The Matrix Reloaded Plot Theories

from WinCustomize Forums
*** SPOILER ALERT ***

A few notes before you continue on with this thread:
1) There *will* be spoilers
2) If you’re here to talk about how much you hated the movie, please take it to the appropriate thread

With that said, after viewing Reloaded I was left with as many questions as I went in with, so if you have a take on what happened in the movie, please post ‘em here.

My thoughts on a few things:

.=Zion=.
Two things that we know for sure at the end of the movie is that a) Neo stopped a sentinel while “outside” of the Matrix, and b) Agent Smith is now in Zion. These two facts point to one thing: Zion is not the “real world” but is, in fact another portion of the Matrix.

.=The Coma=.
After stopping the sentinel Neo slips into a “coma”. I believe that Neo had a moment of ‘self realization’ when he did this that ‘blew his mind’, so to speak. If Zion is still technically within the Matrix, then it is very conceivable that Neo is AI and this realization caused a failure in his code. Or if he is human, it could be that this portion of the Matrix has a different security level in the code and since we’re still technically bound by the rules of the Matrix while within the Matrix, Neo’s realization causes a system error that boot’s him from the system. Either way I think that the coma is induced by code that is either a) written that way so if you “become aware” within this portion of the Matrix then you get kicked from the system, or b) an error in the code that cannot handle self realization in this portion of the Matrix.

.=Zion Revisited=.
If Zion is still a part of the Matrix, or a different ‘security level’ then everything that entails getting to Zion (taking the red pill, breaking free, getting flushed, etc.) are part an elaborate program to convince these individuals that they are now free of the Matrix and are now in the “real world”. If this is the case then it is still entirely possible that everyone is AI and this is an attempt by the larger part of the system to “convince” these portions of the AI that they are, in fact human. If everyone is not AI, then it still makes sense to create an area like this to ‘contain’ these renegades that cannot be contained by the “level 1” version of the Matrix.

.=The Rave Scene=.
There are no gratuitous sex scenes in The Matrix, and I believe that this scene is imagery of a much larger event, that being the union of Neo and Trinity. Perhaps it is of major significance that their “code” merges, or perhaps it is important that we see that they are passionate for one another rather than assume that they are. If we never seem them “together” then we can only assume that they have been intimate, so I think that we’ll find out that it was important that they “merged”. This could actually be a huge point of the last movie.

.=Random Thoughts=.
If AI is written good enough it will not be able to comprehend that it is AI, as this is self defeating to a “pure” AI system. Is it possible that we are watching the creation of the first AI ever that Morpheus mentions in the first Matrix? Is this cycle of Zion a recompiling and running of new code to test the compassion level of the AI towards humans? Could it be that Neo, is in fact the purpose of the AI and the point is to create AI (Neo) that is 100% compassionate towards humans so as to advert world destruction. Did they run a simulation of the AI and deem that if left to its own devices that it would attempt to destroy humanity, so Neo is the “fine tuning” process to make AI “compassionate” towards humanity? The one “failing” of humanity, according to the Architect is hope, and Neo now has that...

I have more but my fingers are tired
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Reply #1 from WinCustomize Forums Top

I was thinking much the same thing. But then there's the Animatrix which makes a big deal about the back story of the Matrix. From a story telling point of view, I think it woudl be too much of a cop-out if the whole thing is part of the matrix.

I could buy that Neo at the end is still in the Matrix but even that I think is pushing things.

I tend to  think of it in a bit more conventional way, that is, that what makes Neo different in the Matrix is that he has a sort of ESP. And in fact, all those who reject the matrix do so because they have a higher ESP rating than others. Hence, Neo can, to a limited degree, affect the machines outside the Matrix.

Reply #2 from WinCustomize Forums Top

The architect = god

talk among yourselves...

