Sins 2 Subfaction Personality/Theme Consistency in Design

from Sins2 Forums

As a player of the original Sins all those years ago, I'm liking what I see so far but have some suggestions and thoughts on how subfaction design should be handled and improved upon compared to Rebellion.

Subfactions all need a very clear and recognizable theme and personality. The Rebellion expansion for the first game did this very well for the TEC, all of the unique techs for TEC Loyalists and Rebels had a clear purpose and gave them their own personality and Sins 2 is doing well in this area too.

So far though, TR get 2 unique units/structures and far more unique techs compared to Loyalists which feels a little unfair to me, not necessarily balance wise but in flavour. For TL, I'd like to see them get minefields or a unique version of the Gauss turret. For more unique techs, I think it wouldn't be too imbalanced to give them more techs to improve unit toughness, planet health/regen, trade income etc. Maybe some existing techs for both could become TL exclusive like Pervasive Economy.

For the other factions, I felt that in the previous Rebellion expansion, Advent/Vasari subfaction personality/theme was not quite as well designed as for TEC. Some unique techs seemed bland especially for AL and others didn't seem to fit their subfaction's theme.

For AL, since they are supposed to be continuing their crusade, but in Rebellion their unique techs were more about strengthening culture spread which isn't that strong or interesting on its own. AL may again get a % chance to capture enemy frigates when they try to leave AL owned planets and a Titan that can instantly capture enemy planets. I'd like to see their unique techs expand upon the theme of stealing stuff from the enemy, but not necessarily just ships. They could get a means to steal a % of enemy trade income when they have capital ships near enemy trade ports or use their mind powers to cause insurgencies on enemy planets.

The AR had an interesting theme of religious reforming and of self-sacrifice and rebirth but some of their techs seemed a bit irrelevant and in Sins 2 I hope for greater consistency. Their techs to boost shield regen in culture and shield recharge seemed a bit too generic and their AM regen buff when bombing enemy planets didn't seem to fit them at all. In Sins 2, I'd instead like to see a focus on frigate resurrection and on the ability of dying frigates to boost nearby friendly ships. Wail of the Sacrificed was a cool concept but wierdly implemented and strangely aggressive for a faction who wants to change direction instead of pursuing revenge. If Wail makes a return in Sins 2, I'd like to see it become a defensive ability for the deliverance engine that causes AR planetary population to self-sacrifice to damage invading enemy fleets.

As for the Vasari, the VL were supposed to be packing up and leaving in Rebellion. If stripping planets down to dead asteroids returns, it should be a major investment for resources as well as time, it could be an expensive ability for Starbases.

The VL had a very unique mobility-based theme but this undermined slightly by the VR also buffing mobility by gaining phase-jumping Starbases which I would prefer not to see return. VR were supposed to have a theme of cooperation and warning the other races but some of their unique techs buffed their damage output which was too strong and too aggressive and out of place for them. VR unique techs I feel should stick to the areas of trade, diplomacy, black market etc. and leave military and mobility themed upgrades to the VL.

 

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Reply #1 from Sins2 Forums Top

I agree with the TEC related part, Loyalists could use more unique stuff to differentiate. Like said minefields or additional defense structure. Garrison could be made their specific tech as well.

Advent for sure need more attention as well, IMO they were the least differentiated in Rebellion. Especially Rebels were rather meh, with Loyalists you could at least mind-control ships and take over planets with Titan, which was their cool stuff.

Regarding Vasari, VL should be made even more mobile and maybe by default, not sure about VR, those suggestions sound fine, but i dont think they should lose Starbase Mobilization, as it was their coolest tech, main allure to pick them.

Reply #2 from Sins2 Forums Top

Thank you for this feedback, explaining a stance from the perspective of narrative mechanical cohesion is interesting, I'm curious to see what others think of these ideas

 

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Reply #3 from Sins2 Forums Top

Other changes that can be made are the "little things" such as ship names or the color of the autocannon tracer rounds. I haven't had a chance to submit anything to sit-reps as of this post, but as examples for Sins2:

~TEC-L ships all have "TDN" (trader defense navy) as a prefix. TEC-R ships can have that altered slightly to something like "TRA" (trader reclamation armada).

