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A Poll regarding bandwidth and costs (important)

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A Poll regarding bandwidth and costs (important)

from WinCustomize Forums

This as good a time as any since this subject is going to have to be dealt with at some point:

Our Story So far...

As long time users know, the amount of traffic this site gets has steadily increased. This month something like 1.3 million unique individuals will visit this website.

Since the dot-com collapse, bandwidth prices have increasingly become painful because there's no realistic way to pay for the site via banner ads. We are getting ready to unveil Textbanners.net this next week and hopefully that will help (users can take out ads on the site directly for as little as $1 per day).

But realistically, we're at something like 50 megabits of bandwidth much of which is dedicated to this site.

Right now, Stardock pays for virtually all of the tab. The goal was always for WinCustomize to become self-sustaining. But as the site has grown, that hope has drifted further and further off. 

But to try to off-set costs, we instituted WinCustomize subscriptions. For $19.95 a user gets a 2 year subscription to the site which gives them unlimited downloads, 2 premium suites, and the WinCustomize browser along with 5,000 free impressions on TextBanners.net. 

Non-subscribers have been restricted to 50 megabytes of bandwidth they could consume in the form of downloads. You'll occasionally see a post by someone who suddenly discovers scruples and expresses his outrage and desire to defend innocent artists everywhere for having to pay to download more stuff. But it's been one of the few ways of getting people to subscribe or at least go away and go to some other site to download stuff.

Subscribers have helped us pay for new hardware, more bandwidth, etc. But it's still a fairly low percentage. Well not just fairly low but amazingly low (far less than 1% of visitors).

One reason for that is because Stardock customers are currently exempt from the bandwidth restriction. So are users with access levels Apprentice and up.

Who should pay the bills?

That's put Stardock in an awkward position. It's facing either having to raise the price on Object Desktop (the proposed price is $69.95 up front and $37.95 for renewals) or put some sort of cap on the amount of megabytes a non-subscriber Stardock customer can get. The proposal on that end is 250 megabytes.

We'd like to hear from you. Which way do you think is most fair? My opinion is that we should go with the 250 meg cap on SDof bandwidthvery few people download that amount of bandwidth so it would only affect a small percent (most of the bandwidth is used by a small percent btw).  Those users can contribute either by subscribing for $20 for 2 years or contributing in other ways (skins, themes, walls, message boards, etc. and gaining higher access).

What's your view?

18,147 views 69 replies
Reply #26 from WinCustomize Forums Top
other possibility to consider:

non-paying people only gets to see the newest 25 ( if not less )items in any skin type.

maybe make it reasonable cheap such as 2 bucks per month, with addional savings for paying the entire year ( ie: 20 bucks )

hmm maybe something like 10 mb a month for non-paying, but with possibility of downloading a single file thats bigger than 10 mb like a theme thats like 11 mb file.

non-paying ODNT users: 50 mb per month but with no limit on viewable skins, so odnt users still have benefits. once again, with possiblity of going over the size limit, but only if it was below limit, but download size is bigger than aviliable left over to download. ie: 45 mb used, and user can download a skin thats 10 mb but cant download til next month.

just a few ideas
Reply #27 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Mr.XX, that 50 meg is not per month, thats till they purchase something. So if they hit the 50 meg and don't purchase anything they will not beable to download anything again.



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Reply #28 from WinCustomize Forums Top

The problem is that about 5% of the userbase uses about 25% of the bandwidth.

Then shouldn't that 5% have their wings clipped before they reach 250 megs?
Chances are that bunch is nothing but leaches.

btw...... is that 250 megs a year, or a month?





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Reply #29 from WinCustomize Forums Top
250 megs total.
Reply #30 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Life time Koasati.



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Reply #31 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Hi,

I don't think the price of OD should be raised for paying for WC. I'm a long time user of OD and if the price is raised for paying for WC i will have serious doubts wether i will continue my OD subscription (BTW I'm also paying now for WC).

I think a cap of 50 / 250 MB is much, lower this cap per month and in total and raise the price.





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Reply #32 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Random questions:

Whats the average size of a skin?

You talk about 5% using 25% of the bandwidth: what are they downloading exactly?

I think some real in-depth research on the site itself needs to be done, and possibly/probably some revamps to the site itself to lower the bandwidth expenditure of the site pages themselves.

Little things add up.

(IE: how much bandwidth are all the snazzy website graphics eating up? how big are each of the pages? the index? etc.)

