The Right to Belive As I Do

Your eloquence is great!  You said very well what I have been trying to say.  But instead of listening, they just tell me to mind my own business, and that they will take care of the left, thank you very little.

Insightful.

The Right to Belive As I Do By: Gideon MacLeish Posted: Friday, January 21, 2005 on gideon's trumpet Message Board: Politics Two and a half months after the left snatched defeat from the jaws of victory, they still don't get it. While I have strongly held opinions, I try to reserve those opinions for my personal journals and discussions among friends and moderate myself to a degree that is diplomatically prudent. I believe that "a faith worth having is a faith worth defending", and I hold my beliefs dear to me. Diplomacy, however,is not acceptable to much of the American left. They attack at every chance, and push moderates against the wall at every chance they get, under the illusion that moderates will do an about face and concede that the left is 100% right, about everything. This isn't the case with all among the left,but it is true of enough of them to form a reasonable stereotype. It is NOT ACCEPTABLE to concede that teaching religion in schools might not be the best for our children. It is only acceptable when we sweep through the schools and remove everything in them that might suggest the possible presence of a deity (so much for sending them with lunch money....ATM cards don't contain the deplorable "In God We Trust", so we better use THEM instead). It is NOT ACCEPTABLE to state that "I dislike abortion but respect a woman's right to choose". We are expected to accept nothing less than federally funded abortion on demand as a form of birth control. It is NOT ACCEPTABLE to acknowledge "civil unions" among gay couples. We MUST treat them with the same legal and social status of a heterosexually married couple.And the list goes on. The American left needs to realize that there is an end result to continually pushing and bullying their opponents. It's called revolution. And I'm beginning to have a distinct feeling that it has no small amount to do with what happened in America's voting booths on Nov. 2, 2004. The left needs to wake up or they will find themselves continually displaced.

I have but 2 words to say. "Thank you"!

Diplomacy, however,is not acceptable to much of the American left. They attack at every chance, and push moderates against the wall at every chance they get, under the illusion that moderates will do an about face and concede that the left is 100% right, about everything

Gideon--I have to say that this holds true to the extremes on both parties. I feel constantly attacked around these forums for my beliefs and try to respond diplomatically and without malice--but that same respect is not often returned.

Also, for an example from yesterday. Hardball reported that some pro-Bush people were annoyed with the protesters yesterday--protesters who were following the rules and, as Tom Ridge said, exercising their first amendment rights. These Bush supporters started throwing snowballs and ice at the protesters. Chris Matthews asked if it was done in jest, or if it was malicious. Unfortunately, the reporter noted, it was done with anger in the hopes of shutting them up. That doesn't seem like compromise or allowing others the right to believe as they wish.

So, please, do not pretend that the "browbeating, I'm always right, I listen to no one, and I will not compromise attitude" is a left only trait--you need only meander through the forums on JU to see that that is simply not the case.

Reply #3 By: shadesofgrey - 1/21/2005 4:24:45 PM Diplomacy, however,is not acceptable to much of the American left. They attack at every chance, and push moderates against the wall at every chance they get, under the illusion that moderates will do an about face and concede that the left is 100% right, about everything Gideon--I have to say that this holds true to the extremes on both parties. I feel constantly attacked around these forums for my beliefs and try to respond diplomatically and without malice--but that same respect is not often returned. Also, for an example from yesterday. Hardball reported that some pro-Bush people were annoyed with the protesters yesterday--protesters who were following the rules and, as Tom Ridge said, exercising their first amendment rights. These Bush supporters started throwing snowballs and ice at the protesters. Chris Matthews asked if it was done in jest, or if it was malicious. Unfortunately, the reporter noted, it was done with anger in the hopes of shutting them up. That doesn't seem like compromise or allowing others the right to believe as they wish.

Throwing ice is not cool. But snowballs? Come on. Next thing you know they'll outlaw kids having snowball fights. Never saw a snowball hurt someone. Slushball, different story.

So, please, do not pretend that the "browbeating, I'm always right, I listen to no one, and I will not compromise attitude" is a left only trait--you need only meander through the forums on JU to see that that is simply not the case.

