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Hard Counters for Humans in SCO

Hard Counters for Humans in SCO

SCO Human cruisers have a great primary weapon. It is similar to that of the human cruisers of SC2.

Unlike SC2, the SCO flagship fires self-guiding nukes rather than dumb-firing projectiles. 

Also unlike SC2, there are few counters to these missiles, and none of the races with these counters start near Sol. (There are no Ilwrathi Avengers in our sector which can cloak and become immune to missile tracking. The only true counter to human ships are other human ships.)

This causes an issue because there is no incentive to collect and use other ships initially.

It also causes an issue because the human ship can utterly dominate the Scryve due to the weapon matchup of laser vs missile. The Scryve are not very threatening. (The Scryve need to win battles against humans 2 out of 3 times for me to feel threatened.)

Going by what we know now, here is how I would implement things:

1. The human flagship should start off with a cannon rather than guided missiles.

2. Human cruisers should not be available instantly.

3. A hostile alien race with a hard-counter to the human missiles (but not to the Tywom or other early allies) should have their sphere of influence placed close to Sol.

 

(In thinking about this, I can see how brilliant Paul and Fred were in creating their SC2 universe.)

 

12,315 views 36 replies
Reply #26 Top

Yes I should get a key and try it out.

I have been so occupied that I did not have the change to visit the Starbase.

So who do I get the key from? From Frogboy?

Reply #27 Top

Quoting Xenove, reply 26

Yes I should get a key and try it out.

I have been so occupied that I did not have the change to visit the Starbase.

So who do I get the key from? From Frogboy?

Step one: Look at last month's vault update.

Step two: Join Discord.

Step three: Enter the #precamper channel.

Step four: Post a link to your account.

Step five: Wait until you are registered as a founder.

Step six: Wait until you get promoted to camper.

Reply #28 Top

Quoting Xenove, reply 22

Ehh? Boring to limit the number of nuke missiles but not boring to nerf them??? The easy way out??  Serious?

 

 

I'm just saying that floating around for 5 minutes waiting for the number of nukes to regenerate would make me uninstall the game after one match.  Might even leave a bad review on the way out. 

Once you'll get a key you'll see what we mean.  The cruiser can 2 shot almost any other ship, and is fast enough, turns quick enough, and accelerates so fast that other ships don't stand a chance.  It's easy mode and needs a good whack with the bat.  I've posted multiple times the the damage needs to be reduced and the acceleration should be turned down.  The fast turn and speed can stay, those feel like the cruiser.

Reply #29 Top

Xenove's idea is actually very realistic.  I don't know how it fits in with the current combat environment, but what he is describing is called "Dial-A-Nuke" and has been how real US warheads have worked for decades.  The yield is set as a part of the targeting procedure.

 

Reply #30 Top

The charging concept is very similar to the Melnorme primary from SC2. It all becomes trade offs - you can have your charging weapon, but you don't get homing capabilities. And the held nuke can be shot by the opponent damaging your ship.

Bottom line in all ships (Human or not) there should not be a finite number of shots to deal damage to your opponent.

 

 

 

Reply #31 Top

It's actually a lot more like the Druuge ship in SC2. The primary weapon was super powerful (although without tracking) but you had a huge delay in energy recharge. I've really hated that ship personally... usually after i've killed all my crew and depleted the energy i would just suicide on the planet. waiting for too long is boring.

Reply #32 Top

The Druuge wasn't that bad actually..... the recoil is fantastic (until you hit the planet... and it almost always happens sooner or later...... strangely enough, as if it was hardcoded into the game). I have been able to destroy targets in zoom out mode across the screen! 

 

But otherwise it was a boring ship to use..... I guess most sniper jobs are like that, a lot of waiting, a lot of boredom and waiting for that perfect shot.

Reply #34 Top

Guided weapons are a problem in a top down shooter, especially SC where each ship only has 2 systems.  There is no good option in SC where each ship has only two systems.

I had listed several in an earlier post.  There are many counters for missiles.  Point defense weapons, which don't really work for the 2-system design of ships in SC.  A few ships might have something like this, but that doesn't help the rest.  Electronic warfare or countermeasures can also be used.  Electronic warfare would be like adding a passive ability to all ships, which doesn't really fit with Star Control.  Counter measures would be a device in SC, so that also doesn't fit.  Any "hard counter" is an "extra system" that doesn't really fit with the 2-system design of SC ships.

So the "counter" is best built into the weapon, not the ship it is targeting.  The original Star Control used the primitive nature of the game to balance missiles.  The original SC was almost on a hex map, which was used to make missiles miss if they were not approaching from just the right angle.  That doesn't work in the more precise map/space of SCO.  So the only way of balancing guided weapons in SC, that fits with SC, is going to be in the design and balance of the missile itself.  The speed, maneuverability, and range of any guided weapon needs to be designed to make them avoidable to whatever degree is perceived as "balanced" within this combat environment.  If close range/point blank is the major issue you can add a myopic zone ("safety arming range") so that the missile is useless at close/point blank range.  Or, you might build the electronic warfare into the missile instead of the ships, simply by giving the missile a chance to miss the target at the point of contact.

This is most likely going to need to be dealt with in this more subtle way, as the "hard counters" (as you put it) don't really fit into what Star Control is.

Reply #35 Top

I realized that this probably isn't obvious...

In balancing a guided missile against ships that have no defenses against missiles you can use the "ECM miss" in a few ways.  The missile can either miss, fly by like in Faster Than Light.  It can miss, but retain tracking and begin maneuvering back around to come after the target again.  In this case it will keep pursuing the target until it runs out of fuel.  Or it can detonate off target.  You can make the warhead a proximity detonation weapon that does big damage on a direct hit.  If it misses it can either be a simple half-damage penalty, or the missile can travel a random distance after a miss before detonating and the damage is based on the range from the detonation.

Which version is best depends on how big your problem with guided missiles is, and what the nature of the problem is.  

Reply #36 Top

I suggested something like this in feedback along with accuracy for a missile (basically a damage modifier), ECM (nullified EECM up to its value), and EECM.  base missile damage of now with missile accuracy of 1.  ECM value of .5  Opposing ship has a EECM value of .75.  ECM nullifies all but .25 of the EECM.  Resultant damage based on 13 damage is 9.75.  Got shot down for being too complex and straying from the Star Control formula.  However, it could be applied to ALL missile type weapons.