Siege of Centauri
Reply #3 from WinCustomize Forums Top
If you have nothing to say about the movie, why then do you post in a thread dealing with plot theories, other than to put down and insult others who found the movie interesting and worth thinking about, and wish to discuss. Please troll elsewhere
Reply #4 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Frogboy -
I agree with your thoughts on the “super human” (ESP) possibilities that are posed. I just haven’t explored that side of it too deeply yet… and thinking about it, there are many “human” elements that they focus on that, like you, makes me believe that they will not reduce this whole series to one big “AI Dream”.

KarmaGirl –
Morpheus, Neo, Trinity = The Father, The Son, and The Holy Ghost
... I dunno, hehe

Could the name “Trinity” suggest the Holy Trinity to a degree? Could they be trying to “emulate” God to a degree within the construct of the Matrix to give the AI within it some sense of “religion”?
Reply #5 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Neo is "the One".  Is that like Christ? 

Obviously Zion is connected still with the Matrix.  the Architect was going to allow Neo to pick people to form the next Zion race with and everyone else will be destroyed.  How can the Architect have the power to destroy everyone?

Or, maybe he is not God, but the Devil.

What About Agent Smith?  Why is he always trying to stop Neo?  Is it to save the Matrix?  Or is he the Architects helping hand?

Why do they (ie: the Architect) need to keep re-doing the Matrix all the time?  Is it like saving your good data then reformatting?

Reply #6 from WinCustomize Forums Top
maybe Neo is more of a moses kind of guy. Smith seems more like a devil now. Neo is leading his people out of the matrix to the 'promised land' of Zion, Smith is just mad at Neo and trying to kill him. Hmmm who knows



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Reply #7 from WinCustomize Forums Top
argghh. waited too long to edit my post to remove my trolling comment after kona's apology. Oh well...disregard it then...
Reply #8 from WinCustomize Forums Top
It’s almost as if the existence of Zion is a “fine tuning” process. When “The One” materializes it could be a signal that the program run is complete and that it is now time to “reset” the program, fix the bugs, recompile, and run it again. The Architect tells Neo the following:

.=The Architect=.
“You have many questions, and although the process has altered your consciousness, you remain irrevocably human.

You life is the sum of the remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the Matrix. You are the eventuality of an anomaly, which despite my sincerest efforts, I’ve been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision.

(Zion is a systemic anomaly that if left unchecked it might threaten the system itself)

The function of The One is now to return to the source allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you carry reinserting the prime program. After which you will be required to select from The Matrix 23 individuals, 16 females, 7 males, to rebuild Zion. Failure to comply with this process will result in a cataclysmic system crash killing everyone connected to The Matrix, which coupled with the extermination of Zion will ultimately result in the extinction of the entire human race.”
.==.

I believe that most of what he says is true, in that the function of The One is to return to the source, because if Neo is carrying code then it is code that the Architect is unable to come up with himself and Neo’s purpose is to “create” this code (fix the bugs) and merge it back into the main build… so to speak.

As for him telling Neo that he is human, I still don't know. I *want* Neo to be human ... I think we all do, but I'm no longer certain that he is.
Reply #9 from WinCustomize Forums Top
As for redoing the Matrix, the way I understand it (and bear in mind I'm pullling this out of the air) is that it's not a perfect solution. A certain percentage of people can't except that. As Asimo stated above, rather than allow the rabble to roam free, the system is designed to focus and contain them as much as possible. Eventually it reaches critical mass and Zion must be purged (much like dragging unwanted stuff to you recycle bin and then eventually emptying it.
As for rebooting the Matrix, perhaps the point of Neo going to the source and then rebooting the Matrix and Zion is to incorporate The One's knowledge of humanity back into the Matrix such that on the next reboot, the Matrix is further tuned to make it more efficient, in an attempt to futher reduce the percentage of people who can't accept the Matrix and ulimately become malcontents (Or did I just reiterate what was already stated before?)
[Message Edited]
Reply #10 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Just want to point out I wasn't copying Asimo's post above mine. I just read it. Looks like Asimo is thinking along the same lines as I am.
Reply #11 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Chris, what you stated is what I got from the Architects whole speech. He's trying to refine the matrix to make it more palatable.



