Distribution ideas and the desire to have my review count.

from StarControl Forums

Greetings, 

So after a few articles it is clear that Stardock is actually hurting itself by rewarding its most loyal clients with beta access. Those of us (including myself) who have purchased into the Lifetime Founder package would normally get access to this game and others somewhere in the Beta process. By having this access we founders are not unable to have our review count on Steam. Its complete and utter crap as Steam 'thinking' that we somehow got access to the game for free when in fact we did not. 

 

So what are the solutions? I was actually thinking about it last night. 

  • Can (the game developer) create 2 different executable's~ one for beta that is flagged and then at launch we get a 'new one' that says and flags us a 'purchased thru steam'?
  • Can we as founders create two accounts on steam and submit both to (the game developer)? << This sounds slightly illegal but I am not sure if the effort to track thousands of accounts for players is worth it, however if enough of us were willing to create all new steam accounts for this it may help. 
  • Petition steam to change its review policy to allow distributors who grant betas to have those reviews count? This is not something I know where to start at but would be willing to do it. 

In the end it is obvious that a company which rewards its customers with early access to help it create a better game is actually going to hurt it sales if it chooses to use Steam as its distribution platform. 

With that said, I as a founder would be willing to  completely give up beta/early access to SCO if it means I get to review on steam and my review would count. I want this game and all of Stardock's (games) to be successful and reviewed honestly. By removing the folks most qualified to give honest reviews Steam is arbitrarily hurting its customers sales. 

38,426 views 8 replies
Reply #1 from StarControl Forums Top

Truth to be told, we all will be biased for this game in some way or another, since we will experience the game completely differently from the other users that buy finished game. We are all pretty much fanboys, since we blindly bought into something with no real info what will it become. Which means really bad or really good reviews when game comes out, with no middle ground.

For example, personally, I would never look for the review from the early adopter when looking to buy any other new game, because I am aware of this bias. We do not represent regular game customers, but a niche.

Still, it should be on other consumers to see if those reviews should count or not.

But I guess it is always the call of the store, in this case Steam, how they want to present the products they sell.

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Reply #2 from StarControl Forums Top

I also dislike Valve's decision to brand those users on Steam but I can understand it. I just wished they would have done it differently. Maybe, like, automatically marking a user as a free recipient and forcing them to explain it but still counting the review.

Because this happens a lot. Even with the most simple example of: game crowdfunded => backers paid to get keys => backers get Steam keys for game => even though they paid in advance, Steam registers the keys as given away => Steam thinks user got key for free.

But to get them to change their policy will require big industry leanback and I don't really think Stardock has that power on their own.

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Reply #3 from StarControl Forums Top

Does this not have everything to do with money? I had assumed that if we purchased outside of Steam, Steam doesn't get paid, so won't count our review. Is that not right?

I thought that's why developers sell the game on their website, instead of on Steam, as well. Because they get the whole profit if it sells on their site, but Steam takes 30% if sold directly through Steam.

Reply #4 from StarControl Forums Top

Quoting cuorebrave, reply 3

Does this not have everything to do with money? I had assumed that if we purchased outside of Steam, Steam doesn't get paid, so won't count our review. Is that not right?

Originally reviews from people who obtained the game via key were counted. It was changed because some companies were giving away keys in exchange for a positive review.

Reply #5 from StarControl Forums Top

So what are the solutions? I was actually thinking about it last night. 

Can (the game developer) create 2 different executable's~

Interesting idea maybe this would work this way?  A few highlights that may work...

  • Give away a free Alpha/Beta key (no review). [Can play up to a week after release]
  • Founders get a unique Steam coupon for 99% off upon release, therefore paying for the game, DLC's are still free, Expansions also get unique coupon.  (Down side I don't know if you could create thousands of unique coupons that can each be redeemed 1x or, if they would still count towards reviews.)

Alternative Ideas:

Work with Steam, for founders provide a list of founders who purchased the game.  Maybe this is how it would work...

  • Unfortunately share some of the direct sales with Steam, say 5%-10%.  (This may cause the cost to go up for the Founders program.)
  • These People would count then as purchasing the game and therefore reviews would count...  

Eliminate the Founders program as it stands and only offer it through Steam directly.

  • Fans could purchase the Founders program well a head of time through Steam for 30% more therefore purchasing it direct.
  • Reviews would count as they purchased the game (including all DLC's and Expansions.)
  • Would require working with Steam yet to get this to work, maybe have to enter a special store through a link from Stardock, so that way it's not seen by the general public that may have no "real" interest in it.

Pull out of Steam all together.

  • Now this may not be a good idea as Steam itself generates some revenue, however, look at alternatives that would be a better fit.
  • Start a new platform again to sell games (Impulse) downside once again a lot of overhead maintaining platform plus may have had a no compete clause in the sale years back to GameStop.
  • Look at dare I say Origin to see if they would be a better fit, even though a lot of us would hate to have them go this way.

Sell Founders Program at an extreme discount say $25.

  • Founders still get access to beta's but, not full game, instead they get a coupon for a discount towards the game. (only applies to base price of game not future prices.)
  • Founders get free DLC's
  • Founders purchase expansions again with discounted coupons. (only applies to base price not future discounted prices.)
  • Estimated value of customers out of pocket expense to be between $100-$130 depending on number of expansions.
  • Positive Founder doesn't need to purchase all expansions to still be a "founder" as life happens but, to get full value they would.

