Understanding Moral Issues

Polygyny as a moral issue is of no concern; but it is in the realm of subjugating — men in the case of polyandry— women and children, just as in the potential of subjugation in a monogamous marriage. It is, of course, often argued that polygamy as well as homosexual marriage, has little effect on the great house that our founding fathers built and is not worth the prevailing dissension, in spite of the religious moralists fear that the house of God is in shambles because of these abominations — without equally targeting the abomination of the divorce rate.

On the other hand, common sense moral law would stipulate that any departure from the good of society, however seemingly private, exploiting the weak and defenseless is the business of society. Other than criminal abuse cases, protecting the weak in private enclaves of marriage between a man and a woman — admittedly difficult to ascertain — that may involve other means of psychological fear or conditions bordering on enslavement, it is nonetheless imperative that draconian inquiry or laws be forged — as was the case for Utah to enter the union — to violate so-called privacy. This is no different from the ASPCA intervening in behalf of abused pets, provided a tangible lead is furnished to alert officials.

Most of us believe that because of the concept of free will that we should “let live” those who choose a lifestyle as long as essential principles of law and tranquility are not disrupted; many, however, transcend this to the disruption of personal beliefs and conscience. For instance, the social wariness concerning homosexuality should not be a religious issue, particularly when there exists cogent conjecture that Jesus himself and his disciples could well have been of that persuasion. At any rate the religious argument is irrelevant. What should be the concern in this country — what with the power of persuasion in the media, particularly of entertainment — that not all enter this lifestyle freely but are trapped by physical make-up and forlornness and appears to be on the rise. One cannot argue with choice if it is made rationally and free of fear, but how can one tell without freedom of information? The same holds true for the “moral majority” who could very well be voting out of fear and misinformation.

In addition, choice can be dangerous if it is contaminated by false gods and circumstances. A young woman in poverty contemplating abortion, might not be an agent of choice so much as victimized by “no other choice” compulsion. A young, slim lad frustrated in the slow development of muscle and bombarded by machismo in film and sports might convince himself he is gay, blocking out alternatives; a fat, ugly lass never on a date might presumptively commiserate with another of her condition and engage in the only lovemaking available. Is it not the duty of a moral society to broaden alternatives for those thus victimized?

If, however, the house of our founding fathers is undermined by the sheer weight of devious choices, there should be a defining preemptive action to stop the tsunami of quaint, individuated values. For instance, what if the right to bear arms got out of hand to the degree of the wild west? What if hunters became an overwhelming majority and wiped out wild life as the gun freaks of the bison era? What if abortion became so widespread in the name of choice that the American population began to implode? Or worse, gays became the mainstream? What if the American majority became Islamic or Christian right? Or the corporate realm ruled the nation by edict from a court of billionaires, leaving fair labor, small business and the family farm in its wake ? Or the current political bias of a professional army can do no wrong caused a military coup? What if redneck Mississippi or waspish Massachusetts became the center of American politics? Is it not conceivable that the fever pitch of sports could degrade into violence for its own sake? What if the advertising and entertainment industries continued the runaway train toward total Dionysian destruction? Would there then be a call for the confrontation of moral issues, lest the house of our fathers crumble?

 

Copyright © 2004 Richard R. Kennedy All rights reserved. Revised: January 4, 2005.

http://stevendedalus.joeuser.com

 

 

10,576 views 34 replies
Reply #1 Top
Excellent article steven. This belief that the mere existence of behavior that some consider amoral somehow rubs off on them is very strange to me. I think banning rudeness makes more sense than banning gay marriage. At least you could argue that rude people directly effect others lives. I use to own a cabinet company, and I once had a customer demand that I finish the bottom and backs of her kitchen cabinets. She said she couldn’t sleep knowing there was bare wood were she couldn’t see it. I demanded full payment and recommended therapy.

I am unconvinced that anyone can choose his or her sexual orientation no matter the circumstances. I could see departures to satisfy certain needs but not a complete re-wiring of the brain. These individuals would still be attracted to the opposite sex.

Laws that ban what’s in a person’s head and hearts are the real danger. A Christian could argue that just the existence of other religions adversely affects them. Only behaviors that directly affect others without their consent are societies concern, not behavior that supposedly affect society as a whole. The statement For the good of the community has way to many interpretations to be a fair and just policy.
Reply #2 Top
Understanding Moral Issues

By: stevendedalus
Posted: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 on http://stevendedalus.joeuser.com/
Message Board: Politics wiped out wild life as the gun freaks of the bison era?


