Human Rights Watch condemns US human rights record

what happened to the land of the free

http://www.hrw.org/wr2k5/
from JoeUser Forums
Yesterday the US based Human Rights Watch released there 2005 Human Rights report. In a report that gives a very detailed overview of human right abuses acorss the world, the US in particular was singled out as a major factor in eroding global Human Rights.

It's opening paragraph on the US paints the proud history of human rights that the US used to stand for.

"but the United States has long seen itself to be, and in many places has been perceived to be, an effective advocate for human rights worldwide and one that practices much of what it preaches."

Unfortunately from there it's all downhill. In particuar it highlighted failing is Iraq, Afganistan and Guantanamo Bay, with it's use of "coercive interrogation and disregard for the Geneva Conventions ". They discuss in broad detail the actual human right failings and the current statis of current abuses. I'd definitely suggest all Americans have a read of this, and ask themselves if this is really the way they want their country to go.

All is not rosy for the EU either though, with the UK in particular coming in for critism. Thankfully the UK and European courts have recently ruled against the UK governments illegal detentions. Further rulings against the use of diplomatic assurances are expected to follow. The price of freedom though is eternal vigilance, often of our own governments.

So not a very good year for global human rights and a particularly bad year for the US' reputation in this area.

Paul.
politics
16,476 views 14 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top
It's easy for international groups like HRW to make these condemnations because they are not responsible for the security of America.

It is not possible to thwart Al Qaeda (and other international terrorist groups) under the auspices of the criminal justice system, just as it is not possible to capture prisoners of war under the auspices of the criminal justice system. The problem is that terrorists do not declare themselves openly.

Large and well-organized terrorist groups pose a threat that cannot be brushed of as "just criminal behavior". There is a serious discussion to be had about what measures are appropriate, but ignoring or minimizing the threat from terrorists is not constructive.
Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top

Human Rights Watch condemns US human rights record

By: Solitair
Posted: Friday, January 14, 2005 on solitair.JoeUser.com
Message Board: Politics
Yesterday the US based Human Rights Watch released there 2005 Human Rights report. In a report that gives a very detailed overview of human right abuses acorss the world, the US in particular was singled out as a major factor in eroding global Human Rights.

It's opening paragraph on the US paints the proud history of human rights that the US used to stand for.

"but the United States has long seen itself to be, and in many places has been perceived to be, an effective advocate for human rights worldwide and one that practices much of what it preaches."

Unfortunately from there it's all downhill. In particuar it highlighted failing is Iraq, Afganistan and Guantanamo Bay, with it's use of "coercive interrogation and disregard for the Geneva Conventions ". They discuss in broad detail the actual human right failings and the current statis of current abuses. I'd definitely suggest all Americans have a read of this, and ask themselves if this is really the way they want their country to go.

All is not rosy for the EU either though, with the UK in particular coming in for critism. Thankfully the UK and European courts have recently ruled against the UK governments illegal detentions. Further rulings against the use of diplomatic assurances are expected to follow. The price of freedom though is eternal vigilance, often of our own governments.

So not a very good year for global human rights and a particularly bad year for the US' reputation in this area.

Paul.


Did you bother to read the whole thing or just the pablum you wanted?
While we are up on the list we were NOT the number 1 concern. We are listed as a champion of the biggest problem they see.


Darfur
Many reasons can be cited for the world’s callous disregard for the death of an estimated 70,000 people and the displacement of some 1.6 million more in Darfur. The second essay of this volume describes several of these reasons. None, however, justifies this cruel indifference. Once more, the U.N. Security Council has been hampered by its permanent members’ threatened parochial use of their veto—a veto that, as recommended by the U.N.’s high-level panel on global threats, should never be exercised “in cases of genocide and large-scale human rights abuses.” This time, China has been the primary problem, demonstrating more concern for preserving its lucrative oil contracts in Sudan than for saving thousands of lives. Russia, protecting its own valuable arms sales to Khartoum, has seconded this cold-hearted unresponsiveness.

