COL Gene COL Gene

Save Social Security from George W. Bush!

Save Social Security from George W. Bush!

Lets consider some added ways to fund the system!

Another major priority of the Bush administration appears to be Social Security. President Bush and his staff have been closed mouth as to the exact proposals they plan to recommend. Now the camel's nose is beginning to appear under the tent.

First we heard that the 2% diversion of worker Social Security taxes to private accounts might be recommended. That was immediately followed by where is the money to come from to allow Social Security taxes to be diverted into private accounts? Again the answer begins to appear by Mr. Bush saying no tax increases to pay for the transition cost to partially privatize the system. Now we are hearing a 4% option which would double the amount of the transition funds required and again no real explanation as to where these monies would come from.

Within the last several days we have heard about increasing the retirement age and cutting back benefits more significantly in the out years to pay for the transition costs. That also seems to imply that Bush intends to borrow the transition costs and repay them at some future time by reduced payouts and increased retirement age. Who will pay the interest on any borrow transition funding? In other words it looks as if he is proposing the very same solution he has for everything else and that is borrow and pay some time in the future.

Many people believe that the federal government misspent some of their Social Security taxes and that is the reason why the trust fund is not large enough to cover the baby boomer retirement. Some years ago, I obtained my parents Social Security lifetime statements and compared the amount of tax they and their employers paid over the years with the money they received from Social Security. This analysis made it crystal clear why the Social Security trust fund is not large enough to deal with the baby boomers. Although my parents were covered by Social Security from its inception my mother in the 18 years that she drew Social Security received 20 times more in benefits than both she and her employers paid into the system. My father, who received Social Security for 26 years, got about 27 times more money than he and his employers paid into the system.

So before we become too critical of how our Social Security taxes have been used lets take a look at who has received them. No investment, including the Bush equity plan for Social Security, would have generated the income necessary to pay 20 to 30 times the amount contributed to the system. In fact when I looked at my parents Social Security statements I found that during the 30s 40s 50s and 60s the amount paid into the system was very small. Thus, even if it had been invested in equities the way George W. Bush is suggesting, they still would not have had nearly enough money to receive what they got from the Social Security System. In addition, where would the account maintenance fees come from? That is certainly a question that needs to be asked of President Bush. For the small taxpayer even today, an investment of five or six hundred dollars per year will see a great deal of the added income that Bush is touting as a solution paid to investment bankers. How will that help the workers making an average income? Today the White House admitted that the creation of the individual accounts Bush wants will not solve the funding needs of Social Security.

We should be looking at other ways to resolve the funding issue with Social Security. All we're looking at is what Bush proposed. When the President selected the members of the Social Security Commission he made sure all the members shared his notion of the individual accounts and other possible suggestions were not considered. Below are specific alternative suggestions to provide the funding necessary for Social Security without borrowing more money:



Stop any attempt to extend Social Security benefits to illegal aliens.

Continue the gradual increase of full retirement to age 70.

Consider limiting the payout to retirees with non-Social Security income above $150,000 per year. When a retired couple has non-Social Security income above $150,000 per year (index this amount each year by cost of living), the benefits under Social Security would end at the point when the individual’s contribution had been completely returned to the taxpayer. For example, if an individual during their lifetime paid $70,000 in Social Security taxes, excluding their employer contribution, their Social Security payments would terminate if their non-Social Security income exceeded the maximum amount when they reach a total payout of $70,000 in this example.

Should a retiree’s non-Social Security income fall below the maximum amount, the Social Security payments would resume based on their original entitlement so long as their non-Social Security income remained below the maximum amount.

Re-examine the option to set aside 2% or 4% of their Social Security tax to individual accounts. Issues to be evaluated should include:

Evaluate whether or not the creation of these individual accounts will make Social Security solvent. If the creation of these individual accounts does not solve he funding issues of Social Security, then why create massive change to the existing system? Look at the Transition costs to supplant the removal of the younger workers 2 % or 4% of their taxes into individual accounts. Develop realistic estimates as to the transition costs. Identify the source needed to fund this transition amount before deciding to implement this change without borrowing more money.

