Right to Privacy in Restroom Not Absolute

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Right to Privacy in Restroom Not Absolute

by Jim Suhr


ST. LOUIS (AP) - A man found partly disrobed with a woman, cocaine and marijuana in the one-person restroom of an Iowa convenience store in an area known for prostitution had no absolute right to privacy, a federal appeals court ruled Tuesday.
An 8th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals panel unanimously rejected Lonnie Maurice Hill's claim that police who found him with the woman and drugs breached his Fourth Amendment right to privacy, making the drugs illegally seized and unusable as evidence.
Other courts have held that the right of privacy in bathrooms varies case to case, with some judges holding that a stall in a public restroom is not a private place when used for something other than its intended purpose.
"The Fourth Amendment protects people and not places," Judge Donald Lay wrote for the three-judge 8th Circuit panel. In Hill's case, "it was not a single person using the single toilet restroom but two persons of opposite gender and, under the circumstances, we hold that they had a diminished expectation of privacy which had expired by the time the officers arrived."
When it comes to restroom privacy, "we have never held that this expectation lasts indefinitely," Lay wrote.
The 8th Circuit also cited legal precedent finding that an expectation of privacy in businesses "is different from, and indeed less than, a similar expectation in an individual's home."
Such cases, Lay wrote, "recognize that regardless of one's subjective expectation of privacy in a public restroom," society's recognition of that expectation is limited by the bathroom's design, location and "the probability that one will be asked to surrender use of the restroom to others."
Clemens Erdahl, an Iowa attorney for Hill, said it remained unclear whether his client would further appeal the matter, including asking the U.S. Supreme Court to consider the case.
But Erdahl suggested the case left some things unanswered, including hypothetically whether a married couple would be allowed to occupy a single-person bathroom simultaneously.
At the convenience store in question, he said, the sign said "Restrooms," with a symbol for each gender.
"That sign was a little misleading and certainly ambiguous," Erdahl said.
Hill was arrested in 2003 after a convenience store clerk in Cedar Rapids, Iowa, called police to report suspicious activity - a man and woman entering the site's small, one-person restroom for use by either gender.
Police who responded within minutes knocked anonymously on the bathroom door but got no answer. When an officer rapped on the door with his flashlight, "he heard a jingle like a belt buckle but otherwise no response," Lay wrote.
When an officer unlocked the door, someone in the restroom relocked it. After the officer unlocked the door again, a woman squeezed out moments before Hill followed, his pants undone and loosely held by a belt. Hill saw the officer and re-entered the bathroom before being arrested.
Inside, police found a small bag of marijuana and two clear baggies of cocaine atop a metal wastebasket near the toilet, along with a metal scale.
Hill was indicted on drug-related charges. He pleaded guilty and was sentenced in April to four months behind bars.
In Tuesday's ruling, Lay wrote that "Hill and his female companion occupied the restroom in a manner for which it was not designed, and remained there after being asked to leave."
"Under these circumstances, we hold that whatever reasonable expectation of privacy Hill and his companion had expired by the time the officers arrived," Lay wrote.
Still, the judge noted, each case should be weighed individually, and that "clearly, our conclusion regarding Hill and his companion may stand on different footing than say a child and a parent or where one person because of a disability or some other medical reason may need assistance."



Extra credit and /insightful bonuses to the Judges for realizing that each case has to be decided individually.

Darwin awards to the perpetrators in this case, as they should have sought out a better place for their purposes. I guess the thought of a hotel room didn't occur to them. Or, perhaps, they didn't want to waste the money for that (maybe they were thinking way ahead and realized they'd need the money for bail).

Either way, something to remember - your right to privacy doesn't always extend to the use of a restroom.

BTW, extra credit for any one that can really find the right to privacy in the Constitution or Bill of Rights.
2,077 views 7 replies
Reply #1 Top
BTW, extra credit for any one that can really find the right to privacy in the Constitution or Bill of Rights.

No privacy for anyone! Every bathroom a glass house so we can take a dump while watching our neighbor do the same! Whatever.

.... let's keep looking for holes in the constitution that would allow the possibility of a totalitarian police state...

On a more serious note, one will not find an explicit amendment in the bill of rights, that is very true. Our founding fathers, however, certainly had individual privacy for citizens in mind and transparency for the government in mind in establishing our framework which is hinted at with nearly every amendment. We can also look at our contemporary laws (pre-9/11) and see explicit examples of laws designed to protect citizen privacy.

Finally, it is very interesting to note that the lack of an explicit right to privacy is given such notice when examining the Constitution or Bill of Rights while no attention is being paid to the trampling of existing amendments very explicitly stated in the Bill of Rights by post 9/11 laws.

Reply #2 Top
No privacy for anyone! Every bathroom a glass house so we can take a dump while watching our neighbor do the same! Whatever.