The non-permanent members also share culpability. Algeria and Pakistan have been models of Islamic solidarity, so long as that is defined as fealty to an Islamic government rather than commitment to the lives of Muslim victims. Other African members of the council, Angola and Benin, placed a premium on loyalty to a fellow African government. In the U.N. General Assembly, scores of governments, hostile to any human rights criticism because of their own poor records, opposed even discussing Sudan’s murderous campaign, let alone condemning it.

Even the champions of human rights in Darfur—Washington foremost among them
Galactic Civilizations IV
Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top
Drmiller,
yes I did read the whole thing and linked so that others could as well. It's a huge document though and I chose to focus on the US human right abuses not on Dafur or the countless other issues highlighted in the report. This is my blog and I have the right to write about what I desire. Feel free to start your own article on how great the US human right record is due to it's efforts in Darfur. To balance the critism of the US, I also included the critism of the EU.

Trying to deflect critism of US human right problems behind praise of responses to other issues is not going to make the US abuses go away though. And even in Darfur they (along with everyone else) are not yet doing enough. The attacks are still happening even in refugee camps. The HRW report highlights the fact that other countries (such as China and Russia) now ignore US human right complaints (such as over Darfur) because the US has lost any respect it had on this issue. It also highlights the need for some other major country or block to fill this void of human right campaigner which the US abandoned.

Paul.
Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top
Reply #4 By: Solitair - 1/14/2005 2:14:21 PM
Drmiller,
yes I did read the whole thing and linked so that others could as well. It's a huge document though and I chose to focus on the US human right abuses not on Dafur or the countless other issues highlighted in the report. This is my blog and I have the right to write about what I desire. Feel free to start your own article on how great the US human right record is due to it's efforts in Darfur. To balance the critism of the US, I also included the critism of the EU.

Trying to deflect critism of US human right problems behind praise of responses to other issues is not going to make the US abuses go away though. And even in Darfur they (along with everyone else) are not yet doing enough. The attacks are still happening even in refugee camps. The HRW report highlights the fact that other countries (such as China and Russia) now ignore US human right complaints (such as over Darfur) because the US has lost any respect it had on this issue. It also highlights the need for some other major country or block to fill this void of human right campaigner which the US abandoned.


First we're ALL screwed up and then according to you we don't do enough. Is there *anything* that *would* satisfy you?
Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top
The argument that "the US has lost any respect it had on this issue" is a monstrous copout. There seems to be nothing more enjoyable or fulfilling to the self-appointed righteous ones than bashing the most generous nation in history. It's about time some of them bothered to say "Thank you!"

Could things be better? Sure. Would things be a helluva lot worse without us? Damn sure.

Cheers,
Daiwa
Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top
For the Indian record, kindly see the Article on 'International Covenant on Basic Human Rights' at the themissociijuris blog on Joeuser.
Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top

I think it is pretty apparent that folks at HRW think the war in terror, itself, is a crime against human rights, and this is a backhanded statement to that effect. I don't think there's doubt in anyone's mind that human rights abuses occur, even here in America. Excesses by police here are spotlighted harshly.

Therein lies the difference, and the crime of this kind of bias I think. The nations that are sitting back enjoying this "spotlight on America" don't self-police such, they use human rights abuses as operating procedure. Now China and the rest are enjoying the shift of perspective and are able to justify the wrongs they do.

Do you think you can have a society and military the size of ours and not have abuses? We have millions of people in the military. Would you imagine that a tenth of a percent wouldn't be deviant, given the percent of regular citizens that end up in prison? A tenth of a percent of a million is 1000.

I applaud the thoroughness of HRW's vigilence, and condemn their lack of perspective. There's a difference between deviants in a society commiting abuses, and the government itself functioning at a level of human rights abuse with total ambivilance and unapologetic zeal. Their report does more to promote abuses in problem nations than it does to stem US and UK abuses...

Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top
Is there *anything* that *would* satisfy you?


A repeal of US legislation that allows for the human right abuse that is Guantanemo Bay. Luckily the US supreme court seems to be agreeing with me on that issue though and has twice ruled against the government on this issue. The government is now being forced to rectify the abuse of holding prisoners without any rights.

A clear committment from the US to once again return to the principles of human rights on which the nation was built and became great. Allowing the use of mild torture techniques is a fall from the moral podium on which the western world should be standing. How can we condemn human right abuses in other countries when we allow abuses in our own. The war on terror does not require the US to abandon it's principles.

The same basically goes for the UK and other western countries that are failing on human rights. Any laws that are inconsistent with human right conventions need to be scrapped or rewritten. We can win this war on terror without abandoning our morals and principles.

Paul.
Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top
There's a difference between deviants in a society commiting abuses, and the government itself functioning at a level of human rights abuse with total ambivilance and unapologetic zeal


This is very true. There will always be abuses in any country. What has been happening under US controlled prisons however is not purely the sad results of individuals. Sadly it is the US government itself who are trying to officially introduce interrogation techniques which would be describes as torture. They are the ones who have tried the blur the line between acceptable and unacceptable behaviour. They are the ones who failed to meet treaty obligations to ensure that all prison guards are aware of the human rights of prisoners. The guards may be primarily at fault, but blame does also lie with the government. Furthermore, it is the US government who have created a scenario in Guantanemo Bay where some humans are held totally outside of any legal or human rights. Thankfully the US supreme court has made some inroads here, and the US government must now determine legal status for these prisoners and allow then recourse to the US legal system.

No one is suggesting that the US is the biggest human rights abuser out there. it certainly is nowhere near that. It does however have one of the further distances to fall having set itself firmly in the past on the moral high ground. Last year the Chinese sniggered at critism from the US yearly report on human right abuses, this year they'll probably break out laughing. The fact that the US government itself is bending human right principles is far more damaging ona global level than the sad fact taht 70,000 have been killed in Sudan. Even there the fear of US action is weak and Sudanese politicians have laughed at the US human rights credentials.

Paul.
Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top

Reply #9 By: Solitair - 1/15/2005 10:19:21 AM
A repeal of US legislation that allows for the human right abuse that is Guantanemo Bay


And that would be what, exactly?
Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top
And that would be what, exactly?


- The holding of human beings outside of any legal protection.
- Holding of human beings indefinitely without trial.
- Refusal of the right to a fair trial

These three in paticular need to be changed. The US supreme court has already ruled the first point as illegal. It has ruled that the prisoners must have access to the US legal system (including the right to laywers and trial) and also that they must have their legal status determined. It has dictated to the government that it must set up legal tribunals to determine whether the prisoners are pows or prisoners. Either of these will automatically grant the two other items I've listed. The sad truth is that the US is still delaying though and has yet to implement the ruling of the US supreme court.

Paul.
Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top

Classic case of the guy looking for his keys under the streetlight:

A cop sees a man on the ground looking around on the ground for something. He's searching underneath a very bright street light.

He says "Sir, can I help you with something?"

The man says "I'm looking for my keys, I dropped them."

The cop says "Where do you think you dropped them?"

The man replies "Back over there in the dark."

The cop, confused asks, "Then why are you looking here under the street light?"

The man response "Because there's no way in hell I'll ever find my keys over there in the dark so this is my only possible chance."

That's what "Human Rights Watch" is. They're the man looking for car keys under the street light.  The world is full of massive human rights abuse on epic scales at times but they focus their energies on nit-picking what the US and other western countries have done because no one else gives a shit what Human Rights Watch thinks.

Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top
Actually, I'd suggest the situation is more akin to them trying to fix the light because it has started flickering. Yes there are darker places but that's no reason to try to save a bring light that's flickering from failing. If they can fix the light and make it shine that bit more brightly then more of the dark areas will be revealed and lit up.

paul.