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Reply #12 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Aye Chris, perhaps the point of Zion is to “study” humans for several reasons:

1) The better the AI understands human nature the better it can create a Matrix that they will not “want” to escape from

2) The purpose of AI is to perfect human actions and reactions, and the people that don’t accept the “level 1” version of the Matrix and make it to the Zion level are a little more complex than the rest of the sheep. Perhaps it is this desire to break free, this hope that the renegades possess, that the AI wants to capture and code into itself… In a “safe” way tho, hehe…
Reply #13 from WinCustomize Forums Top
what you stated is what I got from the Architects whole speech. He's trying to refine the matrix to make it more palatable
Yeah, guess I'm stating the obvious. sorry about that.
[Message Edited]
Reply #14 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Some of today's real AI programs only contain the basic logic. When started the program learns. The code contains rules about what is considered to be failure or success. At the end of its life cycle only the parts of the "experience" are used to generate a new version of the program based on those rules. The building blocks of such programs are small units called agents. Each agent can have its own set of AI rules.

Back to the Matrix. We are told that this is the 6th generation of the program. And we do see agents that act independently. Smith is one of them. All characters you see are agents (not only one ones called agents in the movie) and are part of the program.

Let's assume that this program serves a purpose then it wouldn't surprise me if we are looking at a program that simulates the Matrix. Its purpose will be how to control the "real" Matrix.

The fun part is of course what we expect to be the end of the movie. Since it is science fiction, cyber punk or whatever we call it, it can still go any direction. Below is my theory about it.

If Asimov's 3 (or 4) laws of robotics are correct then the program needs to desctruct itself to give humans their freedom. We see that the simulation of the Matrix is destroying itself time after time and I wouldn't be surprised if the Matrix III ends with a total destruction of AI itself. Each new generation of the simulation starts with a limited amount of agents (simulated free humans). Maybe trough genetic manipulation of the real humans the Matrix can guarantee that after it really destroys itself history won't repeat. It thereby returns "freedom" to the humans. But since they are genetically manipulated will they really have a choise and is that so called freedom real afterall?
Reply #15 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I think that Agent Smith will play a huge role in the final movie. I am convinced that his code was never supposed to know/enter the Zion level of the Matrix. The Oracle says that programs that are marked for deletion tend to leave and “live” anonymously within the Matrix while avoiding deletion. The majority of programs within the Matrix are completely bound by the rules of the Matrix, however the Agents (true Agents, not the agents that MadIce is referring to) are not. Perhaps he was marked for deletion, or (more likely) he simply disconnected from the main programming of the Matrix, but either way Agent Smith is now a renegade program that is completely acting on his own. Much like a hard drive image program, he is now able to transfer his code to others within the Matrix.

As for Neo and Smith’s connection, I dunno yet. That’s a tricky one. At the beginning of the movie Neo can ‘sense’ Agents. I don’t know if this ability has been explained, but I don’t recall him being able to do it at any point in the first movie. Maybe this is a byproduct of becoming “aware” within this level of the Matrix. Or maybe when he “entered” Agent Smith there was a transfer of code, and his code is now able to detect Agents when they get within a certain distance… hehe, kind of like those little “Pocket Pets” toys that’ll rumble when someone else with one walks by.

It would be interesting to watch both movies and look for specific instances of Asimov’s laws of robotics to see if the have actually applied any of them.

I like the idea of the AI creating a system that is trying to set up a system where history will not be repeated.
Reply #16 from WinCustomize Forums Top
If Asimov's laws of robotics are being applied in the Matrix, then Neo and all the other characters we have 'assumed' to be human, cannot be a human because those characters have been killed by agents. Smith himself was trying very hard to kill Neo in the first movie. So either the Robotics laws are not in effect, or Neo et al are not human.



