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Star Control: The Multiverse thread

Star Control: The Multiverse thread

In the prime Star Control universe (Origins) the Star Control project was formed to find out what happened to the post-singularity species, the Lexites after they left Earth.

Star Control: Origins represents the third universe that players have been able to adventure in.

Let's recap:

Star Control 1/2: 
Year: 2120s and on:

Earth is fighting a losing war with its allies, the Alliance of Free Stars against the Ur-Quan Hierarchy. In Star Control 2, the player is the captain of a Precursor vessel that must find a way to bring the defeated allies together and stop the Kohr-Ah, the Ur-Quan's sibling species, from annihilation all life in this area of space.

Star Control 3: 
Year: 2120s and on:
In this alternative universe, the Alliance of Free Stars won the war against the Hierarchy but at the cost of destroying Hyperspace as we know it. Now, a new enemy arises who thrives on a universe without Hyperspace and you must save the day.  This is our retcon so that we can make clear that Star Control I/II and III are in different universes.  Thus, if the story from Star Control II is continued in the future, it can be done so while easily ignoring the events of III.

Star Control: Origins 
Year: 2088:
Earth's radio signals have been detected by the malevolent Scryve Empire who dominate our area of space. They see the potential in humanity and wish to obliterate the humans before they reach their potential. You must find a way to stop the Scryve before they discover the location of Earth. Good luck though as the humans of 2086 are about as ready to handle this as...well, what you'd expect the humans of 2088.


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Each of the 3 universes have important differences.

Star Control I/II is the beloved classic released by Accolade 25 years ago.

Star Control III is...less beloved (also released by Accolade) around 20 years ago.

Most people (90%) won't be familiar with the classic games which is another reason why Star Control: Origins has a clean start.

Here is one fact we can reveal:

In Star Control: Origins there was no Sentient Milieu like there was in the backstory for Star Control 2.  Thus, all the species evolved very differently than they might have done so.

In Origins, a powerful empire known as the Scryve grew to dominate our area of space around 8,000 years ago after overthrowing the "Faction of Eight" who are no longer in this area of space.  We don't know who the faction of 8 are or what role the Origins (the multi-dimensional gateways) had in helping the Scryve against the Faction of Eight.

Feel free to comment or ask questions in this thread.

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197,325 views 85 replies
Reply #26 Top

Quoting Kavik_Kang, reply 19

I think it's better to go with the Tardis hangar bay that the audience is used to accepting in just about all other sci-fi.  The ships magically following the mothership around in it's wake has more holes in it than swiss cheese.  That makes no sense at all on a lot of different levels.  It's not a huge issue or anything like that, but is definitely something that leaves be just shaking my head and smiling about it.  People are used to the Tardis Hangar Bay, almost all sci-fi ships have them.

As for the rest of it, apparently there is a lot of information about the universe that I haven't seen, because after these last posts none of it makes any sense too me.  I seem to be missing a lot of information.

I just don't agree with that view.   You have a fleet of ships that are docked externally to your ship.  They're not inside the ship.   We don't show them for aesthetic reasons when flying around but they're not inside.  

Players even have the option of adding additional docking bays to support more ships being docked.

Reply #27 Top

Quoting ShadeDark, reply 23

But that's leads me to think of a retcon, maybe the races like the Tywom and Scryve, DID exist in the original SC:1,2,3 Universes, but each were, destroyed by the Ur-Quan Kohr-Ah/Dnyarri rule

I like this. This should be canon. We were told there were a bunch of destroyed/slave shielded races we never met in SC2. There's no reason they couldn't have been SCO races. Even the Scryve were defeated.

Reply #28 Top

Quoting Kavik_Kang, reply 20

Ok...

After reading through this all again, I think I get this better now.  Your "Origins" are Kevin Seimbiada's "Rifts" and are portals to other universes.  SC1/2 is does not come after your 2088 SCO timeline era, you will have your own alternate timeline era during the SC1/2 era.  An Origins portal might take you to the SC1/2 "universe" just like it might take you to Star Wars, Star Trek, Babylon 5, or Rifts (just to tip your hat to the guy who originally came up with all this in games;-).

So you've completely separated SCO, SC1/2, and SCIII into entirely separate universes that can never intertwine, other than something from the "prime universe" visiting an alternate universe because you seem to be saying this only works from one "Place".  Things from the prime universe can visit alternate universes, and things alternate universe can visit the prime universe, but things from alternate universes cannot visit other alternate universes.

So I think I do understand it now after reading through this thread again... it's pretty much straight-up Rifts.  Send Kevin a thank you note;-)
 

You got it!