It'd also be interesting to see a "minimalist" theme added to the "site skins".
It'd be nice to have a lower bandwidth version of the site, just to speed things up even a tiny bit...
[Message Edited]
Reply #33 from WinCustomize Forums Top
From what I understand there are tons of so called "Adventure Capitalists" (i.e. insane rich guys) that throw around millions on the most insane studies and experiments you could even imagine… you need to get a hold of one of these wackos as an investor…then there can just be free love.
Reply #34 from WinCustomize Forums Top
From what I understand there are tons of so called "Adventure Capitalists" (i.e. insane rich guys) that throw around millions on the most insane studies and experiments you could even imagine… you need to get a hold of one of these wackos as an investor…then there can just be free love.

Crispy Dove,not a great idea, people who know zip about this type of business can cause huge problems and in real terms, there is no such thing as a free lunch, let alone free love.
Brad, I'd go the extra mile, non-subscribers, 100M cap, period.
Subscriptions, $20.00 per year.
It's just sound business.
I'd like to know just how many of the non-subscribers are using 'unregistered' Stardock apps .... Jafo knows exactly what I mean re 'unregistered'.
'Venture Capitalists' I think?
And there are not too many 'insane rich guys' out there .... they don't retain their $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ if they are wackos!
[Message Edited]
Reply #35 from WinCustomize Forums Top
The problem is that about 5% of the userbase uses about 25% of the bandwidth.


Be worth checking the ratio of skins v walls, and to be fair, 3Mb to 4Mb Icon packages are a bit over the top IMHO.
[Message Edited]
Reply #36 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Frogboy, if I got your story right you mean or raising the price of object dock, or a unsubriber limit of 250 megs?

I would say last, just because some kids are downloading more then 250 megs dasn't mean that people who are buying objectdock should be pay more. I think 250 megs is a bit high. Shouldn't it be smarter to make it 100-150 Megs for people who don't contribute and 200 megs for people who do make skins and contribute?
Reply #37 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Shouldn't it be smarter to make it 100-150 Megs for people who don't contribute and 200 megs for people who do make skins and contribute?


Styl, define 'contribute'.
Your proposition would be a bit rough on untalented members such as this particular Marsupial who have been around from the early days but lack the skills to 'contribute' other than financially.
Reply #38 from WinCustomize Forums Top
What's wrong with 50MB for people that don't contribute? I have been here since the beginning (UserID 2480) and have downloaded 127MB. That contains mostly WB skins and DXPlayer object (yes I am weird). 50MB is still enough for a couple of hundred skins/objects. There are not much walls in 50MB, but then again this is a skin site. Some of my stuff I download elsewhere, just like I upload some of my stuff elsewhere.
Reply #39 from WinCustomize Forums Top
wombat, there is also a way to contribute to the msgboard. There are pretty familair faces at the msgboard that dasn't skin, I don't think that the active users who are going to buy object dock has to suffer under the people who just come here and download.
Right?
Reply #40 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Style, just a slight correction : It's Object Desktop, not Object Dock (which is freeware).

I am all for the cut on downloads. I am all against making OD more expensive. I just think less people will go for an OD subscription then.



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Reply #41 from WinCustomize Forums Top
The other possibility could be a monthly bandwidth limit, like those ISP's impose on sites, instead of an absolute limit. That would certainly reduce the drive-by downloaders if it is set low enough. Stardock customers might be less likely to buy renewals if they can't download skins.
Reply #42 from WinCustomize Forums Top
jcg thats similiar to my idea.
Reply #43 from WinCustomize Forums Top
#19 by EventHorizon - 7/27/2003 5:48:35 PM Is raising the price of the subscription a possibility? Or would that scare away the customers? ($20/1yr) ($35/2yrs)


I have to agree with EventHorizon. Make the WC subscription $20.00 Per year. Also, make WC a subscription/app purchase site only. Twenty bucks a year ain't that much for what you are getting here.

Too many people reach the 50mb cap, and then with a few key strokes, change their IP address (dial up makes it easier), and re-subscribe with a different user name, thus giving themselves unlimited free downloads.

I did this myself before guilt forced me to purchase OD (most of which I will never use as I don't skin and have no graphics talent at all), and a subscription to WC.

You might also think about offering paid e-mail services... "[email protected]". Offering personal web hosting/site packages might also be something to look at.

This is easier to say than to implement, I know, but might worth thinking about all the same.

Now, there are those who will bitch and whine about my suggestion of making WC a strictly subscription/app purchase site. That is because most of them want everything for nothing.