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Reply #17 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Without getting too derailed from the main thrust of this thread, Asimov's inital 3 rules were:

1. A robot must never harm a human being
2. A robot must do what a human tells it to do, unless this conflicts with Rule #1
3. A robot must preserve itself, unless this conflicts with Rule #1 or Rule #2

IIRC, he later added a 4th rule, but I can't recall it

As for Smith and Neo, did not Smith say something to the effect they he gained something from Neo when Neo originally "killed" him? There seemed to have been some unspecified sort of transference of karma or essence between the two. If they inded did "share" code, then Smith got something of humanity from Neo
Reply #18 from WinCustomize Forums Top
The fourth law was called the Zeroth (0th) law and took precedent above all
others. It dealt with humanity as a whole. If Neo is human, then Agent Smith, as a representative of a machine entity, could cause no harm to come to Neo.



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Reply #19 from WinCustomize Forums Top
The Additional 'Zeroth' Law of Robotics:
'A robot may not injure humanity, or through inaction, allow humanity to come to harm.'
Reply #20 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Chris –
I’ve been thinking along the same path that perhaps there was some sort of metaphysical transfer between Neo and Smith, thus enabling some human “abilities” in Smith, and “super human” abilities in Neo (controlling machines outside of the Matrix). If this is the case then this one thing alone could blow the whole “Zion is a part of the Matrix” theory out of the water.

*erases slate*
*starts new theory*

hehehe
Reply #21 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Why must the physics and laws of one sci-fi writer apply to all?



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Reply #22 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I think that the main reason that those things were brought up was to possibly establish some sort of a pattern, as it is well known that the Wachowski brothers have literally layered both movies with “physics and laws” of not only several sci-fi writers but religions, philosophies, and popular folk lore as well.
Reply #23 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Please note I have not seen the animatrix episodes. Which has some bearing on some of my last comments here, since I lack that background.

This is a bit long. From Monday night.