Consider the impact on a worker who selects the private account option wherein the value of their account at the time of retirement was less than the total benefits that would be paid under the traditional Social Security amount. Would there be a provision to subsidize the payment of the amount received under the individual retirement option to bring it equal to the traditional Social Security benefit?

Evaluate an alternative to the individual equity account that would allow portions of the Social Security Trust Fund to be invested in stock market index funds. This would provide the advantage of increased earnings equity investments produce without the high cost to maintain millions of small accounts that would be required under the individual account concept. This idea has been successfully used by every state pension fund of the United States as well as many large corporate pension plans. Lift the income limit upon which Social Security taxes are paid to include all earned income similar to the current Medicare tax. This additional revenue would increase the Trust Fund and with the higher earnings from investing in equities should fund the system without borrowing more money!

8,658 views 32 replies
Reply #26 Top
Lee1776

I will have to try and get that % UP! I just asked the question about subsidizing the accounts. I too believe you must accept the outcomes of the choices we make. I do believe the issue of the fees on these small accounts needs an answer. The cost to maintain millions of individual accounts will be high relative to the amount the average person will invest at 2 or 4%. We also need to come up with the funding before stepping off into the blue!
Reply #27 Top
Reply #24 By: Citizen whoman69 - 1/6/2005 7:43:05 PM
Another interesting post by terpfan1980 and drmiler, who simply blow the topic off with drivel and no substance. You just label liberal and leave.


I note you've not commented at all in my prior posts on this subject matter, where you might find I'm not that far from solutions you may --- shudder --- even agree with.

Try reading and commenting there.
Reply #28 Top
I note you've not commented at all in my prior posts on this subject matter, where you might find I'm not that far from solutions you may --- shudder --- even agree with.

Try reading and commenting there.


Fair enough, tell me the names of the threads or post a link and I'll take a look see.
Reply #29 Top
Fair enough, tell me the names of the threads or post a link and I'll take a look see.


Blog is: here

Threads: AARP and (others) fear-mongering on Social Security

Social Security, Lobbyists already hard at work

Bush plans: Social Security Formula Weighed (from Wash Post)

Reforming Social Security (why we must...)

Excellent column on Social Security Reform, and more...

This last one included this:

"Insightful" rating bonus to Sen. Graham. The plan he is proposing is very similar to suggestions I personally made in a post-election e-mail to Pres. Bush and Vice President Cheney (which I'm sure was simply forwarded to staffers for a quick non-response).

Raising the current income limit on the FICA tax is a very quick and simple fix to get a lot of revenue into the Social Security system in a hurry. It hurts upper income people, but not in a bad way, and would definitely be something that the populace can support (as it would be seen as a "soak the rich" type grab for revenue). It gets back to the idea of a "flat tax" system where everyone pays the same percentage of their income for every dollar of income they make. The current cap makes no sense in that it serves only to keep the government from taking "too much" revenue from contributors to social security, which I guess was intended to make social security seem more like an insurance program -- something it hasn't been in many years now.

The other parts of Graham's proposal are obviously (as noted in Novak's column) intended to drive up support from the liberal side. Bringing in any "name" Democrat would go a long way to making the proposal bi-partisan, and easier to sell to constituents.



You could also take a detour here: Bring back fiscal sanity - PLEASE!!!
Budget bill has $15.8B in extras
if you are so inclined.


If you want info from other sites, there's this: www.dbsforums.com where I had started a thread with this title: The bigger issue: social security...., which included this info:

This is one of the biggest issues facing us in the next several decades.

The "because the current Consumer Price Index overstates inflation" worries me since Greenspan has been so hawkish in trying to control inflation that he has helped to create recessions in the past. Ignoring that though....


How should the problem be solved? Raise retirement age again? Will that work given a lot of employers tendencies to shy away from hiring or keeping older, typically more well-compensated, employees? (Why hire older, when you can hire younger, cheaper, and train to fit?!, or so it seems for many employers).


