DrJBHL

Join Date 04/2002

+3701

Disturbing news: Hardware requirement for Update 24H2

AI will require CPU POPCNT Support; SSE4.2 or SSE4a.

External Link

For a deep dive into the expected changes to Windows 11, here's an excellent article sent to me by my trusty source Hankers of the Frozen North. Thanks, buddy. You've inspired me in many ways, and have been a great mentor. I expanded on your tip because of the appearance of subsequent additional important articles quoted here.

The Windows 11's 24H2 Update will require hardware that supports POPCNT (SSE4.2 or SSE4a). I remember predicting in a prior article regarding W12, just this kind of turn of events just as W11 upgrade from W10 had requirements re chip, etc.

From the title, it's clear what that requirement is. If you update to 24H2 without your chip having the required instructions, your computer will crash on boot.

So, how to check if your computer's CPU can handle the 24H2 Update? Neowin published an article dealing with just that, although the gHacks article linked goes through the same explanation.

"Option 1: CPU-Z

Download CPU-Z from the official website, run it, and check the Instruction box. Look for SSE4A if you use an AMD processor and SSE4.2 if you use an old Intel chip.

Option 2: Official websites

Go to Settings > System > About and check the "Processor" box. If you use Intel, go to this website and search for your processor model. See the "Instruction Set Extension" and make sure it mentions SSE4.2.

AMD does not have a single page where you can find specs for every chip the company ever released. Therefore, use third-party websites for CPU tracking, like TechPowerUP. Look for SSE4A in the list of supported instructions or instruction extensions.

Option 3: A simple third-party tool

Enthusiasts have already created apps that can let you run checks and see what specs are missing in your computer. This open-source utility with a witty name, WhyNotWinAI, can show you if your chip supports the POPCNT instruction. You can download it from GitHub for free. Look for the "CPU supports POPCNT instruction" line.

If your computer does not support the necessary instruction, this is the end of the road for you. With that said, we will have to wait for the official Windows 11 24H2 release to see if the change sticks around. Meanwhile, you can learn how to install Windows 11 on unsupported hardware using our guide."

- Taras Buria, Neowin

If your computer's CPU does not fulfill the POPCNT demand, I'd strongly advise not doing the update. Of course, we can expect hackers to try to bypass this requirement, but I would not place much faith in assurances (theirs or others) that their hack will work, because this requirement is quoted as being not bypassable.

Have a great weekend, folks. Here's mine...with the required SSE4.2 as my CPU is Intel.

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Phew.. I am on old Ryzen 5 2600 and look like it support those two.

Thank you,

Basj,
Stardock Community Assistant

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DrJBHL

Join Date 04/2002

+3701

Quoting basj,

reply 1

Phew..

I am on old Ryzen 5 2600 and look like it support those two.

Thank you,

Basj,
Stardock Community Assistant

Glad to hear it!

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LightStar

Join Date 12/2002

+1417

Typical Microsoft.

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I am all set up too as my PC was bought Brand new about 2 months ago, all Hardware requirements matched.

You article is certainly right Doc, ingenious peeps will negate the need for such HW requirements with 3rd party tools and apps, just like they did with the original HW Requirements for Win 11 (TPM Module etc..)

"Not Bypassable" is just the phrase they need to peak there interest, Almost Everything MS does that peeps do not like can be reversed. I remember all the fuss about HW Reqs for Win 11, a lot of doom and gloom in forums from peeps who thought it was the end of the line for there PC, even though it ran Win 10 flawlessly, Then Rufus was modified to remove the need for all those HW Reqs, I even posted a Tutorial. You have even linked a similar thing Doc Now. The boot menu can always be manipulated too, so as not to crash your PC, the check will just be bypassed.

I still Have my old PC , the one i was running 2 X Win 11 OSs on, even though it did not meet HW Reqs. I will Install 22H4 on that PC(when released) and on a older Laptop, to dismiss any concerns. Anything MS does can be changed, the only way to stop this is by Locking every single file, and although this would stop modifications from 3rd party apps, it would stop the OS from working and interacting with 3rd party apps and programs, and as such, would not work as an Operating System.

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Quoting ,

quoting post

Of course, we can expect hackers to try to bypass this requirement, but I would not place much faith in assurances (theirs or others) that their hack will work, because this requirement is quoted as being not bypassable.

Regarding it "not being bypassable" I expect there will be a strong effort to prove them wrong.

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DrJBHL

Join Date 04/2002

+3701

Quoting Victechnical,

reply 5

Regarding it "not being bypassable" I expect there will be a strong effort to prove them wrong.

If it's a matter of the CPU architecture, as I understand it, it'll be like them trying to turn a supermarket into a bridge but there isn't much of a chance they'll succeed.

