Origins: Which aliens from the original series do you want in?

None of them.  I've made my feeling on this very clear both here and on reddit.  One of the things that attracted me to this project was your promise to not use the original aliens.  You have gone back on that, and I can't find the words to express just how disappointed I am with Stardock.  I want a refund, but don't want to be used as evidence.  I want a refund of every Stardock game in my library.  I've uninstalled all Stardock's games.  That's as close as I can get to letting you know just how unhappy I am with this turn.  I expected better and you let me down.

Fair enough. You can get a refund and just use the above reasoning as why.

Unfortunately, the confusion created over the past several months has forced us to make full use of our IP rights.  As you have no doubt scene, even on Reddit, plenty of fans have said that we are just Star Control “in name only” because we aren’t using the aliens. We didn’t create that confusion. Now that it exists, our hands are tied. Trademarks are a use it or lose it proposition

We stated we weren’t going to include the classic Star Control aliens out of deference to Paul and Fred, the designers of SC1/2. It was a courtesy to them, one that was not returned in kind.  

We have to focus on what is best for the story and for Star a Control fans, most of whom don’t care about about the noisy legal squabbling. What they care about is getting the best Star Control game we can make.

Only one name: Druuge.

Either as refugee or most probably Melnorme competitors. Trade without competition cannot exist. What else would prevent Melnorme from ripping off customers by monopolising the space trade? They can also be used (and were used in SC2) as baddies in some quests.

Druuge have a fascinating background, non-trivial society, pretty bad-ass looks and a very fun ship. 

When thinking about the Kessari quadrant species, I would vouch for Clairconctlar for all the same reasons (except trade). They'd fit better as refugees though due to their honor concept and societal principles.

I like the Druuge but I always thought of them as quite a bit further away, they also have a story niche that is filled in by the Menkmack in many respects.  It wouldn’t stop a Druuge entrepreneur from showing up out at the edges.

My chief interest is that Origins takes place in 2088 and there’s a lot of really craz stiff we are going to run into over the next three decades (3 of our years from a dev point of view).  

I'm  gonna start with a simple one: Taalo.

Stardock actually did create that confusion... when you made mention many times before the lawsuit that you didn’t have the right to use the original aliens in Stardock’s Star Control universe.  Now you are claiming you have rights to the IP when the question of who owns it is still in question, and in active litigation.  The wise choice here is to leave the original IP alone until the question is settled.  All this thread is going to get is backlash from the original SC fans, and it looks like a poke in the eye to the original SC developers (who you are in active litigation with). Leaving this alone will buy you some goodwill, and you don’t even have to pay cash for it!

I'd say... and don't shoot me for this, the Taalo.

As we know the Taalo were attacked but possibly some of them escaped into a different dimension, possibly escaping to here.  I was thinking what if those weird drawings in the caves in Ceres were actually tribal tattoos worn by unlucky escaping Taalo who merged with the rock faces while breaking through the dimension into our dimension.

One other possible history for the Taalo in this dimension, what if one of their critically wounded survivors stumbled onto Earth wounded but alive and ran across two electronic engineers that managed to create the very first Integrated Circuit as a byproduct in attempting to patch up the traveler's body.  All of which would happen under the guidance of the wounded Taalo Doctor that slips into a coma shortly after first aid is applied.

Fast forward to today, with our current level of mastery of Silicon manipulation, and a curious descendant of one of the two engineers stumbles upon the comatose Taalo and fixes it thinking it is an ancient automaton to play with, thus we get a quest popup to deliver it to a certain location in space and send a signal at that time which would cause us to officially meet the Taalo race as a whole.

Would love to see, if not appearances, at least references to all of them. Maybe some worlds could be inhabited by custom critters as inside references too. If these are all alternate universes, we can see glimpses of races if they had remained primitive critters instead of evolving to the state we’re most familiar with.

Maybe we visit the Gorno system and there is a race of fierce marsupial critters on the surface who practice a very primitive form of martial arts and ritual self sacrifice against your lander.

Similarly, perhaps there are some interesting types of plant life in the Librae system who can walk sideways and backwards and like to follow your lander around.

Or a world full of glowing mushrooms that actually vocalize with each other as if they are mumbling and chanting some type of religious incantations with one another.

I noted that none of the original constellations are present in the new map but thought it would be amusing to stumble across new undiscovered ones that we are unfamiliar with, or possibly glimpses of them via an Origin.

Maybe we could accidentally stumble across a gas giant in the Corvi constellation and be totally ready to ignore it because it appears nothing is there, but a technician reports unusual bio activity in the atmosphere.

I’m not sure how we created the confusion. We didn’t announce a game claiming to be the “true sequel”.

We don’t have rights to the copyrights. Nothing has changed. 

Any founder who vote “no aliens” is welcome to do so. That’s a perfectly valid opinion.

That said, I suspect I’m not the only person weary of individuals claiming to speak for the Star Control fan community.

This thread is a good opportunity to see how the fan community does feel though. I.e. votes for the aliens versus votes against.  We can tally it up after a sufficient time.

Recap:

2 votes for Taalo

1 vote for Druuge

2 votes for none

1 vote for all of them

The races I'd love to see make an appearance would have to be... (In order of importance)

1. The Taalo
2. The Drall
3. The Utwig
4. The Slylandro
5. Definitely the Mycon
6. The Lk

But if I have to pick one? Taalo by far.

