Frogboy Frogboy

Discouraged. Is our community as we know it coming to an end?

Discouraged. Is our community as we know it coming to an end?

A large percentage of you who read this are already WinCustomize premium subscribers. You've already done your part to help this site keep going.

But I must say, things are grim this holiday season here. 2 expensive servers are down. We must get 2 new servers in here. We need to get another 2 servers on top of that for redundancy but that can wait a bit. But it's depressing knowing that millions visit this site each month and we've only gotten 156 new subscribers since the subscription drive began. It definitely makes a strong case that perhaps the days of free skins are over. That the skin authors and web masters, who pull their weight, should move towards a more commercial model that benefits primarily those who contribute (skinners, subscribers, and developers). 

My friend Scott (Jark) has much the same problems over at deviantART: http://news.deviantart.com/article/12039/

That is, the problem of having massive MASSIVE traffic but only a tiny fraction of those users paying the bill. Many people think, incorrectly, that massive traffic == money. It doesn't.

I can tell you, those of you who have purchased premium subscriptions here have helped the community in ways that the average user can't possibly fathom.  Premium subscribers combined with the volunteer efforts of this site's administrators (Jafo, Boxxi, DavidK, Treetog, Alexandrie, Kaosati, MikeB, Hippy, and others) are what keep things going.

Without the premium subscriptions, I can tell you right now what would happen.  This site would slowly morph into being a purely Stardock oriented site with bandwidth caps for all users (including Object Desktop users - though theirs would be higher). Support for non-Stardock sections would slowly disappear or be restricted to subscribers only.  The wallpaper section would only be available to those who either have a wallpaper on there that got accepted or subscribers (in all these exaples, anyone with apprentice access or higher would be treated as a subscriber).

There would be banner ads, and things would become vastly more commercial. Instead of a free Christmas suite, it would be a $8 Christmas suite. Instead of free skins, a new system would b eput in place to allow authors to sell their skins as part of te library once they had achieved a certain access level. One-click purchasing by users with the skin authors getting a percent.

That is the commercialized future of skinning. The alternative. It's not necessarily dark and evil. But it is a much different world than what we have now. I suspect many skin authors out there would jump at the chance of being able to get paid for their skins.

I've posted for years that our community is made up of 3 co-equal groups: The skinners, the web masters, and the users.  We webmasters are doing everythign we can.  The skinners have done their part.  The users have to do their part as a collective.  Which means of the 75,000 unique visitors this site gets each day, 500 more of them need to contribute back too.  As the alternative to voluntarily helping will be paying bits and pieces here and there for skins and themes.  The alternative is a smaller community, a more commercialized community but a sustainable one too.

Personally, I hope some balance can be found. While some people think we represent the commercialization of skinning, in reality, we don't. We simply want...must find a sustainable model that allows our community to grow.  We have all seen the instability Deskmod, Skinz.org, and even Customize.org have faced.  The site has grown beyond what Stardock can pay for via Object Desktop sales.  While Stardock's revenue has grown, the traffic to this site has DOUBLED this year.

Like I said, a large percentage of you have already done your part. There's nothing more you can do.  But hopefully, the millions of people who come to this site will have some infintesible number of them that recognize that someone has to pay for all this stuff. 

The end of the year may end up being the end of this site as we know it. Those new machines will be purchased one way or the other. But if Stardock ends up having to pay for any of those two new machines, it's going to come with strings attached. Ones that will certainly benefit subscribers but the casual users of the world will probably not like.