This allows us to tell a lot more stories and allows players to create and their their own alternative fan universes with each other.

How Universes work with the game:

At the start of the game, you initially have just 1 universe: Origins.   But there's an "Add Universe" button on the screen where you can add additional universes created either by us or fans.

From a lore point of view, you are able to take YOUR ship to these other universes via the multi-dimensional gateway known as an Origin. Origins were built by the Precursors long ago before they disappeared. 

Officially, Star Control has hosted 3 universes:

  1. The Ur-Quan universe (Star Control 1/2)
  2. The Kessari universe (Star Control 3)
  3. The Prime universe (Star Control: Origins)

Each universe has its own history. 

Stardock doesn't own the universe we call the Ur-Quan Universe.  That's presumably owned by Paul and Fred who developed the first two games for Accolade.   Stardock does own the Kessari universe but...we're not planning to extend it but rather release the source code at some point to the fan community.

Now, for the Prime universe, let's use a TV analogy:

Season 1: The Scryve Conflict (this is what we will ship this year)

Season 2: Tentatively called "Inquisition".  This will ship post-release as an expansion.  It expands the 40x40 (160) parsec map to 50x50 (250) and players can expect to begin running into other aliens associated with Star Control (fans can probably guess).

Each season will introduce the player to new aliens, new characters, and new adventures as the map gets bigger and bigger.

These seasons all exist within the Prime universe.

However, we also are planning to license other universes.  Obviously, we had hoped to license the universe Paul and Fred say they own and that's not looking promising right now.   But other universes that could be licensed are like the ones you mentioned (B5, Stargate, etc.).

 

Reply #29 Top

Quoting ShadeDark, reply 23

So let's say... in the Origins Universe, the Ur-Quan evolved differently, maybe without being controlled by the Dnyarri.
But that's leads me to think of a retcon, maybe the races like the Tywom and Scryve, DID exist in the original SC:1,2,3 Universes, but each were, destroyed by the Ur-Quan Kohr-Ah/Dnyarri rule, OR they existed in a different far-away sector~ 
Because if the old races evolved differently in Origins, the same could be said for the new races in the old universes!

You have nailed the spirit of this thread. :)

Let's step through that.  

How would the Ur-Quan have developed if they'd never encountered the Dnyarri? And are the Dnyarri lurking within the Origins universe undiscovered or have they built something far worse than in the SC2 universe?

 

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Reply #30 Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 26


I just don't agree with that view.   You have a fleet of ships that are docked externally to your ship.  They're not inside the ship.   We don't show them for aesthetic reasons when flying around but they're not inside.  

Players even have the option of adding additional docking bays to support more ships being docked.

Docked externally is a different subject.  The SFU calls this "Mech Links", and one of the races in Sword of the Stars worked this way (my favorite SwoT race!).  The later era capital ships of my own universe have a very limited number of destroyers docked externally too the outer hull.  This can actually be a very cool thing.  This is very different then saying that they are just "in the wake of the mothership" which really has a lot of issues in my view.

Not seeing the ships docked externally isn't much more of a thing for players to forgive than a "Tardis hangar".  External docking definitely works here, and especially in an arcade game not seeing the ships docked externally is something I think players can easily "suspend disbelief" and forgive.

In an arcade game the scale creates a problem no matter how you slice it.  That is one of the points I was making.  The ship needs to be too big to work for the game for this to be done in a "realistic" way no matter what solution you go with.  I didn't like the "carried along in the wake" explanation, but external Mech Links are as good of an explanation as a hangar bay.  Those are equal in my view.  In either case, the mothership is a lot smaller than it should be but there is no way around that in an arcade game.

 
Reply #31 Top
On the Origins portals...
 
Yes, this is just like Kevin's Rifts and my PDU.  The timeline runs through the prime universe, Rifts/Natural Wormholes/Origins allow you to go to any other "Place" (other dimension or alternate timeline).  You can expand your own story linear through the timeline, and the universe "up or down" through the "dimensional portals".  So it is really pretty much exactly like Rifts or the PDU.  We should both be sending thank you notes to Kevin, haha!
 
I had always wanted to bring the player to Star Wars, Star Trek, and B5 locations if I could find a way to legally do that, as well;-)
 
Reply #32 Top

And with all these similarities with both SCO and my PDU borrowing from Kevin's Rifts I just can't resist...

...so if Hunam makes his own universe, we would all be in the wrong Place to understand Hunam's universe until we went through his Origin portal to experience it. 

"Oh baby!  Do you know what that's worth?"

