Frogboy Frogboy

Discouraged. Is our community as we know it coming to an end?

Discouraged. Is our community as we know it coming to an end?

A large percentage of you who read this are already WinCustomize premium subscribers. You've already done your part to help this site keep going.

But I must say, things are grim this holiday season here. 2 expensive servers are down. We must get 2 new servers in here. We need to get another 2 servers on top of that for redundancy but that can wait a bit. But it's depressing knowing that millions visit this site each month and we've only gotten 156 new subscribers since the subscription drive began. It definitely makes a strong case that perhaps the days of free skins are over. That the skin authors and web masters, who pull their weight, should move towards a more commercial model that benefits primarily those who contribute (skinners, subscribers, and developers). 

My friend Scott (Jark) has much the same problems over at deviantART: http://news.deviantart.com/article/12039/

That is, the problem of having massive MASSIVE traffic but only a tiny fraction of those users paying the bill. Many people think, incorrectly, that massive traffic == money. It doesn't.

I can tell you, those of you who have purchased premium subscriptions here have helped the community in ways that the average user can't possibly fathom.  Premium subscribers combined with the volunteer efforts of this site's administrators (Jafo, Boxxi, DavidK, Treetog, Alexandrie, Kaosati, MikeB, Hippy, and others) are what keep things going.

Without the premium subscriptions, I can tell you right now what would happen.  This site would slowly morph into being a purely Stardock oriented site with bandwidth caps for all users (including Object Desktop users - though theirs would be higher). Support for non-Stardock sections would slowly disappear or be restricted to subscribers only.  The wallpaper section would only be available to those who either have a wallpaper on there that got accepted or subscribers (in all these exaples, anyone with apprentice access or higher would be treated as a subscriber).

There would be banner ads, and things would become vastly more commercial. Instead of a free Christmas suite, it would be a $8 Christmas suite. Instead of free skins, a new system would b eput in place to allow authors to sell their skins as part of te library once they had achieved a certain access level. One-click purchasing by users with the skin authors getting a percent.

That is the commercialized future of skinning. The alternative. It's not necessarily dark and evil. But it is a much different world than what we have now. I suspect many skin authors out there would jump at the chance of being able to get paid for their skins.

I've posted for years that our community is made up of 3 co-equal groups: The skinners, the web masters, and the users.  We webmasters are doing everythign we can.  The skinners have done their part.  The users have to do their part as a collective.  Which means of the 75,000 unique visitors this site gets each day, 500 more of them need to contribute back too.  As the alternative to voluntarily helping will be paying bits and pieces here and there for skins and themes.  The alternative is a smaller community, a more commercialized community but a sustainable one too.

Personally, I hope some balance can be found. While some people think we represent the commercialization of skinning, in reality, we don't. We simply want...must find a sustainable model that allows our community to grow.  We have all seen the instability Deskmod, Skinz.org, and even Customize.org have faced.  The site has grown beyond what Stardock can pay for via Object Desktop sales.  While Stardock's revenue has grown, the traffic to this site has DOUBLED this year.

Like I said, a large percentage of you have already done your part. There's nothing more you can do.  But hopefully, the millions of people who come to this site will have some infintesible number of them that recognize that someone has to pay for all this stuff. 

The end of the year may end up being the end of this site as we know it. Those new machines will be purchased one way or the other. But if Stardock ends up having to pay for any of those two new machines, it's going to come with strings attached. Ones that will certainly benefit subscribers but the casual users of the world will probably not like.

96,005 views 522 replies
Reply #251 Top
I'll ask again, since it seems to have been overlooked ( #223 )...

Why is it that I can log out completely and still download skins and themes? If registered users are capped, why can people who aren't even registered at this site download at all? This seems like a huge hole that could be plugged simply by requiring site registration before they download.

It seems like enforcing the 50 meg limit would begin with knowing who the downloaders are to begin with. With most people having dynamic IP addresses, downloads without registration would be practically anonymous, right? This is the Great Maw I was talking about in my earlier post.
Reply #252 Top
From the Subscription information on the web site


Level 1: Visitor. These are users who haven't created accounts. They can download up to 5 megabytes of content before having to create an account.


which answers why you can still download stuff. Did you try to download more the 5Mb. How the limit is applied is another question. An obvious way would be with cookies, but they're removable. And I don't think IP addresses are as dynamic as you might think, especially in the days of broadband. I guess a StarDock techie could give a more precise answer





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Reply #253 Top
I have expressed the same opinion in (#34) Bakerstreet.