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Quoting Victechnical,

reply 5

Quoting ,

quoting post

Regarding it "not being bypassable" I expect there will be a strong effort to prove them wrong.

And So It Begins. Any and every System File can be edited in any OS, 22H4 will be No different. Right now individuals and Groups will be reading various articles, and there minds will already be thinking "If They Do This, We Will Do That". They will be solving the issues prior to the issues becoming real.

Victechnical , You Are 1000% Correct as Its Already Begun. Next Year we will be seeing Topics all over the Net, showing 22H4 working on Ancient Systems that have been modified to run it. We seen the same with Windows 11, Its like Sport to these peeps. Some of us do not like being told by MS, what PCs we can run there software on, so we do something about it, this is the way of the computing world, always has been.

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Here is a list of Processors which support POPCNT from Wikipedia. It looks like the earliest supported processors go back to 2007 (seventeen years ago).

Intel
Silvermont processors (SSE4.1, SSE4.2 and POPCNT supported)
Goldmont processors (SSE4.1, SSE4.2 and POPCNT supported)
Goldmont Plus processors (SSE4.1, SSE4.2 and POPCNT supported)
Tremont processors (SSE4.1, SSE4.2 and POPCNT supported)
Penryn processors (SSE4.1 supported, except Pentium Dual-Core and Celeron)
Nehalem processors and Westmere processors (SSE4.1, SSE4.2 and POPCNT supported, except Pentium and Celeron)
Sandy Bridge processors and newer (SSE4.1, SSE4.2 and POPCNT supported, include Pentium and Celeron)
Haswell processors and newer (SSE4.1, SSE4.2, POPCNT and LZCNT supported)

AMD
K10-based processors (SSE4a, POPCNT and LZCNT supported)
"Cat" low-power processors
Bobcat-based processors (SSE4a, POPCNT and LZCNT supported)
Jaguar-based processors and newer (SSE4a, SSE4.1, SSE4.2, POPCNT and LZCNT supported)
Puma-based processors and newer (SSE4a, SSE4.1, SSE4.2, POPCNT and LZCNT supported)
"Heavy Equipment" processors (SSE4a, SSE4.1, SSE4.2, POPCNT and LZCNT supported)
Bulldozer-based processors
Piledriver-based processors[18]
Steamroller-based processors
Excavator-based processors and newer
Zen-based processors (SSE4a, SSE4.1, SSE4.2, POPCNT and LZCNT supported)
Zen+-based processors (SSE4a, SSE4.1, SSE4.2, POPCNT and LZCNT supported)
Zen2-based processors (SSE4a, SSE4.1, SSE4.2, POPCNT and LZCNT supported)
Zen3-based processors (SSE4a, SSE4.1, SSE4.2, POPCNT and LZCNT supported)
VIA
Nano 3000, X2, QuadCore processors (SSE4.1 supported)
Nano QuadCore C4000-series processors (SSE4.1, SSE4.2 supported)
Eden X4 processors (SSE4.1, SSE4.2 supported)
Zhaoxin
ZX-C processors and newer (SSE4.1, SSE4.2 supported)

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My PC is also doomed by 24H2. I am really p++++d off by the cavalry way MS treats its customers.

I am unable to afford a new computer so will be doomed to stay forever with Win 10 Pro.

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DrJBHL

Join Date 04/2002

+3701

Quoting pelaird,

reply 8

Here is a list of Processors which support POPCNT from Wikipedia. It looks like the earliest supported processors go back to 2007 (seventeen years ago).

The Wikipedia may or may not have the full list. CPU-Z is a tiny utility and will give the answer. Tom's hardware notes:

"Windows expert Bob Pony reports on X (formally Twitter) that Windows 11 24H2's new PopCnt instruction requirement cannot be bypassed under any circumstances. PopCnt is a CPU instruction Windows 11 24H2 requires that is not required in outgoing iterations of Windows 11."

The article is quite clear that POPCNT is quite unlike W11's prior requirements which could be finangled. However, while there's room to test for POPCNT in older machines, if your computer is recent it probably has POPCNT. It's so easy to test that risking problems doesn't make sense.

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I cant imagine that computer with a processor that's older than 17 years would run 24H2 very well even if it was compatible. There are a couple of POPCNT emulators, but that sounds very risky even if it would work.

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Chasbo

Join Date 01/2005

+772

I'm all set. Have the required set up. I ran CPU-Z and saw SSE4.2 in, instructions. This is a fairly new computer.

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DrJBHL

Join Date 04/2002

+3701

Quoting pelaird,

reply 11

Quoting Chasbo,

reply 12

I'm all set. Have the required set up. I ran CPU-Z and saw SSE4.2 in, instructions. This is a fairly new computer.

Exactly. A two core abacus from 17 plus years ago won't run 24H2 any more than a three speed Schwinn will beat a Ferrari. And that's reality. No third party software will change the PopCnt W11 24H2 requirement. Period.