There are those who will say that doing this will scare away new subscribers as well. I don't think that this will be the case. WC and Stardock are sufficiently well known to attract new business on the strength of their names and reputations alone.

Even some OEM computer manufacturers put out systems with a Window Blinds theme as the default. I know this because I work for one (The theme we put on one of our systems was "XXX". I believe it was made specifically for us. Frogboy will likely remember which OEM I'm talking about here).

I think that people will be willing to pay to be able to have access to WC if the site becomes accessable only through subscription/app purchase. Stardock is after all a business and not a charity organization.

Just my humble opinion for what it's worth.

Oh... by the way.... Those of you who are thinking of flaming me for my comments here.... Whatever!!!
Reply #44 from WinCustomize Forums Top
A 250mb cap is too high, try a 100mb cap. Rasing the price of OD is not a bad idea. When people buy OD including something like the Oranda Cursors with it.
Reply #45 from WinCustomize Forums Top
#42 by Mr XX - 7/28/2003 6:34:22 AM jcg thats similiar to my idea.


Well, what do you expect me to do, read the entire thread?

The only disadvantage to the idea is many of the skins I download are to try out for commenting purposes and I only use a small percentage of those afterwards. That activity would be difficult to keep up with a monthly dl limit.
Reply #46 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I would say last, just because some kids are downloading more then 250 megs dasn't mean that people who are buying objectdock should be pay more. I think 250 megs is a bit high. Shouldn't it be smarter to make it 100-150 Megs for people who don't contribute and 200 megs for people who do make skins and contribute?



Yea, 250megs is too high. 100 is more reasonable...Ppl just need to watch what they download.
(And hope the preview image to the wallpaper they want is the same size/quality as the one in the zip)
Reply #47 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I agree, but why not add a say like 5 mb limit per month, and it would be better like I downloaded 2 mb in the first month, and then I have 8 in the next...
Reply #48 from WinCustomize Forums Top
As a subscriber to OD for 4 years now I agree with the majority of people who think that raising the price of an OD subscription to pay for the WC site is a bit unfair to the people who buy OD. As a subscriber to the WC site I would be willing to pay more for the right to download unlimited content for the subscription period, I'm not sure why but the $20/1 yr or $35/2 years seemed good to me. I would also like to say that it seems unfair to try and cap users who although the pay do not "contribute" enough in some people's eyes to qualify for unlimited downloads. I read various discussions almost every day and I post comments infrequently so my user level is at the citizen level, does that mean I should not be allowed to download skins after a certain point? I should hope not! Unfortunately I have absolutely zero skinning talent so the odds of my creating a skin are probably less than zero but I am able to contribute financially in the form of a membership. I personally like the way digitalblasphemy handles memberships. The paid site gets all of the preference, if anything has to be cut it's from the free site. Why should the people who buy memberships have to suffer so that millions of non-subscribers can all get their free 50MB's?

Sorry if I rambled there but I feel that the use of a persons "contributions" in this matter is going to alienate some long time users of Stardock products.

Thanks,
-=- Kevin



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Reply #49 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I didn't read every message in this thread but I sincerely hope there will be some consideration for regular contributors. It is bad enough the amount of money people spend on tools to support the skinning community let alone the amount of time. But for some of them to have to pay for a subscription too... A regular contributor could be based on the # of downloads one gets or something thereabouts.

If this has already been clarified, please ignore the above.

As Doomgaze pointed out, it'd be nice to see how much of the bandwidth is used on the site itself vs. things downloads of like walls, etc.

As for caps for non-subscribers/contributors 5-10 megs a month seems fair to me. If they aren't contributing or subscribing, the free ride has to end somewhere.
Reply #50 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Crispy Dove,not a great idea, people who know zip about this type of business can cause huge problems and in real terms, there is no such thing as a free lunch, let alone free love 'Venture Capitalists' I think?And there are not too many 'insane rich guys' out there .... they don't retain their $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ if they are wackos!



Napalm Dove naive....

Look at this insane rich guy who just decides to drive around the earth because it seemed like a fun idea…I’m sure brad could shake him down for some serious cash.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0375509127/002-2145025-2975253?v=glance

No free love? I think someone woke up on the wrong side of the outback. I thought you guys were supposed to be whimsical and sing songs like tie me kangaroo down sport, what a grouch.

I say Star dock should take a revolutionary stance and return to a pre von Neumann environment….if the customer refuses to pay all the plugs can get pulled from a star dock program rendering it completely and utterly useless.