...you tell 'em, Cindy!

;)

Reply #33 Top

I'm having a "nothing to do posting in a lot of places all day" Sunday...

The Yehat and Pkunk never seperate in their past and instead continue to evolve together in racial harmony. By the time of SCII they have a single ship and call themselves Yeunk. The Yeunk are obsessed with restoring the good nature to the Ilwrath, that the Pkunk are certain is still there and can be brought back within them and have convinced the Yehat of this too.

Their ship looks like a cross between a Yehat and Pkunk, and has a blending of its abilities. It would be one of the more powerful ships in the game. It has the Yehat shields, the double forward Yehat guns, the single side Pkunk shots (and is maneuverable enough to still do a decent death blossom like the Pkunk could do), and still has a passive 50% chance of reincarnating. Like I said, this would be one of the more powerful ships.

Ilwrath Obsession: The Ilwrath became so good that they flipped to evil. The Yeunk, who greatly admire the Ilwrath, are trying to help them by flipping back to being good. The Yeunk believe this can only be achieved in the same way that they had flipped to evil, they have to become so perfectly evil that they flip back to being good again. So the Yeunk do everything in their power, as if it is their religion, to help the Iwrath be as evil as possible... so that they will become good again.

Reply #34 Top

Quoting Kavik_Kang, reply 32


"Oh baby!  Do you know what that's worth?"

...you tell 'em, Cindy!

;)

That’s Belinda I believe...

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Reply #35 Top

Quoting ShadeDark, reply 23

So let's say... in the Origins Universe, the Ur-Quan evolved differently, maybe without being controlled by the Dnyarri.
But that's leads me to think of a retcon, maybe the races like the Tywom and Scryve, DID exist in the original SC:1,2,3 Universes, but each were, destroyed by the Ur-Quan Kohr-Ah/Dnyarri rule, OR they existed in a different far-away sector~ 
Because if the old races evolved differently in Origins, the same could be said for the new races in the old universes!


They could have also already been slave-shielded by the Greenies. 

Quoting Kavik_Kang, reply 25

...


You are the only one mentioning hangars.  They weren't in SC2 (storage bays were, but those were for minerals).  Pretty sure SC3 is the same way, but it's been at least a decade and a half since I played so can't be sure.  

Reply #36 Top

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2018/03/18/stephen-hawking-leaves-behind-breathtaking-final-multiverse/

Reply #37 Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 34


Quoting Kavik_Kang,


"Oh baby!  Do you know what that's worth?"

...you tell 'em, Cindy!

;)



That’s Belinda I believe...

The Spider Queen...

 

Reply #38 Top

Quoting SWVRoma, reply 35


You are the only one mentioning hangars.  They weren't in SC2 (storage bays were, but those were for minerals).  Pretty sure SC3 is the same way, but it's been at least a decade and a half since I played so can't be sure.  

I always assumed it was a mothership in SC2 because that is what makes the most sense.  Whether the satellite ships are carried in an internal hangar bay or docked externally too the hull.  The satellite ships are too small to be flying across the galaxy like you do in SCII so the thought that they were supposed to just be flying around as a fleet never even occurred too me.  Because it is an arcade game, the scale can't be right, so like I said before all of the options are "wrong".  When all of the options are wrong, I start looking for the one that is "least noticeably wrong".  

 
Reply #39 Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 18

Re universes vs. the Prime universe

There is no single universe.  It's a multiverse.   The prime universe (Origins) is the one that contains the Precursor Origins gates which allow travel to other universes as well.

Our area of space, for the base game, is a 40x40 parsec block.   To put that number into perspective, the Milky Way galaxy alone has a diameter of 30,000 parsecs.  

We refer to the Origins universe as the prime universe because it is the only one, that we know of, that you can travel to other universes from.

 

Well then there is still a possibility of some confusion. Your reply combined with your 1st post tells me that Origins is not only the prime universe allowing to travel to others, but ALSO is a place where the Scryve Conflict happened. This is what disturbs me. What I was thinking is that the Scryve Conflict is THE 3rd universe, not the Origins. In my opinion, Origins should be the 0th and the main universe, but it should be void of galaxies and stars - i.e. devoid of matter. This "small", possibly unnaturally energetic "space/time continuum" should imho contain only the nodes or wormholes or teleports to other universes. One could see it as a weird entangled map of those wormholes in empty space as a screen for selecting which universe to travel to.

While all other universes, including Scryve Conflict and Kessari Conflict, should not contain these travel nodes/wormholes to all other universes of the multiverse, but only one node which allows to travel merely to the empty Origins Omniverse. And from there on to the other universes.