Excellent article all the way to this line. The bison were wiped out because of *mens* inherent greed . They were wiped out because *men/women* wanted their pelts so bad that they didn't care what it did to the bison. You going to try and blame the shortage of beaver on gun freaks?
BTW most *gun freaks* as you call us don't kil indescriminately. Personally I usually only kill what I'll eat. There are a *few* exceptions such as snakes and rats.
Reply #3 Top

A young, slim lad frustrated in the slow development of muscle and bombarded by machismo in film and sports might convince himself he is gay, blocking out alternatives; a fat, ugly lass never on a date might presumptively commiserate with another of her condition and engage in the only lovemaking available


hmmm...having once been a young slim lad who, for a time, was an odds-on favorite in taking the 'cant grow facial hair for shit' title away from dylan, i dont see either of these as plausible much less possible.  youre surely not trying to claim that physical traits that our culture considers unattractive are the root cause of homosexuality?  (and, if so, howdya splain rock hudson or beautiful lesbians?)

the reason it seems there are more gay people now than 40 years ago isnt because its become some sorta fad, but that it's no longer acceptable to persecute homosexuals outright. 


Or the corporate realm ruled the nation by edict from a court of billionaires, leaving fair labor, small business and the family farm in its wake


four words: wal-mart, archer daniels midland.

Reply #4 Top

The bison were wiped out because of *mens* inherent greed


they were wiped out to deprive the plains tribes a means of sustinence and to permit railroads to operate. 

Reply #5 Top

Reply #4 By: kingbee - 1/9/2005 4:12:18 PM
The bison were wiped out because of *mens* inherent greed



they were wiped out to deprive the plains tribes a means of sustinence and to permit railroads to operate.


Just a fancy way of saying men's inherent greed. Permit RR to operate. Why? To line someones pocket IE: greed.
Reply #6 Top
the reason it seems there are more gay people now than 40 years ago isnt because its become some sorta fad, but that it's no longer acceptable to persecute homosexuals outright.


I personally think it is a fad. When movies like "In and Out" says the main character is Gay because he talks a cretin way and like one type of music does not help. I have seen many TV specials on the gay life styles (it seems to be the latest TV fab). One thing that has repeatedly been shown is young gay men needing to take VIAGRA before they go out at night to get excited. These guys are not gay, because if they were, they would not need VIAGRA to get it up. These guys are just buying into the latest fad in order to be in that in crowd.

You may think I'm uninformed, but the only reason why my best friend's brother was gay, at a young age, was because he was a little bit of a loner that girls rejected repeatedly. One day an older gay man started to show him some affection and a new life style that excepted him with open arms. A lifestyle that tore his life apart (not from his family, but reality, drugs and happiness) It took him a few years of mentally aging to get out from under this older mans influence. After that he really could see that he and many of his gay friends was not really sexually attracted to men. A girl finally showed some interest in him and zoom, now he considers those gay years of his life the worst. He was the one who pointed out to me about the VIAGRA affect for gays. Even now he works part time trying to help youths from falling into the same trap that took him.

Sorry but in my opinion it is a fad.

That's My Two Cents
Reply #7 Top
Why? To line someones pocket IE: greed.


Actually no, but unless you want to get into a discussion on the railroads....I'd be happy to explain why it was not to line someones pocket.
Reply #8 Top
Reply #7 By: sandy2 - 1/9/2005 10:53:37 PM
Why? To line someones pocket IE: greed.


Actually no, but unless you want to get into a discussion on the railroads....I'd be happy to explain why it was not to line someones pocket.


Excuse me, but *someone* is making a profit. Yes? If not why do they operate?
And if they are making a profit then *someone's* pocket is getting lined. No matter what you say. If they aren't making a profit then they are operating at a loss which means they would be going or gone bankrupt. That is just simple economics.
Reply #9 Top

the only reason why my best friend's brother was gay, at a young age, was because he was a little bit of a loner that girls rejected repeatedly. One day an older gay man started to show him some affection and a new life style that excepted him with open arms


if there'd been only one woman on earth and she was celibate, i wouldnt have had any interest in guys.  i highly doubt any other hetero males would switch teams outta loneliness, rejection, etc.--no matter how friendly, attractive, supportive, generous, etc. their male companions might be.   


One thing that has repeatedly been shown is young gay men needing to take VIAGRA before they go out at night to get excited.


so....straight men who take viagra do so cuz they arent excited by their female partners?  any men who take viagra without really having a medical need are doing so for the same reason they do coke, amphetamines or amyl nitrate as an adjunct to sex: theyre pleasure junkies or obsessively narcissistic.

Reply #10 Top
if there'd been only one woman on earth and she was celibate, i wouldnt have had any interest in guys. i highly doubt any other hetero males would switch teams outta loneliness, rejection, etc.--no matter how friendly, attractive, supportive, generous, etc. their male companions might be.


It is intresting that in jails people turn to gay rape as a means of sexual activity, and though I can't speak on that or on being gay, the drive for sexual activity may drive many people to gayness.
Reply #11 Top

in jails people turn to gay rape as a means of sexual activity


rape isnt sex. 

Reply #12 Top
Even now he works part time trying to help youths from falling into the same trap that took him.
I like your 2 cents! Though DNA dictates one's leanings, it seems reasonable to assume that others are conditioned by circumstances.
howdya splain rock hudson
I did a while ago--look it up--but I must confess I found it incomprehensible that any man--slim or otherwise--could compete with Liz Taylor!
Reply #13 Top

I found it incomprehensible that any man--slim or otherwise--could compete with Liz Taylor


better even the most annoyingly virginal doris day on the most plastic doris day of her existence than the other alternative. (if you dont mind, please gimme a hint as to the title of your post about hudson...i musta missed it.)