~Differentiations in the weapons used. For example, the TEC-L's Garda Flak frigate would stick with the Light Autocannon while the TEC-R's Garda Flak would use the Medium Autocannon.

~Some TEC-L structures could be outfitted with PD autocannons, while some TEC-R structures could be outfitted with strikecraft.

~Another option would be to give TEC-L structures the ability to use ship components (via research), while non-capital TEC-R ships could be given the ability to use ship components (via research).

~TEC-L & TEC-R could use different strikecraft (similar to using different corvettes in sins1)

 

As for the advent/vasari; I'd like to see what the devs have in mind before commenting. The TEC have changed in Sins2, so I assume the other factions will have changed a bit too.

Reply #4 from Sins2 Forums Top

It always felt strange to me that the TEC rebel faction had a titan. Rebels always feels due to what is probably star wars bias, that it means starting from small beginnings and gradually growing to be a power. In game it just feels like half the TEC have separated and have the same fleet power. Meaning that they are probably less rebels and more a "militaristic" or separatist faction. Rebels is a term of course that the original TEC would use for the half of the TEC that seems to have separated. The TEC rebels never felt like a rebel movement and more like an part of the empire just got sick of being kicked around and went into full "at any cost" no holes bared moral compromised mode. In other words a pro-war faction rather than an undercover rebel faction.

Reply #5 from Stardock Forums Top

It sounds like you have some great ideas for enhancing the distinctiveness of the different factions in Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion. Adding unique elements to each faction can certainly make the gameplay more interesting and engaging. Let's break down your suggestions and discuss them further:

 

Loyalists:

 

Introducing minefields and additional defense structures could add a layer of strategic depth to the Loyalist faction. These defensive options could complement their playstyle, making them more formidable in defensive situations.

Making the Garrison ability their specific tech could further emphasize their focus on defense and fortification. This could tie into their overall theme and strengths.

Advent:

 

It's true that the Advent faction could benefit from more distinct features. The Rebels and Loyalists within the Advent faction could be further differentiated. Mind-controlling ships and the planet-taking ability of the Titan for the Loyalists do add unique elements that could be expanded upon.

For the Rebels, introducing new and interesting abilities could help set them apart and make them a more compelling choice.

Vasari:

 

Enhancing the mobility of the Vasari Loyalists (VL) faction is a good idea, as it aligns well with their theme of adaptability and subversion. Making them more mobile could encourage hit-and-run tactics and surprise attacks, emphasizing their elusive nature.

Regarding the Vasari Rebels (VR), retaining the Starbase Mobilization ability but introducing additional changes and improvements could strike a balance between their unique tech and their gameplay mechanics.

In addition to these suggestions, it's important to consider the overall balance of the game. When introducing new abilities or tech, ensuring that no faction becomes overpowered or underpowered is crucial for maintaining an enjoyable experience for all players.

 

Ultimately, game development involves a delicate balance between innovation and familiarity. Implementing new features to enhance each faction's uniqueness while preserving the core gameplay mechanics can lead to a more engaging and dynamic gaming experience.

Reply #6 from Sins2 Forums Top

Actually, Advent culture boosting shield regeneration within their culture was a useful ability because if you combined that with Synergy and 5 point defenses, hanger shield boost, each point defense would have 1,700 shield hit points combined with fast shield regeneration, meaning that those 5 point defense would be like the equivalent of 3 to 4 capital ships by themselves.

If an advent play got 5 point defense up and running early game with culture shield regeneration boosting synergy, it's impossible to snipe an advent player early game, which is what they sorely need because advent can be weak early to mid-game, and only become the strongest late game. 

I actually liked the culture boosting shield regen with synergy as it saved my ass almost everytime from a curb-stomp early game when I have to focus on upgrades to get faction strong late game.