Personally, (hope Dan Collins is paying attention here), I'd rather see it fixed in a combination of different ways:

1. Take social security taxes/contributions out of EVERY dollar of income, rather than just the first X amount of the Y income levels. I don't recall current numbers, but at somewhere near 85k per year, Social Security contributions are "maxed out" and are no longer collected from an employee. That holds rather the employee makes 84k per year, or 184k per year. Only the first X amount is clipped for Social Security, and the rest is left alone (or is simply taxed for every other tax).
My thoughts are that if you make money, you pay the contribution, no matter how much you make.

2. Needs test social security. If you have more than 24k of income, your social security payments are reduced, and the reduction scales up dependent upon your income level. At more than 120k of income (indexed for inflation in future years), your social security benefits are suspended until your income drops below that level.
Review income levels monthly and yearly to determine benefit levels so that someone that has an immediate need for benefits can get them quickly.

Between both items above, we move social security back into being an INSURANCE PROGRAM (which it originally was) and away from being an entitlement program.

People should get benefits if *needed*, but not simply because they paid into the system. They should be using 401-Ks, company/employer retirement plans, and other means of paying for their retirements.

Those that need social security should get it, but those that have enough income and no immediate need for the money should let it sit for as long as possible.
Reply #30 Top
If you look at my suggestions you will see that I suggest the following:

Increase the retirement age. Simple fact- people are living longer.

Increase the money comming into the trust fund by taxing all earned income

Invest the added revenue generated from taxing all earned income ( earned income above $90,000) in Stock Index Funds. That provides the benefits of highet potential earnings from equity investments while avoiding the added expense of maintaining millions of small accounts.

Apply a means test to the Social Security Benefits to protect the Social Security Benefits for those that NEED it to live in their "Golden Years".

This solution does not add more debt that would add more cost in the form of interest on the borrowed money to convert the system to these small individual accounts and has worked in EVERY State Pension system in this country! Why not for Social Security????????
Reply #32 Top

Reply #30 By: COL Gene - 1/7/2005 10:02:59 AM
If you look at my suggestions you will see that I suggest the following:

Increase the retirement age. Simple fact- people are living longer.


Sorry, I disagree here. 65 is old enough, even though I concede that people are living longer lives.

Seriously, at agre 65, the average employee will have been working from approximately age 16 on. To make it easy, if we say age 15, then you can quickly do the math and see that the average employee will have worked 50 years to reach retirement.

It may seem trivial to raise the retirement age to 67, with early retirement at 65, but that's 2 fewer years that someone that has worked all their lives will have to spend with their family if they so choose.

Note, I'm not against people being able to work longer, I'm against people having to work longer.

Also, you'd have to deal with the issue of age-based discrimination in this country where older, typically higher salaried or wage-compensated employees are phased out in favor of younger ones, leaving these older employees stuck trying to get jobs at McDonalds, Walmart, or wherever they can happen to find a job for that last 15 - 17 years of their employment cycle (in many cases).



Reply #30 By: COL Gene - 1/7/2005 10:02:59 AM
Increase the money comming into the trust fund by taxing all earned income


See my prior comments on same. On this point I agree and have stated such in many cases.



Reply #30 By: COL Gene - 1/7/2005 10:02:59 AM
Invest the added revenue generated from taxing all earned income ( earned income above $90,000) in Stock Index Funds. That provides the benefits of highet potential earnings from equity investments while avoiding the added expense of maintaining millions of small accounts.


I'd make Index Funds one area for possible investment, but not the only area. Participants should have several reasonable choices. Not 100s, but perhaps a dozen or so choices which offer pre-blended accounts to make life easier on the participants. Those pre-blended accounts should be highly diversified and be invested in literally dozens, if not 100's of companies so that no one stock would be adversely affecting the entire fund.

Choices should include Real Estate Funds, Bond Funds, Hi-cap stocks, Mid-cap, etc. Typical 401k type choices.

Note that I'm not in favor of allowing direct investment into any individual stocks.



Reply #30 By: COL Gene - 1/7/2005 10:02:59 AM
Apply a means test to the Social Security Benefits to protect the Social Security Benefits for those that NEED it to live in their "Golden Years".


I've said the same thing.

Social Security started as an insurance program. It should be returned to that format, or at least as close there-to as possible.