If anyone suggests hacking W11 to remove that requirement, he should do it on a site other than an SD one.

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well, since I have a Intel Core 15 4590 running at 3.3 ghz.........I'm stuck on Win 10. And that's ok. I'm quite happy with Windows 10, version 1903. I don't really feel the need to update.

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DrJBHL

Join Date 04/2002

+3701

Quoting 3java3,

reply 14

well, since I have a Intel Core 15 4590 running at 3.3 ghz.........I'm stuck on Win 10. And that's ok. I'm quite happy with Windows 10, version 1903. I don't really feel the need to update.

Until Oct. 14, 2025...that's the end of support for W10. I think I read that continued support will be available for pay, though.

edit: Here's the announcement from Windows Central: https://www.windowscentral.com/software-apps/windows-10/microsoft-announces-paid-subscription-for-windows-10-users-who-want-os-updates-beyond-2025

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Quoting 3java3,

reply 14

well, since I have a Intel Core 15 4590 running at 3.3 ghz.........I'm stuck on Win 10. And that's ok. I'm quite happy with Windows 10, version 1903. I don't really feel the need to update.

This is an example of a perfectly fine processor. I believe it beats the newer Intel Celeron cpu's by a pretty large margin. The funny thing is the Celeron chips are clear to run 24h2.

Edit - it does look that your cpu is clear to run 24h2 without the new boot crash error. It would still requires a few security checks to be bypassed... Basically nothing will change at all with this cpu between now and 24h2.

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Too many times on the net and in forums, the phrase "It Can Not Be Done" is bandied around, then later a fix or workaround in published and all of a sudden "It Can Be Done". POPCNT will be no different. The Article Itself Says "unless they figure out a way to bypass the POPCNT requirement as well." This will happen, and the reason i am so sure is because its happened before, not once but multiple times. Time will tell on this one, just like it did previously.

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Quoting 3java3,

reply 14

well, since I have a Intel Core 15 4590 running at 3.3 ghz.........I'm stuck on Win 10. And that's ok. I'm quite happy with Windows 10, version 1903. I don't really feel the need to update.

Windows 10 - 1903 reached end of service on Dec. 8, 2020. You should at least consider updating to Windows 10 - 19045, so that your machine is protected with security updates. Just sayin'...

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Perhaps. Thing is, I like the transparency, the fluent design of the old "Edge" browser. I don't use the new Edge that is based on Chrome. I have a rotation of various browsers, Firefox, Brave and Vivaldi, and to a lesser extent, Pale Moon. And Epic is another. Would be nice to have the weather on the taskbar though. Part of me is a little concerned because in the past I have updated, and got hit with the pinwheel of death that I was afraid was going to brick one of my laptops that I don't really use anymore. Could be that I updated too soon, wheras now that update has been out for quite a while, and there should be no bugs or problems or issues. Perhaps you are right.

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DrJBHL

Join Date 04/2002

+3701

Quoting 3java3,

reply 19

Perhaps you are right.

Actually, he's definitely correct. Using old/not updated software is a rather large vulnerability in your security.

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DrJBHL

Join Date 04/2002

+3701

Quoting naroon1,

reply 17

Too many times on the net and in forums, the phrase "It Can Not Be Done" is bandied around

Bob Pony is a recognized Windows expert.

Again: This PopCnt instruction problem (which is not bypassable) affects very old CPUs - 14 years old or more. The vast majority of computers in use today won't have problems updating to 24H2.

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Uh oh. Decided to update to 22H2, but it seems to be stuck at 94% installed. I sure hope I don't get that "loop" problem, and have to take this pc to a computer store to fix. Not blaming anyone else, ok? It was my decision to upgrade.

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Quoting 3java3,

reply 22

Hopefully it will finish, However it shouldn't take more than an hour. You are updating from 1903 to 22H2 which will require a lot of changes. Sometimes Cumulative updates seem like they're stuck, but at 94% it's probably writing all your info from 1903 so you can roll back if you decide.

If it takes longer than an hour, it's probably stuck. Try rebooting and see if it finishes. If not, cancel the update and use the Windows 10 - 22H2 ISO.

Here is a link to the Windows 10 - 22H2 Media Creation Tool from which you can create an ISO.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-in/software-download/windows10

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The update is done. I am now running Windows 10 22H2, and everything is working fine, as before. So far I don't notice much of a change, other than having news and interests on the taskbar. That and Edge is different, and Edge is not as nice looking as before, but oh well. I wasn't even using the old Edge very much. I tend to go back and forth between Vivaldi and Brave. Thanks, DrJBHL for your input. The update was long overdue!

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Glad everything worked out for you. Vivaldi is my main browser also. I’ve been using it since version 1.

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