Lastly if founders reviews already don't count as they are given keys even at release than this is a mute point at this point and we all should get betas right now :).  Otherwise provide a downloaded beta through a shared site that founders would have access to.  Of course we wouldn't be able to use any files that requires Steam but, this may be another option.

Anyways those are my ideas.

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Reply #6 from StarControl Forums Top

Quoting cuorebrave, reply 3

Does this not have everything to do with money? I had assumed that if we purchased outside of Steam, Steam doesn't get paid, so won't count our review. Is that not right?

Its not really about steam not getting paid thats the issue. Its an issue where unscrupulous devs were doling out keys for free to fake accounts that astro-turfed the review system. Since devs can generate infinite keys, they were giving keys out, then having fake positive reviews. This skewed the reviews for games. This made them appear in the main steam rotations and recommendations because they would be 'highly recommended'.


I thought that's why developers sell the game on their website, instead of on Steam, as well. Because they get the whole profit if it sells on their site, but Steam takes 30% if sold directly through Steam.

Well yes you get more money by doing so, but obviously then you have the issue where exposure of you game is low. Most devs will tell you that most of their sales come from steam. 

Reply #7 from StarControl Forums Top

Quoting Seilore, reply 5
So what are the solutions? I was actually thinking about it last night. Can the game developer create 2 different executable's

The # of executables isn't really relevant. Steam only counts reviews that are purchased directly from the store. Steam also only launches games it authorizes due to an exploit where steam would execute any arbitrary exe if you passed it via the steam protocol


    • Founders get a unique Steam coupon for 99% off upon release, therefore paying for the game, DLC's are still free, Expansions also get unique coupon.  (Down side I don't know if you could create thousands of unique coupons that can each be redeemed 1x or, if they would still count towards reviews.)

I'm not sure if Steam will allow this. Note that the entire point of why steam reviews were changed is due to fradulent reviews. If Stardock can do such a thing, then so can the same bad fradulent developers that caused this in the first place. Its not likely Steam will allow this since then every other dev is going to say "why can't I do that too"



Work with Steam, for founders provide a list of founders who purchased the game.  Maybe this is how it would work...

Fundamentally problematic for the same reasons as stated above. The fradulent developers could request the same access.

 

Eliminate the Founders program as it stands and only offer it through Steam directly.


That would be suicide. The last time Stardock did that with GalCiv3 it was a TOTAL AND UTTER DISASTER on the Steam forums. You weren't there. It was a fucking cluster shit fest of stupidity. Every idiot that hates Early Access came screaming on the forums. It basically attracted every troll imaginable. Every moron that hated Early Access for any reason spammed the forums for weeks. "$100 this is a rip off!! SCAM!!" You couldn't keep up with how stupid people were getting. No matter how many posts IslandDog or Frogboy put up, the dedicated Early Access haters would have none of it. Stardock was scamming you and you were sheeple for buying it and we are here to protect you from  your own stupidity and we will spam the forums until you understand.

 http://steamcommunity.com/app/226860/discussions/1/558751812932368701/#c558751812933575121

B00tsy full time job apparently is to go into EVERY SINGLE GAME HUB and scream at developers how much he hates Early Access.

http://steamcommunity.com/app/226860/discussions/1/558751812932368701/#c558751812981281308

And that's just a tiny sampling of the sheer stupidity of Steam users

Launching another founders program would be another 3 months of these idiots screaming on the forums and spamming you about how you're an idiot for buying it and how stardock should be shot into the sun for ripping off customers.

Pull out of Steam all together.

Not really seeing how this is practical financially. I believe Brad will corroborate that upwards of 90% of all sales come from Steam or at least somewhere in that range +/- . Aka its a very very large amount and given how expensive the game is, its the most expensive to date, and GalCiv3 cost around $3million if you read between the lines on the newsletter, ignoring steam would probably bankrupt the company.

 

 

Reply #8 from StarControl Forums Top

Quoting satoru1, reply 7

Eliminate the Founders program as it stands and only offer it through Steam directly.

That would be suicide. The last time Stardock did that with GalCiv3 it was a TOTAL AND UTTER DISASTER on the Steam forums. You weren't there. It was a fucking cluster shit fest of stupidity. Every idiot that hates Early Access came screaming on the forums.

I was there, that's why with this point I mentioned a hidden page that one would get to from here ect...  Please read my points before trying to argue my points.  Thank you.  

An additional note to this though it appears those "founders" who purchased through steam also don't have their reviews count for DLC's or Expansions but, I don't know this directly as I don't know anyone who purchased their founders package through Steam versus Stardock's website.  If that's the case then it's broken as Steam should be able to tell that they "purchased" the game versus getting it for free?

Quoting satoru1, reply 7

Pull out of Steam all together.
Not really seeing how this is practical financially. I believe Brad will corroborate that upwards of 90% of all sales come from Steam or at least somewhere in that range +/- . Aka its a very very large amount and given how expensive the game is, its the most expensive to date, and GalCiv3 cost around $3million if you read between the lines on the newsletter, ignoring steam would probably bankrupt the company.

Therefore reading my points below this option agrees with your points so what is it that you're arguing exactly?  Not to mention there are alternatives to Steam on the market which you did not mention in your post...