<Roggae> the first predicate is that nobody has lied
<Roggae> it's only the truth, from a certain point of view or as far as they know
<Roggae> persephone is the mother of the matrix, not the oracle. the architect's "please" comment of neo's "the oracle?" is entirely dismissive
<Roggae> and it explains persephone's wanting to be kissed like he kissed trinity
<Roggae> after all, that's the central difference in this iteration of the one
<Roggae> he loves her, not just a generalized love for zion
<Roggae> hence his choice to return after her and not return to the source and save zion like the others
<Roggae> they are in the real world
<Roggae> the sky is schorched, no way to see the stars, no way to determine time. he is the xth iteration
<Roggae> what he's done though is see past the choice he didn't understand
<Roggae> trinity died
<Roggae> just like the oracle and the arrchitect essentially said
<Roggae> neo saw past that and saved her
<Roggae> that's how he's different from the past
<Roggae> unlike when I walked out of the movie, zion is not already destroyed. they clearly say the machines resumed drilling
<Roggae> morpheus' loss of hope means he can be redeemed in the 3rd movie
<Roggae> because he was right all along
<Roggae> and his faith, as the oracle said in m1, is what is referenced to an extent by "without morpheus, we are lost"
<Chris> ah you mentioned a little bit of this the other day.
<Roggae> I spent way too much time pulling out pieces over the weekend
<Roggae> your bit on the architect text really helped clarify things until I could see it again
<Chris> yes I agree with yout about the generalized love vs the specific  love of trinity being the impetus of this
<Roggae> I don't even care so much about that
<Roggae> I think that's obvious, they said as much
<Roggae> I think the trick card here is persephone
<Chris> yeah, I'm still a bit fuzzy about persephone though
<Chris> her being the mother is interesting
<Roggae> think about all the elements of the interaction
<Roggae> the oracle says be here and the merovingian will be there
<Roggae> he has the keymaker
<Roggae> she never says that's the whole story there
<Roggae> the matrix in that building is "encrypted" according to neo
<Roggae> there's that bit when they walk in where somebody is being escorted out, who neo looks at and who makes eye contact with him (music changes as well). happens in the span of 3 sec, not sure what's up there.
<Roggae> merovingian: this is my wife, persephone
<Chris> i missed that
<Roggae> doesn't introduce anybody else
<Roggae> blah blah blah meeting, blah blah blah philosophy, you have no power to interest me
<Roggae> yet neo does
<Roggae> he has the power of love, something for persephone
<Roggae> they leave
<Roggae> morpheus: it's good because we're still alive
<Roggae> boom
<Roggae> persephone there to help them out, with a price. a newness to her.
<Roggae> she's obviously a program
<Roggae> she knwos and can do far too much
<Roggae> the merovingian is a pawn
<Chris> and this is a whole new experience for her (neo's love)?
<Roggae> yes
<Roggae> no, whether she winds up helping them...
<Chris> that makes sense and gives that whole kiss scene meaning
<Roggae> the oracle, in her bit says something like this:
<Roggae> wait
<Roggae> I typed this yesterday
<Roggae> let me find it
<Chris> hehe
<Chris> movie's completely screwing with your mind
<Roggae> I love a good mind fuck
<Roggae> it's why I've spent so much time thinking about this
<Roggae> I'm interested in one thing, neo, the future
<Roggae> and believe me, I know, the only way to get there is together
<Roggae> we can never see past the choices we don't understand
<Roggae> are you saying I have to choose if trinity lives or dies?
<Roggae> no, you've already made the choice
<Roggae> now you have to understand it
<Roggae> what if I can't what happens if I fail?
<Roggae> then zion will fall
<Roggae> for what it's worth, you've made a believer out of me
<Roggae> back to the first predicate
<Roggae> nobody has lied
<Chris> yeah I had always assumed no one lied in the movie, but the truth was a matter of understanding
<Chris> though I had always assumed that Zion, or at at least the Zion he returned after walkin through the door was still the Matrix
<Chris> but I doubt that now
<Roggae> I thought that when leaving
<Roggae> because it's only 1 line that tells you zion survived
<Chris> the only thing baffeling is interacting with the matrix "unplugged"
<Roggae> its so very subtle
<Chris> as Neo stops the sentinels
<Roggae> perhaps I have an advantage, having not seen the animatrix stuff. unplugged is animatrix?
<Chris> no sorry, just my term, I haven't seen animatrix either
<Chris> In that in the real world, without any phsyical connection to the matrix, neo is able to stop the sentinels
<Roggae> what do you mean by unplugged then?
<Roggae> ah, that
<Roggae> he has the connection with smith
<Roggae> he has part of the matrix
<Roggae> and as such is the "one" to bridge the gap
<Roggae> man and machine coexisting
<Roggae> not exterminating each other (ref the scene with the councilor in lower-levels of zion)
<Chris> yes there's that, I guess I was wondering how that rationally could be explained other than some sort of telepathy or magic
<Roggae> in a very broad sense, we still have no idea how the matrix came out
<Roggae> or why humanity is preserved as (assuming no lies, but remember that morpheus doesn't necessarily know the truth) in the matrix
<Chris> true, we at this point we really know little about the matrix
<Roggae> we may never
<Roggae> it's not 100% germane to the resolution how it came about
<Roggae> unless it was deliberate to foster some sort of X between machine and man
<Roggae> and honestly, there really aren't a lot of hints as to the why in either film
<Roggae> just the how
<Chris> it'd be interesting to learn if there's more to human/machine than just the "human battery" purpose. I hope the next movie continues to fuck preconceptions.
<Roggae> yes
<Roggae> I would like another mind fuck ending
<Roggae> complete resolution where the dance with the ewoks would piss me off
<Chris> hehe yes indeed. I want it to be one big Whoa! at the end
<Nakor> I'll even be happy if keanu says it

 

 

Reply #24 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Nakor -
I just saw Reloaded again, and after reading your post I am starting to think that Zion is real, and there is no sub-Matrix. The big dance scene that so many complain about actually has huge meaning, as does the kiss between Neo and Persephone. Love, raw emotions that can't be explained or generated by a machine...

More on this later... Must eat...
Reply #25 from WinCustomize Forums Top

I believe that most of what he says is true, in that the function of The One is to return to the source, because if Neo is carrying code then it is code that the Architect is unable to come up with himself and Neo’s purpose is to “create” this code (fix the bugs) and merge it back into the main build… so to speak.

So the architect needs Neo to check in his code....