Quest Markers: What's the Philosophy?

from StarControl Forums

I'm curious what Stardock's position on quest markers is. Modern games are very hand-holding with regards to making sure you always know exactly where to go next, with map arrows, shiny glow-y halos around objects, etc.

I do think we need good quest journals and search capabilities for the starmap, but if an alien contact says "I lost that thing-a-ma-jig while fleeing pirates in the Nebulon Cluster (or whatever)", some games follow that dialogue up with a direct pointer to the exact location.  Other games (probably few modern ones) would leave it to you to even figure out where the so-called "Nebulon Cluster" is, let alone where in the cluster to look.  What's the philosophy on making us look for things and discover things for ourselves?

Personally, I prefer giving the player enough information for them to find it themselves, but I don't prefer map arrows and flashing indicators unless I've been given precise information within the story.  I think it would be fun if the quest started with an "area of investigation" (like a wide circle on the starmap) that gets smaller and more precise as I collect more information and clues. Then I can start searching right away if I want, but if it's too hard to find I can keep digging into the quest and uncovering more clues, and possibly more background.

28,911 views 6 replies
Reply #1 from StarControl Forums Top

Made a similar suggestion myself awhile back. Would prefer to have a journal of reminders that suggest a region to explore, or even just the ability to place a reminder marker on the map myself. Sort of a modern version of the old paper star map that we used to have, with the liberty to make our own notes to an extent.

Reply #2 from StarControl Forums Top

One of the things that made Star Control II so great was all the notes you had to take, and the maps almost everyone who played it made.  If you think back too it, working it all out for yourself with pages of notes and maps was one of the main things that made it such a great and memorable experience.  Unfortunately, modern gamers who are accustomed to being walked through games without needing to actually figure anything out on their own won't stand for that.

My impression is that this is what they are already doing, but I think it should be a compromise between both extremes.  Use the Journal as the "notes" we took while playing SCII, and the map notations on the SCO map as the maps we made to figure out SCII.  So that aspect is still there, just built into the game.  I would hope that SCO would retain the "you are a detective in space, using notes and a map to solve a mystery" aspect that SCII had and that it is not particularly easy to figure things out.  That's one of the things that made SCII such a great and memorable experience.

If modern gamers get stuck, they have their modern gamer resources to walk them through the game if that is what they want.  SCO wiki and walkthroughs they will be able to find online.

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Reply #3 from StarControl Forums Top

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but Brad's been pretty clear about the issue of quest markers, for quite some time now:

There are none.

Now, that doesn't mean they won't log the general area of something when it's mentioned to you. I don't know the exact format they'll use, but I believe it's like a "general area bubble" that includes not only the place you need to eventually go, but all the stars either surrounding it, or in its constellation, or whatever.

The Captain's Log will make any notes you hear for you, so you don't have to keep a notebook handy.

I always HATED it when, in Skyrim, you'd get some quest to retrieve a relic in the bowels of a Dwemer ruin, that no one's entered in 10,000 years - a huge mystery. Yet, your GPS knew exactly which sarcophagus on the exact floor necessary, to retrieve said "mysterious, forgotten relic". It got to the point where I would just skip through all quest text, all dialogue, and all information - just to follow the GPS marker. It's one of the reasons why I didn't even bother with quests. I just set out by myself, to find things I thought interesting. My best times in all of Elder Scrolls (or Fallout, for that matter), had nothing to do with GPS questing.

I think it's relevant to note here, that dialogue SHOULD have weight in this game, in regards to quests. It didn't really, in FOIV or Skyrim. You basically got the same information each time. But in SC, if you don't follow the dialogue paths, and choose the correct answers, there should be very big bonuses, and in turn, very big consequences, if you don't explore the options and choose your responses based on your knowledge of that race. Take some risks. Cut off species or quests, based on your actions. The public will love you for it.

Reply #4 from StarControl Forums Top

The mission creator can create a marker if they want.  However, other than the very start of the game, we don't tend to use them.  Instead, we give the player a Captain's Log which lets them try to figure out for themselves what they need to do next.

As a practical matter, because the story is non-linear, we can't really do the modern "just go here" thing.

Reply #5 from StarControl Forums Top

Personally I think "detective in space, solving a mystery through your journal and maps" is a good way to look at what I think of as SCII.  The more "detective work" it takes to figure things out, the more I will like it.  Anyone who wants to just be walked through it can use Wikis and walkthroughs to do that.  The younger audience is very aware that they can find everything they need on internet to be walked through any game, so it doesn't have to be built into the game as most developers feel it MUST.

That information will be out there for anyone who wants it, and modern gamers all know that it is out there on internet if they want it.

Reply #6 from StarControl Forums Top

The enjoyment comes out of sleuthing to solve problems similar to 'a planet like Syra' or 'yellow star to the left of a green dwarf'.

Response to anyone who wants to be spoon fed - you've got a hyperdrive and a heartbeat, go figure it out yourself.