Expected behavior of the map generating engine

It doesn't follow most of them

The following is a list of expectations I had regarding the map generation protocols of the game when I started modding a year ago. I have not tested all of them, but every one I have tested either is disproven, or used to work and does not anymore:

Percentages: a percentage should refer to the % chance of something happening (i.e., probability = decimal/1.00):

  • A 1.00 chance (100%) of getting planets should mean that every star system should have a planetary system; a 0.50 (50%) chance should mean that, on average, half of all stars should have planetary systems.
  • A 1.00 chance of habitable planets should mean that that every planet in a habitable lane should be habitable; a 0.50 chance should mean that, on average, half of all planets in a star EDIT: habitable lane are habitable.
  • A 1.00 chance of habitable planets having traits should mean that every planet has a trait; a 0.50 chance of traits should mean that, on average, half of all planets have traits.
  • A 1.00 chance of habitable planets being extreme should mean that every planet with a trait is extreme; a 0.50 chance of planets being extreme should mean that, on average, half of all planets with traits are extreme.
  • Thus, setting all four to 1.00 should mean every star has a system, and every system with a habitable lane has all habitable planets in that lane, and they are all extreme.

Weights: weights should refer to the proportional probability of an event relative to the whole (i.e., probability = weight/ (sum of all weights)):

  • Two systems with weight 50 and one with weight 100 should show up in 1/4, 1/4, and 1/2 of all systems on average, respectively, since 50/200 = 1/4 and 100/200 = 1/2.
  • Two planet traits with weight 50 and one with weight 100 should show up in 1/4, 1/4, and 1/2 of all planets with traits on average, since 50/200 = 1/4 and 100/200 = 1/2.
  • Two extreme planet traits with weight 50 and one with weight 100 should show up 1/4, 1/4, and 1/2 of extreme planets on average, since 50/200 = 1/4 and 100/200 = 1/2.

Ranges with modifiers: ranges should go between the upper and lower bounds, as modified by the modifier (i.e., value = minimum + (round((minimum-maximum) * some modifier * a random number))... note that this is a linear example, I do not expect linear modifiers)):

  • A system with a range of 1-5 dead worlds should have either 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 worlds with equal chance if the modifier is neutral. A low modifier should favor 1 or 2 planets, a high modifier should favor 4 or 5.
  • A system with a range of 1-5 dead worlds should always have at least one dead world (barring in-game effects).
  • A system with a range of 1-5 dead worlds should be able to have 5 dead worlds, and at most 5 dead worlds (barring in-game effects).

 

Ranges without modifiers: ranges should go between the upper and lower bounds, and each should have an even share of the total chance of the range.

 

  • A planet with a class distribution including a category listing of class 10 with a weight of 30 (out of a total weight of 150) should mean that that planet has a 20% chance of being class 10.
  • A planet with a class distribution including a category listing class of 1-3 with a weight of 90 (out of a total weight of 300) should mean that planet has a 10% chance (1/3 of 90/300) of having class 1.
  • A star system that can have a weight between 255 and 200 should not be allowed to have a weight of 50 unless the appropriate number is changed in another file.

 

Since these mostly do not work as expected, it is very difficult to mod this game in a consistent, much less realistic, manner. I understand this is a very low priority for the developers, whose primary goal has to be to serve the broader gaming community, but as someone who has spent a year trying to mod the game only to have these expectations disappear one by one, I am incredibly frustrated.

I would appreciate it if the game behaved more rationally, and I and others would be more motivated to continue generating content for the game if it behaved in a rational manner. Thank you for your time and attention.

97,926 views 6 replies
Reply #1 Top

To be absolutely clear, this is NOT an indictment of the developers, the programmers, the support staff, or anyone else! I don't know what it takes to make a game this complex, and I don't know what shortcuts they had to take to make it happen. They have no obligation whatsoever to support the modding community, and the fact that they do is wonderful!

This is a list of what I expected based on rational thought, and a summary of the mistaken impressions I had. It may serve as a warning to future modders to test extensively, and retest constantly. It may serve as advice for GalCiv4, it may do nothing at all.

If anyone can ever do anything about these, it would be great, because some of the problems I have found are serious impediments to making the mods I want to make. But that doesn't detract from what a great game this is, and how hard everyone works to make it that way! Thank you to all who work on this game, and I hope you don't take offense at this!

Reply #2 Top

For Crusade I dug into this system. I will indict the developers on your behalf.  It doesnt work as you (or I) would expect.

i will try to write up a guide on the Byzantine rules on what those numbers do.

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Reply #3 Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 2

For Crusade I dug into this system. I will indict the developers on your behalf.  It doesnt work as you (or I) would expect.

i will try to write up a guide on the Byzantine rules on what those numbers do.

That would be awesome because I spent a week tweaking the mapsizedefs and mapsetupdefs and I can not get a consistent number of planets per star systems.  I would make a change and create 10 galaxies with the new settings and record the number of inhabitable planets created. The standard deviation for the number of inhabitable planets would range from 3 to 20 - that's the standard DEVIATION.  I couldn't even get a standard deviation that was close, that's nuts.  I finally found a setting that seems reasonable and just play that.  I sure would like to know what's going on under the hood to refine my mod settings.

 

Reply #4 Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 2

For Crusade I dug into this system. I will indict the developers on your behalf.  It doesnt work as you (or I) would expect.

i will try to write up a guide on the Byzantine rules on what those numbers do.

Bless you!

Reply #5 Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 2

For Crusade I dug into this system. I will indict the developers on your behalf.  It doesnt work as you (or I) would expect.

i will try to write up a guide on the Byzantine rules on what those numbers do.

I really hope this will be addressed in v3.0!

Reply #6 Top

A long time ago when we only had a base game with a few dlcs. I modded to the maximum number of planets the excessive galaxy could have. One of the things that is probably screwing up the generation is the maximum number of planets.