95,992 views 522 replies
Reply #276 Top
Just like some forums where you can't access them until you register, maybe you can't download here until you register. You can see whats here, and if you want to download an account is necessary.
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Reply #277 Top
Seems fair to me, The DJ.
Reply #278 Top
A few ideas:-

The casual visitor cannot download
The account holder can download 10Mb
The subscriber has no download limits as now

Have additional subscriber rates: 2 yrs $20, 1 yr $12, 6 months $7

The shareware versions come with more skins for trial purposes

People need to dip hands in pockets. The ROI cannot be faulted.
Reply #279 Top
*hands everyone their drink of choice* [alcoholic? nah, not necessarily, Just a Dr Pepper here]




Reply #280 Top
#278 by Scribe Fuzzy Logic - 12/11/2003 6:12:46 PM A few ideas:-The casual visitor cannot download The account holder can download 10Mb




Just as I posted, I'm for the 'no downloads for visitors'. But about the 10meg limit--I'm for dropping the 50meg limit, but 10 may be too small. For instance some wallpapers and sysmetrix skins among others are over a meg and upwards to 4. Perhaps 20?
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Reply #281 Top
I see no reason for anyone to have problems registering for a website. Sure, they can abuse it by making new email accounts, but you are at least forcing them to face the choice to pay or not. The multiple accounts thing can be addressed thereafter.

Just point the download links at a registration page for those not logged in and you have patched a *huge* hole in the model. If Stardock wants sales of products and services to pay for this site, people who refuse to register are the LAST people you want to have free access to the content. I doubt you can expect any revenue from such, even in the form of banner clicks.



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Reply #282 Top
I don't think that Stardock wants its sales of products to pay for this site in the least. It *should* be able to be a self sustaining entity in theory. Though that is not about to happen so the sales of Stardock products end up covering the Gorillia share of the expenses.


Reply #283 Top
hehe gorillia
Reply #284 Top
Frankly speaking my wife would have demanded the site be shut down or switched to a total pay site by now if we ran it

And I would not have anything solid in hand to prove any validity beyond personal feelings to hold up to her showing it should continue....

*sigh*...

and that's not even taking an accountant into consideration...
Reply #285 Top
i bought the full stardock package just to help give this site support , i renewed my subscription to the package to continue the support given here.i also got my WC subscription .but actually the share ware version of WB is more than i use,and i know many feel the same way...
i only bought the extra stuff to support this comunity. others probably wont.
so their useing shareware and free skins with no real desire to pitch in and no real need to sign up... cut the amount of freebies or make it to where theres less of the upper end skins available to the non paying public. and stop the dl's fon non registerd's. its great that the site has become so popular .. but if there not gunna pitch in one way or another they should be further restricted in thir ability to access the goodies...
Reply #286 Top
IPlural: has there ever been the idea that paid site membership alone would pay for this place? Kinda hard to believe. When you figure how much the pipe alone costs per month I doubt there are that many people subscribing, even when there is a membership drive.
Reply #287 Top
I have leeched too long... I am number 238.
Reply #288 Top
Time to cap all non-subscribers downloads - period.
Reply #289 Top
BakerStreet: no, but there is and has been that there should be some kind of balance. I can not think that Brad does not have this eating at his mind even while at home at different times. Or Angie, Paul, Randy and all the others who actually take part in the operations of the site. Also those who have Subscribed and will in the future, or purchased Products and cross referenced their registration with the site, those who skin and theme as a means of supporting the site and those who attempt to help others with trouble shooting (even beyond products used for skinning), each and everyone puts something in. But thats just it they all carry everyone who does nothing more than take and demand more as if it is a God given right to do so.

How many times have you read someones post stating to the effect of "The products suck and I only come here for the free skins; It isn't worth my money; I have much better things to spend my money on, and such?

How does it affect you when you put your time and efforts and even money into helping someone you know, or give someone a break and rebuild their computer only to have them complain later, or have them call you within 24 hours to say you did something wrong because they were doing such and such and now it won't boot.

Yet you go back and do so a number of times until you finally get fed up and tell them you can not do it anymore or at least not for free?

Or have you already reached the point where you explain to people that you can not do it for free in the first place because you already know what very well might be in store for you?

It's the same thing but on a different scale...

That is what I meant by my wife would put and end to it because it would eat at me. You don't do anything well if you do it only for money, you have to have some pleasure from it otherwise it is too much like work and when it becomes work then there is a price for your time..