There's definitely bad apples on both sides, but as long as the left keeps saying: "Oh but they do it too, so no need for us to change a damn thing!" they're going to keep losing.

There's definitely bad apples on both sides, but as long as the left keeps saying: "Oh but they do it too, so no need for us to change a damn thing!" they're going to keep losing.

That is not what I said at all. I said, that I use diplomacy and try to be polite but it is not matched. My point is simply do not judge the entire left by the few bad apples--which seems to be a common trend.

That is not what I said at all. I said, that I use diplomacy and try to be polite but it is not matched. My point is simply do not judge the entire left by the few bad apples--which seems to be a common trend.

Maybe people shouldn't judge the entire left by the bad apples, but the problem is that the Democrat Party itself doesn't seem to even want to distance themselves from Michael Moore and the like. As long as the left embraces its bad apples, they're going to be represented by them.

Throwing ice is not cool. But snowballs? Come on. Next thing you know they'll outlaw kids having snowball fights. Never saw a snowball hurt someone. Slushball, different story.

you haven't seen my son's snowballs!  They HURT!

Maybe people shouldn't judge the entire left by the bad apples, but the problem is that the Democrat Party itself doesn't seem to even want to distance themselves from Michael Moore and the like. As long as the left embraces its bad apples, they're going to be represented by them.

First off--this article isn't about the Democratic party--it's about your average everyday person with left leaning tendencies. I have a funny feeling Gideon hasn't been lambasted by Barbara Boxer or Hillary Clinton recently. Secondly, for every lefty that you find offensive, I can name a conservative you gets under my skin who is embraced by the Republican party. It's a pointless exercise.

isn't it ironic, If I'm telling them what I think I get "quit cramming your beliefs down by throat"... when they're telling me what they think it's, "c'mon, have an open mind."

Apparently the words, "open mind" and "bipartisan" have become buzzwords for "why don't you see things my way" for the more militant left.

That is not what I said at all. I said, that I use diplomacy and try to be polite but it is not matched. My point is simply do not judge the entire left by the few bad apples--which seems to be a common trend.

Shades, you are right.  And while in the heat of debate, we often do, we should not.  But for others, that is all they have to go on.  As I commented in greywar's blog, even tho the people shown are bad apples of the left, who do you think the GIs see?  The Parents of the GIs?  you? Texas? Kingbee?

No, they see those ingrates and then when you loudly proclaim that you 'support the troops, not the war', all they remember are those photos of the idiots in Spokane.

Time to ignore the idiots on each side is long over.  It is time to confront them and put them in their place.

Throwing ice is not cool. But snowballs? Come on. Next thing you know they'll outlaw kids having snowball fights. Never saw a snowball hurt someone. Slushball, different story.

I didn't see this before--actually throwing anything out of malice is not cool--regardless of whether or not it is just snow--it's called assault and is an arrestable offense...but, you seem to think it is ok and funny because you "got those damn liberal protesters." I'm sure it wouldn't have been nearly as funny had protesters been throwing snow at the President.

Reply #12 By: shadesofgrey - 1/21/2005 4:52:36 PM Throwing ice is not cool. But snowballs? Come on. Next thing you know they'll outlaw kids having snowball fights. Never saw a snowball hurt someone. Slushball, different story. I didn't see this before--actually throwing anything out of malice is not cool--regardless of whether or not it is just snow--it's called assault and is an arrestable offense

You'd be wrong! If that was the case, then everytime a couple of kids had a snowball *fight* there would be an arrest made. Especially since a *fight* is considered an assualt. Throwing things at ANY president would get the secret service all over you like stink on pooh!

You'd be wrong! If that was the case, then everytime a couple of kids had a snowball *fight* there would be an arrest made. Especially since a *fight* is considered an assualt.

Actually, intent would be the key and it would be assault.

or use of force on another that reasonably makes that person fear bodily harm.

When children engage each other in a snowball fight, they are not fearful. If strangers start pelting me with snowballs, I have every right to file assault charges against them for using force and making me fearful.

First off--this article isn't about the Democratic party--it's about your average everyday person with left leaning tendencies. I have a funny feeling Gideon hasn't been lambasted by Barbara Boxer or Hillary Clinton recently. Secondly, for every lefty that you find offensive, I can name a conservative you gets under my skin who is embraced by the Republican party. It's a pointless exercise.