Robinicus on Discord voted Slylandro "not the probes"

Regarding the Mycon, wouldn’t it be pretty early for them?

Depends. Based on the Kessari lore, they were basically abandoned stepchildren (or experiments) of the Precursors, left to wander the stars without their makers for millennia after they up and vanished.

If Melnorme are in, then think about bringing Keel-Verezy in. They are always nearby and invisible. Melnorme buy info from them too.

OK, you claim to not own the copyrights, but you clearly claim a right to use the original aliens.  When previously you said you didn’t think you had a right to, nor would you do it.  It’s inconsistent.  You are causing that confusion.  And if you are doing it because of Reiche and Ford’s announcement, it comes across as punitive.  

The question of whether you have the right to use the original aliens is still open, yet here we are in the 11th hour of SC:O development asking the question of which original aliens to put in the game.  Not sure how any “modified just enough to skirt copyright infringement” original aliens enrich the gameplay or the story.  All it serves to do is to announce that Stardock feels it has the rights to use the classic aliens, when the original tact was a definitive ‘no.’  That screams confusion to me.  If I heard that originally and went away for a couple of years, and saw Stardock’s interpretation of the original aliens, I would be confused (and still am).

I’ve tried to punch this brick wall before on Reddit, and I am hoping (maybe foolishly) using the Founder forum will make you listen with a bit more consideration.  Because the decision to put the original aliens in SC:O is your decision alone.  And I am foolishly optimistic this will all get settled out of court sooner than later.  Brad, you mentioned that there was nowhere near as much animosity between you and Reiche/Ford as on these boards.  Since I presume you met face-to-face with them at the settlement conference, I am hoping that to be true.

Spoke my peace, I am out of the discussion.

Another alien thought to keep it on subject...

What if you introduced the Umgah prior to their rampant genetic engineering used to rebuild their bodies for reason X.

Some of the minor species (i.e. won't get leader scenes but you come into contact with them) include:

• Yuptar
• Verezy
• Kzanti
• Jonterwock
• Melnorme
• Vokas
• Norast
• Fot

It might be a little early for the Mycon, but that DOES present an interesting scenario. It's possible that the corruption of the Mycon didn't occur until closer to the beginning of the original Ur-Quan conflict. How cool would it be to find mostly normally functioning Mycon out in space? Or even free Deep Children? Maybe the Origins Mycon coexist with their Deep Children?

There's a lot of cool ways to play with this.

I am not sure where you get that other than one post where I was, I thought, clearly speaking of the copyrights.

You can find countless posts from 2015 on where we stated that we could absolutely have the classic aliens in if we wanted but were not doing so out deference to Paul and Fred.

No it's not. Star Control games can have Star Control aliens in them. 

It is a question of whether we can express them the same as they were in Star Control I/II.

It's no different than the music.  We can't use the Super-Melee music from Star Control II because Dan Nicholson made that and he owns the copyright to it.  So we had to make new Super-Melee music.  But there's no question whether we can have music for Super-Melee.

Our original plan to not have any aliens from the classic games was premised on 2 things:

1. Star Control: Origins takes place in 2088, not 2112.

2. Not using them would leave the door open for the designers of Star Control 1,2, to return later and create new stories in the Star Control universe.

Unfortunately, they decided to publicly claim they were making the "true" sequel and that it would not be related in "any way" to Star Control and that it would use the "genuine" Ur-Quan, Spathi, etc. 

Only Stardock has the right to decide what is and isn't in the Star Control universe and how things associated with the Star Control universe are used.  

Tell you what though, if the majority of the founders here say NO ALIENS then we will seriously consider it.  Right now, it's 7 to 2 in favor of using aliens from SC 1/2/3.

I would be more than happy to see the Ur-Quan conflict & Kessari Quadrant races in Origins. Awkbird summarized pretty well how it would be cool to see references/hints in dialogues that imply they exist in the current timeline. I also like the idea of Melnorme and a few other races returning to fill certain roles, but in general as long as they have a well written reason/explanation to be in the Scryve sector then they are more than welcome to make an appearance.
So 1 vote for all.

No (more) classic aliens (for now).

I actually quite like the lore reasoning for not including them - too early and too close to home. So it makes sense to encounter the Arilou, and I guess the Melnorme can be fine as well, but I'd rather keep the rest of them for a later stage. At most have a just few of them in minor cameos as refugees from far away. 

I'm glad to hear the Melnorme will be making an appearance.

If it makes sense to the story I have no issues with you including any of the original races.  You know where the legality of copyright ownership stands better than the rest of us.  If you can use them why wouldn't you at this point?

Let's not turn this to another thread like the Q&A one.  I'll back Brad up on this.  He did say that they could use the classic aliens but would not.  That's why I'm so disappointed in Stardock. 

I appreciate the offer of a refund but will not accept.  As stated I refuse to be used as evidence.  Accepting that refund would allow that, and further the thinking that Stardock is in the right with their thinking.  They are not.  My only option is to stop supporting Stardock entirely.

Before I get attacked: P&F are just as wrong. 

This is probably the closest position to mine I've seen posted so far in terms of the major races from SC 1/2.