Reply #14 Top

rape isnt sex.


It involves sex, it's sexual, and unless these men would normally rape other men, it sounds pretty gay do sexual things with another man. Sure, they'd do them to women too, so they're either bisexual or bi-curious.

Reply #15 Top

It involves sex, it's sexual


ask any woman (or man for that matter) whos been raped just how sexual it was.  

rape is battery that involves sexual organs rather than a bat or a tire iron or fists and other parts of the body.  in prison (or any similar situation) same-sex rape is a tool to establish domination or to humiliate (heteroseexual rape is the same). 

to the best of my knowledge, pantomiming same-sex mating is a social mechanism thats common to all vertebrates altho only the primates seem to actually engage in copulation rather than merely gesticular mimicry.  social mamals (like wolves or rats) simulate same-sex mating behavior to establish hierarchal ranking in the pack or colony.

Reply #16 Top

unless these men would normally rape other men, it sounds pretty gay


and if they dont', it doesn't?   what are you thinking?

Reply #17 Top
Homosexuality means that you’re attracted to and could fall in love with the same sex. I know some gay couples and they’re just a much in love as any hetero relationship. People have sex for sexes sake all the time. Doesn’t mean there in love with rubber or there hand. Women have sex other women all the time, but unless they’re gay there still turned on by men. Doesn’t mean their bisexual ether. For women it’s a lot shorter trip than it is for men. How many times have you been to a bar and seen two women dancing together provocatively. See anyone complaining or shouting lesbo’s, no. It’s perfectly acceptable in today’s society. Heterosexual men in prison may have sex with a man but there’s still a poster of a woman in his cell. I suppose your sexual orientation is defined by what you’re thinking about when experiencing sexual stimulus.
Reply #18 Top
I wouldn't have sex with a man... so it sounds pretty homosexual.
Reply #19 Top

Reply #13 By: kingbee - 1/11/2005 5:29:51 AM
I found it incomprehensible that any man--slim or otherwise--could compete with Liz Taylor



better even the most annoyingly virginal doris day on the most plastic doris day of her existence than the other alternative. (if you dont mind, please gimme a hint as to the title of your post about hudson...i musta missed it.)


heyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy I hadda huge crush on doris......
Reply #20 Top

Reply #19 By: Moderateman - 1/11/2005 2:50:57 PM

Reply #13 By: kingbee - 1/11/2005 5:29:51 AM
I found it incomprehensible that any man--slim or otherwise--could compete with Liz Taylor



better even the most annoyingly virginal doris day on the most plastic doris day of her existence than the other alternative. (if you dont mind, please gimme a hint as to the title of your post about hudson...i musta missed it.)


heyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy I hadda huge crush on doris......


Shame on you.
Reply #21 Top

Extending your logic, steven, we should do away with marriage entirely because it involves a commitment from one to the other, and because SOME individuals abuse the perceived "power" they get out of a marriage relationship.


The government's role in protecting citizens should be strictly limited to providing remedies for those whose rights are denied them without due process (as is the case in many of the publicized polygamous relationships, although, it is impossible to tell if it is true even of a majority of them). The idea that a submissive relationship is wrong when entered into voluntarily by the submissive party and without force is a deeply flawed argument. People can and do choose such "submissive" relationships all the time, and have every right to enter into such relationships. BUT, they also have the right to protection from being pressured into such relationships against their will, and there we agree.


Your words, as usual, do inspire thought. But I don't think you've hit the nail on the head entirely with this one.

Reply #22 Top
Shame on you


sniff sniff YOU yelled at meeeeeeeeeeeeeee waaaaaaaaaaa
Reply #23 Top

One thing that has repeatedly been shown is young gay men needing to take VIAGRA before they go out at night to get excited.


Where the hell has this been shown?


Cheers

Reply #24 Top
Reply #22 By: Moderateman - 1/11/2005 4:22:10 PM
Shame on you


sniff sniff YOU yelled at meeeeeeeeeeeeeee waaaaaaaaaaa


Not yet I haven't. But I can if you really want me to.
Reply #25 Top
Reply #23 By: jeblackstar - 1/11/2005 4:49:13 PM
One thing that has repeatedly been shown is young gay men needing to take VIAGRA before they go out at night to get excited.



Where the hell has this been shown?


Let see.

1. HBO, Real Sex
2. TLC, "The new San Fran. Society" mostly about the new generation of Gays in that city after AID's destruction of the older generation.
3. One more Special that was on NBC, that followed a young gay man into the New York City gay set.

Those are the ones I remember off the top of my head. If you want I'll call Sam (my best friends brother), who enlightened me to notice it if I'm watching any of those types of documentaries, for more of a list and I will even post one the warning pamphlets he gives out.

That's My Two Cents