And your average everyday person with left leaning tendancy is often a Democrat. How many liberals here voted for somebody other than Kerry? I'm sure the number is not as high as the number of conservatives who voted for Badnarik instead of Bush.
Whether you like it or not, Democrats and other liberals need an attitude adjustment. If they're going to continue embracing their bad apples because (in the most childish tone possible) "the right does it too!", then they shouldn't complain when they are treated like the liberals on the edge.

Whether you like it or not, Democrats and other liberals need an attitude adjustment. If they're going to continue embracing their bad apples because (in the most childish tone possible) "the right does it too!", then they shouldn't complain when they are treated like the liberals on the edge.

As Gideon points out in this article, I have the right to believe as I do. I am not obligated to reign in other people who fall close to me on the political spectrum. I am no more response for what Michael Moore says or does than the right is for what David Duke says or does. I am not the party and I would argue that politics inside the Washington beltway is very far removed from your average american's daily existence. Politicians on both side are pretty out of touch with reality.

The hatred, animosity and immaturity rings from both sides of the political aisle. To pretend otherwise is to ignore the facts.

As Gideon points out in this article, I have the right to believe as I do. I am not obligated to reign in other people who fall close to me on the political spectrum. I am no more response for what Michael Moore says or does than the right is for what David Duke says or does.

But the right repudiates and abhors David Duke, and goes out of its way to distance themselves from him.  The same cannot be said for Michael Moore, or the other loony loopy luddites on the left.  Unles you go OUT OF YOU WAY to repudiate them, you are branded with them.  That may not be fair, but it is life.

well writen, Gid, but a bit hyperbolic

cheers

Reply #14 By: shadesofgrey - 1/21/2005 4:58:17 PM You'd be wrong! If that was the case, then everytime a couple of kids had a snowball *fight* there would be an arrest made. Especially since a *fight* is considered an assualt. Actually, intent would be the key and it would be assault. or use of force on another that reasonably makes that person fear bodily harm. When children engage each other in a snowball fight, they are not fearful. If strangers start pelting me with snowballs, I have every right to file assault charges against them for using force and making me fearful.

Yes you very well could. But you'd have a hard time making it stick in court. I'd be willing to bet that the judge would laugh it out of court. PS: Don't take my word for it. Go ask a reputable lawyer if you can locate such an animal.

Shadesofgrey: I adore you! Thank you thank you thank you thank you. I second everything you have said in this discussion.

who do you think the GIs see? The Parents of the GIs? you? Texas? Kingbee?

Hmmm . . . considering the fact that I live on an Army base . . .

As Gideon points out in this article, I have the right to believe as I do. I am not obligated to reign in other people who fall close to me on the political spectrum. I am no more response for what Michael Moore says or does than the right is for what David Duke says or does. I am not the party and I would argue that politics inside the Washington beltway is very far removed from your average american's daily existence. Politicians on both side are pretty out of touch with reality.

If you don't condone the words of Michael Moore and the other bad apples, then you're an exception to the rule, because liberals and Democrats have been condoning such people.
So, yes, you can't judge the entire left by the actions of a few bad apples, but you can't even judge the entire KKK as every single member in the entire universe ever to exist as being racist because there's always an exception to the rule, but you can definitely say that the fringe is representative of the left.

well writen, Gid, but a bit hyperbolic

Not that hyperbolic, actually. In repeated threads, I have tried to be moderate in my response, but have been hit pretty hard because I don't give many of the left complete concession on their point.

Anyway, shades, you are correct when you state the problem is just as bad from the extremists on the right. It's pretty much a problem with human interactions in general. But the right has at least mustered the ability to coalesce their idealogues enough to elect a president to their liking; the left is continually fractured and their ability to produce leaders is becoming suspect.

The thing is, leftists need to concede, they lost a VERY winnable election. Wise leaders among the left would do well to try to figure out WHY. And if you want to know why, you should ask around among those who did not support Bush, but would not support Kerry either. Falling in that category, and knowing several who fall into that category as well, I believe I can speak for a few of us.