I have a good idea of what the costs of bandwidth are without a doubt

I've explained before pretty much how it works or how I think it works with the site without asking anyone or reading anything to tell me. This is not much different than the networks we support and consult on and do IT over site on as CIO and CTO for various Non-Profit Clinics on the network side of things. Which also includes user habits and such sad to say

The membership drive which is not even spit in the wind compared to the costs of operating the site. Now if it isn't reached it pretty much indicates that the model as stands does not work and never will.

Which lends to asking the question: Why do I do this? and a host of other questions which would be easting at the mind throughout the day, everyday, until some kind of decision was reached. Then people (new visitors) would just have to deal with it...

Those are the reasons behind my comment of my wife telling me to dink it...

But, me being who I am I hold onto the thought that people are going to respond, not all and the goal probably will not be reached, but there are other options to help off set things which can be implemented in the future to help things out.

Also there are some who do have the money to periodically donate the price of a subscription are willing to do so.

Things will come around...
some how...
have to...

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Reply #290 Top

I don't think there any plan of having subscriptions alone pay for the site. Stardock will always pay a chunk of the bill, since the site also surves a good purpose for Stardock. But there is just so much Stardock can affort to pay. The goal has to be for WC subscriptions to at least pay for a bit - a bit more than it does now.

So I do think that the subscription incentive needs to be increased.  Combining some excellent suggestions above, this is what I think:

1 - no more free loaders: unregistered users can't download at all. They can look at screenshots, read comments, etc. But they can't post anything, and they can't download anything.
2 - level 2 users (people who never bought anything) and people below the class Apprentice get a 30 day delay in the skins they can download. When a new skin is posted, they can look at the screenshot but they can't download it until 30 days later.
3 - level 3 users (Stardock customers) and people who are class Apprentice and Master Apprentice get a 7 days delay on skins they can download.
4 - Subscribers and Jouneymen and higher get to download instantly.

I think that would be an incentive. My opinion.

Reply #292 Top
paxx, not sure that would really work. Your level 3 users are the core of the site and the bulk of the money to Stardock. If you made them wait a week, I'am sure they would be upset, and remember what Brad said, Journeyman and above is a small minority of the people on WC, so not many will make it to there. That leaves subscribing as the only other option. Yes that is the goal, to get more people to subscribe but thats almost like holding a gun to there heads. There has to be a better way to get people to subscribe.



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Reply #293 Top
Paxx...I think everything is a great idea except #3 I think Apprentices and Master Apprentices are the bulk of our 'regulars' here so the 7 day rule for them should'nt apply. The other three points I say Yea to.



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Reply #294 Top
very good idea, but i'm kind..., with 20$ they get to download instantly and an Apprentice spend hours on skin and get 7 days delay. But im fine with that, I dont usually dl(Bytes Downloaded: 81892 k) skin I enjoy making them.
Reply #295 Top

OK, so maybe #3 should be 24 hours then. A week may be too much. Enough for people to want to subcribe, but not enough to piss them off. And maybe #2 should then be 7 days instead of a month. A month is pretty long.
Dunno. That.s the overall idea anyway. The details can be fine tuned.

But hey, it's just an idea. I'm not Stardock.


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Reply #296 Top
We can put level 2 in a slow server, i mean like they can only dl at speed of 5-15kbs/sec instead of a way fast server like now or limit the times or how much they can dl each month.
Reply #297 Top
Paxx..That sound more suitable, IMHO


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Reply #298 Top
Paxx: That sounds good to me. Like elvee I have a problem with #3, because (as I understand it) the site has been payed largely by Stardock and that means Stardock's customers. Therefore I think it would be unfair for them to have that penalty.
Reply #299 Top
Even a 24 hour penalty would not be acceptable, IMHO.
Reply #300 Top
You think even 24 hours is too much? Or you have a problem with my original 7 days.
I think 24 hours is reasonable, IMO. Dunno. Anyway, it probably won't get implemented, i'm just throwing that as an idea.