Rhetoric Award to Deference for taking the decision to the extreme!! What part of "case by case" did you not understand? The decision did not authorize surveillance cameras in every stall, it merely stated that, privacy in the public bathroom (need I emphasis the word "Public"?) extends only to the intended purpose of the bathroom.

In other words, public bathrooms are not to be considered a safe zone for criminal activity.
Reply #3 Top
Reply #1 By: Deference - 1/12/2005 12:34:17 PM
BTW, extra credit for any one that can really find the right to privacy in the Constitution or Bill of Rights.

No privacy for anyone! Every bathroom a glass house so we can take a dump while watching our neighbor do the same! Whatever.


So if some pervert is doing a youngster in a public bathroom along with snorting coke and smoking pot (ALL of which are *extremely* illegal). That we should just turn our heads and pretend not to notice?
Reply #5 Top

Rhetoric Award to Deference for taking the decision to the extreme!! What part of "case by case" did you not understand?

You sound like an attorney! Guess what, they *lie* for a living. "Case by case" is legal b.s. for "we're going to say screw interpreting the law, we're just gonna' make whatever ruling we want - in this case and the next!"

When a ruling occurs, it sets what is called a "precedent". The precedent in this case is that if one is in a public restroom and being *monitored*, they can be disturbed if someone is simply *curious* about what it is one is doing in there. In this case, the fact that both a man and woman entered a restroom together was enough for the judge to state that their "expectation of privacy" had "expired". So now the precedent is set in Missouri, by the 8th circuit court that it's just fine to be messed with while in the bathroom if a woman is present with you. Those disabled vets with helpful wives sure will appreciate getting messed with in the john by overzealous shopkeepers and hometown police with nothing better to do then look for non-violent crimes to get their tally for the month.

In other words, public bathrooms are not to be considered a safe zone for criminal activity

The fact is, no place is safe zone for criminal activity in the eyes of the law - a good and right thing. We must weigh the public welfare against individual rights. We must find what is proper. You may think this is a fine judgement. But looking ahead, we see a slippery slope we are about to fall from, leaving all rights behind and establishing a totalitarian state. Look at the use of cameras at intersections, we were told they would only be installed to catch those running red lights - to protect the general welfare of the people at large. Now we have cameras everywhere, in neighbourhoods, shops, parking lots, you name it, the eye is there, urban denizens know, rurals are just now popping the cherry. Some express relief that, well, these where for "incidental" reasons. Shops must protect their wares, parking lots could be cesspools of illicit goings-on, etc., etc. . Now Homeland Security will be in charge of a federal network to incorporate these installed monitors. Part of this is mentioned in the month-old Intel reform bill, but it's roots go deeper - back to the Infrastructure / transportation appropriations bill passed in the mid 90's wherein money was alloted for cameras on highways.

Ready for your National ID card? You get to be big brother's bitch when, in 17 months, new smartcard Driver's Id's will be linked to a federal database containing much personal information. How, exactly it will be implemented is being kept in wraps in case of public outcry. Just like Iraq, we'll be in another f*ck-up and people will simply have to wag their heads and say,"Well nothing can be done about it now, we may as well take it."

Enjoy!

Reply #6 Top

Reply #5 By: Deference - 1/13/2005 11:17:47 PM
Now we have cameras everywhere, in neighbourhoods, shops, parking lots,


You need to start getting your facts straight. parking lots, malls and shops AIN'T the federal government. That's PRIVATE installations.

Reply #5 By: Deference - 1/13/2005 11:17:47 PM

Rhetoric Award to Deference for taking the decision to the extreme!! What part of "case by case" did you not understand?

You sound like an attorney! Guess what, they *lie* for a living. "Case by case" is legal b.s. for "we're going to say screw interpreting the law, we're just gonna' make whatever ruling we want - in this case and the next!"


And just what do *you* think is case-by case law? What your quoting is NOT what they do, NOR is it what case by case means.
Reply #7 Top
That's PRIVATE installations.

Yeah, scary, huh? Non-public areas will be admitted to the network on a "voluntary" basis. I wonder what type of incentives will be used to encourage small businesses to participate in this program...more tax breaks?

And just what do *you* think is case-by case law?

There is no such thing as "case-by case". As I've mentioned, each ruling sets a precedent which affects further rulings and even our laws. A prime example would be Roe v. Wade, which effectively made abortion legal by it's precedent. So when the court says "case-by-case" they are really saying, "Fuck what's on the books, this is an isolated incident wherein I give "X" reason to rule as I please, at least until the next "incident" occurs." A consolidation of power and changing law from the bench violates the spirit of our seperation of powers and creates a lopsided government...oh well...all so we can stop "crime" from occuring in the can. I can't wait for those cameras to be pointed at my stall - I'll piss on every one of them.