That kind of stuff seems more logical to me and easier to implement graphically. 

Reply #40 Top

I think one can presume that the Scryve, Ur-Quan, Drengin, etc. exist in many different universes.

 

Reply #41 Top

Yeah sure, but imho Origins could be better off being a void without matter. It will be hard to explain the new players that Origins is a prime one because it has all these stars AND Scryve Conflict AND interuniversal wormholes system developed by something/someone. Much is not always good. Well, you and marketing team decide anyways ;)

Reply #42 Top

Quoting Ashog, reply 41

Yeah sure, but imho Origins could be better off being a void without matter. It will be hard to explain the new players that Origins is a prime one because it has all these stars AND Scryve Conflict AND interuniversal wormholes system developed by something/someone. Much is not always good. Well, you and marketing team decide anyways ;)

Origins is the hub universe for all the other universes.

Reply #43 Top

The Precursors built the Origin portals, just like the Ancients built the Stargate Network.  So the Precursors existed in this "Place", where they built the Origins portals.  "Prime Universe" is really the wrong term, which I think is what is confusing you.  This isn't the "Prime" universe, it is "Our" universe... the same one that the Precursors were "native" too.  So the Origins portals are in this universe, or this "Place".  So, when it comes to the Origin Portal Network "our universe" is where the Origin portals exist.  It isn't the "prime universe", it is simple "our universe" with this ancient Origin Portal Network left behind by an ancient species that was far more advanced than any species that currently occupy this "Place" (or "universe").

It all makes perfect sense too me, and to Neil Peart...

"Wheels within wheels in a spiral array, a pattern so grand and complex.  Time after time we lose sight of the way, our causes can't see their effects"

 

Reply #44 Top

Quoting Kavik_Kang, reply 43

The Precursors built the Origin portals, just like the Ancients built the Stargate Network.  So the Precursors existed in this "Place", where they built the Origins portals.  "Prime Universe" is really the wrong term, which I think is what is confusing you.  This isn't the "Prime" universe, it is "Our" universe... the same one that the Precursors were "native" too.  So the Origins portals are in this universe, or this "Place".  So, when it comes to the Origin Portal Network "our universe" is where the Origin portals exist.  It isn't the "prime universe", it is simple "our universe" with this ancient Origin Portal Network left behind by an ancient species that was far more advanced than any species that currently occupy this "Place" (or "universe").

It all makes perfect sense too me, and to Neil Peart...

"Wheels within wheels in a spiral array, a pattern so grand and complex.  Time after time we lose sight of the way, our causes can't see their effects"

 

So perhaps we should refer to it as the Origins universe as it is the only one, that we know of, that has the Precursor Origins in them.

 

 

Reply #45 Top

Did the Precursors evolve in the Origins universe and then spread through the Origin Portals to the other universes?  Or are you saying you call it SC:O because that is the only universe with the portals?

I'm just saying I think Ghosts of the Precursors won't agree that the Precursors evolved in the SC:O universe.

Reply #46 Top

Quoting Prof_Hari_Seldon, reply 45

I'm just saying I think Ghosts of the Precursors won't agree that the Precursors evolved in the SC:O universe.

I suspect that at this point there is little chance of GotP being canon with anything else, *assuming it even happens*.

I'm not convinced there was ever any actual plans to make it, but I've said as much before and there's no point starting that whole discussion up again.

Reply #47 Top

Quoting Prof_Hari_Seldon, reply 45

Did the Precursors evolve in the Origins universe and then spread through the Origin Portals to the other universes?  Or are you saying you call it SC:O because that is the only universe with the portals?

I'm just saying I think Ghosts of the Precursors won't agree that the Precursors evolved in the SC:O universe.

No one knows where the Precursors evolved.  It doesn't really matter what unrelated games think. :)

Reply #48 Top

Why did the Precursors in the Kessari Quadrant de-evolve instead of leaving that universe entirely?

Reply #49 Top

Quoting Prof_Hari_Seldon, reply 48

Why did the Precursors in the Kessari Quadrant de-evolve instead of leaving that universe entirely?

That is a mystery we will want to discover in a future visit.

It is my belief that the Precursors, around 250,000 years ago, went into many universes and members met various fates.

In Galactic Civilizations, the Precursors, who in that universe were known by many names by the more ancient civilizations, all returned to their universe of origin (see GalCiv III: Twilight of the Arnor).  

 

Reply #50 Top

Cool :)

 

Didn't Star Control Kessari Quadrant claim that the Precursors evolved right after the Eternal Ones took a break?