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Reply #254 Top
mmmm, personally I think I would have emailed T-man about this instead of posting it in the message board...

wonder how many had no clue and are now going to see just how much they can suck down?
Reply #255 Top
Bakerstreet - you can download up to 5 megabytes before having to create an account.  When you create an account, you can then download another 50 megabytes before you hit the cap where the system starts to nag you.
Reply #256 Top
Good call IP Thanks



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Reply #258 Top
IPlural: I don't think the problem is really people who meet the limit, log out, and delete their cookies. I would say a great number simply never bother to register to begin with, and never realize anything is amiss. All that would be necessary would be 10 or so items for the unregistered folks, and bar them from accessing the libraries at all until they register.

RogueJay: the vast majority of broadband has dynamic IPs as well, to make it difficult to DNS and run servers on home systems. In my area there are several broadband providers, and only my own provides a static IP. All the most popular ISPs here force a dynamic IP.


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Reply #259 Top
I ordered OD last week and have not received it yet, does this make me a subscriber? is there anything else I can do? I really want to help out the site.
Reply #260 Top
If I were a downloader and ran into a cap, I'd create a new account. New email addresses aren't too hard to come up with.

Now this whole "the costs of this site are getting out of hand" thing is something that seems to pop up at a random site every other week. It's getting too expensive because too much traffic is generated.

I see two solutions:
1. gather more funds to foot the bill (which seems to be what everyone sees as the solution)
2. stop growing. Why not? What's the use of getting so big that it can't be supported. So WinCustomize gets more traffic than most other (if not all) skin sites. Why not cap the downloads, decimate the available content to only the best of the best, make things exclusive.

Why the urge to be so big and get bigger?
Reply #262 Top
OK, should I go to another forum to ask ? #259 ???
Reply #263 Top
KONA: You had mentioned earlier that you do not have a credit card [as I don't myself...]. Do you know someone [family, friends, etc?] with one? I believe many of these people without credit cards *could* purchase a subscription via friend/family member. You can also transfer funds FROM PayPal TO their [the person who paid the 20 dollars for your subscription]online bank account. Is that not an amiable solution? Surely we ALL know someone willing to front 20bux for the time it takes to transfer funds from your PayPal account to their bank account..no?

- just wondering.......
Reply #264 Top
probably best, ask in the Help section of the message board...

one thing, if you did get an email with your registration information already you can cross reference that info for access to the site. No it is not a subscription exactly but you do have the same access in kind...
Reply #266 Top
That's true.

People needs a sample before they gets hooked.
Reply #267 Top
Oops missed 11th page. Ignore my post
Reply #269 Top
Xendre64 is going to keep subscribing, because he would get very bored with only having a couple hundred WBA files on his desktop. Long live WC!
Reply #270 Top
ordered OD last week and have not received it yet, does this make me a subscriber? is there anything else I can do? I really want to help out the site.


once u create a account here u can combine ur stardock account and ur acount here as well u do it in the account preferences section..but it will only make u a level 3 .. i believe when u combine the two accounts a portion of funds orsumeting comes here for support .. its not the same as if u buy a regular subscription. a full subscription goes directly to WC.. i bought the full stardok line o products and got a subscription here too. i figured the more i added the more i helped out
Reply #271 Top
KONA: You had mentioned earlier that you do not have a credit card [as I don't myself...]. Do you know someone [family, friends, etc?] with one? I believe many of these people without credit cards *could* purchase a subscription via friend/family member. You can also transfer funds FROM PayPal TO their [the person who paid the 20 dollars for your subscription]online bank account. Is that not an amiable solution? Surely we ALL know someone willing to front 20bux for the time it takes to transfer funds from your PayPal account to their bank account..no?


My family has people with credit cards yes. But it is a matter of getting the 20 bucks first. My family dosen't loan money even if your on your deathbed. >
Reply #272 Top
Frogboy: I am pretty sure it had been mentioned more than once in the past, but the 5 meg limit you mention really does not seem to exist. I just logged out to make sure it hadn't been fixed and downloaded 11 megs of material, with a static IP and not deleting any cookies.

This isn't an 'exploit' of your system, you are just making it all freely available, aren't you?

I think that hole needs to be fixed really badly before you settle on what is working as far as a sustainable model. Most of the people who would download without registering probably never know that there is an implied limit, or that there is a need for them to contribute at all. You make it available, and they download it.

As it stands your model is leaking *without* anyone being abusive and getting extra accounts.
Reply #273 Top
P.S. even if you fix it using cookies, people inadvertently or purposely flush their cookies every so often. it is possible someone could casually visit the site over time and download a great deal without bumping the 5 meg limit between flushes.

I think the best method available would be to offer a few sample skins and make the libraries available only to the site's registered users.



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Reply #274 Top
Perhaps a time-limited database access....the casual visitor only has access to the older product...and must register to gain access to the new works...
Reply #275 Top
Hum, not bad Jafo. Could set up the sister site with the older stuff and make this site a subscription only site.



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