughts and emotions are controlled by various parts of the brain by scans. Scientists have found that different feelings cause different parts of the brain to buzz (not literally) with activity. For example, a feeling of sadness may get one part of the brain to react in one way, while joy will make it react in a totally different way.

If our emotions, thoughts, and feelings are controlled by neurons and such, how are they to linger once the structure of the brain breaks down?
Reply #17 from JoeUser Forums Top
Well, my friend, you make a valid point. But can everything a human does be explained that way? Can the unique personality carried by everyone be explained that way? For the record, don't answer, I know you have a long-winded scientific explanation. Can the principles of 'good and evil' be explained in such a way? Again, don't answer. I like to believe that God has put a soul in each of us that sets apart our minds from the minds of animals. I like to believe that there is, indeed a soul that carries our personality.

With Regards,
Your Catholic friend
Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top
I am not learned in the study of brains, or neurology as it is called, so for me to comment on the intricacies of the human mind would be foolish. I know only the basics.
Reply #19 from JoeUser Forums Top
We know that our thoughts and emotions are controlled by various parts of the brain by scans


This is where religious wisdom gets ‘deeper’ than materialism, and actually refutes its principles. Religion teaches that we can overcome external conditions from within through meditation and prayer and by changing our thoughts. In this way, our consciousness determines our brain states, rather than the other way round. (When a scientist analyses a person’s brain by showing digital wavelengths on a monitor, and shows that they can change when a person’s emotions change, they are not explaining the processes of consciousness. Rather, they’re simply describing physical patterns of the brain, which are determined by consciousness.)

Of course, we cannot deny that it can work the other way round too. If you physically damage somebody’s brain, then this will effect their thoughts and feelings. But ultimately, spiritual forces can override physical forces - when one puts one’s mind to it.

The best example of this principle I’ve come across can be found in the account of Auschwitz death camp survivor Victor Frankl.

In his book ‘Man’s Search For Meaning’, Frankl says, “Often it is just such an exceptionally difficult external situation which gives man the opportunity to grow spiritually beyond himself. … ... To be sure, a human being is a finite thing, and his freedom is restricted. It is not freedom from conditions, but it is freedom to take stand toward the conditions. … Even the helpless victim of a hopeless situation, facing a fate he cannot change, may rise above himself, may grow beyond himself, and by doing so change himself. He may turn a personal tragedy into a triumph.”

Frankl refutes Sigmund Freud's theory, (and also materialists' theories) that human beings are 'conditioned' by their external surroundings. Freud had asserted, "Let one attempt to expose a number of the most diverse people uniformly to hunger. With the increase of the imperative urge of hunger, all individual differences will blur, and in their stead will appear the uniform expression of the one unstilled urge."

Frankl replies, "Thank heaven, Sigmund Freud was spared knowing the concentration camps from the inside. His subjects lay on a couch designed in the plush style of Victorian culture, not in the filth of Auschwitz. There, the 'individual differences' did not 'blur' but, on the contrary, people became more different: people unmasked themselves, both the swine and saints. ... We may predict the movements of a machine, of an automation; more than this, we may even try to predict the mechanisms of the human psyche as well. But man is more than psyche."


Our religions teach that we can attain inner peace, regardless of our external conditions. And many religionists have discovered the truth of this principle, rather than just the theory.

When the brain deteriorates and more or less dissolves, so too do the feelings and emotions. Any soul or spirit or whatever it is you want to call it dissolves along with the neurons

TheFazz, fow do you know this? You might have a pleasant surprise when your number is up.
We know that our thoughts and emotions are controlled by various parts of the brain by scans

See reply #10. All in all, consciousness is the 'essence' of one's being which intrinsically experiences life.
Reply #20 from JoeUser Forums Top
This is where religious wisdom gets ‘deeper’ than materialism


That is what i have been trying to get at -
Reply #21 from JoeUser Forums Top
"When buried, it is a physical body; when raised, it will be a spiritual body. ... There are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies; the beauty that belongs to heavenly bodies is different to the beauty that belongs to earthly bodies." (1 Corinthians 15.44; 15.40.).

I believe that in Heaven, we will retain our individuality and will see God, His Angels, and our loved ones.


This most definately is what I believe happens. And to put another spin on this, what about dreams of our loved ones when they die? Is anyone going to say those dreams or not real? The soul does live on.