not necessarily the most reliable sources... .

https://techreport.com/news/31545/ryzen-availability-check-eight-cores-and-nowhere-to-put-em

http://wccftech.com/ryzen-am4-motherboards-supply-shortage/

I don't know that any source is 100% reliable on the matter, given there could be an Intel bias in some reports, and an AMD bias in others.  However, I have been reading here and there that AM4 motherboards have been available here in Australia as of Feb 24, with some stores listing them as being in stock.

It won't matter too much to me at this time, though, being I have other priorities that will push a Ryzen build back until later in the year... possibly September/October.  By then there'll be more information out there and I will have a better idea of which version and motherboard would best suit me.

Agree wholeheartedly!  Wait and see what shaking the trees reveals.

So long as it's a Ryzen falling from the tree and not an Intel i7 6950X I can't afford, I'll be happy.  Yeah, I can get the entire core of a Ryzen based machine - Motherboard, CPU and RAM - for less than what an i7 6950X alone would cost, so obviously I'd go with a Ryzen based machine when the time comes.  Even if the 6950X is a bit faster, it's a matter of economics and affordability, really ...

That is unless a 'tightrope-walking' rich uncle with chronic vertigo suddenly has an accident and leaves me a not so small sum of money.

Or if a claustrophobic rich aunt doesn't come out and gets stuck in the closet.

send me one of those if you have a spare

that said.. i don't need a new machine ... so chances are i'll miss the whole ryzen thing.. hell, chances are i'll miss the whole 10nm thing too

(i was saying the articles i read aren't necessarily most accurate... but they suggest ryzen are selling like hotcakes. amd was prepared but the motherboard people less so.)

No, none of them spare... but I do have a nymphomaniac cousin who owns her own mobile home [read mattress in the back of a van] and currently is a discharged bankrupt so isn't in any major debt.

That's the thing, tech articles at times can be biased, incorrect and even missing important information, which is why they're not necessarily the best places when looking for purchasing ideas.  That's why I take most with a grain of salt while turning to a couple of techies I know and word of mouth from actual users.

As for Ryzen selling like hotcakes, well that's good for the market and consumers in general.  Now I don't know about elsewhere, regarding AM4 motherboards, but there seems to be plenty available here in Australia, with ASUS, MSI and Gigabyte all releasing their range of Ryzen ready motherboards in late February.

Having said that tech articles can be biased, etc, I am excited by what I'm reading about Ryzen thus far.  Yes, there has been a couple of artices saying that Ryzen is still miles behind Intel's i7 6900K and 6950X, but for the most part I'm reading rather positive reviews about Ryzen and feel AMD is on a winner with its Zen architecture.

It would be reasonable to think if they are in Australia they are probably available in the united states to.

One would think so.  I checked with a few online retailers here in Australia and all say they have AM4 motherboards in stock, and being that some of those online sellers have bricks n' mortar stores as well, one could pretty much walk in off the street and purchase one from a local PC store.

 

More on the AMD forward push to challenge Intel and capture a greater market share.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/11183/amd-prepares-32-core-naples-cpus-for-1p-and-2p-servers-coming-in-q2

Naples is the next step in AMD's range of CPUs, but these chips are not for the regular user.  No, these CPUs are enormous and.... well, read the article to get an idea of why Naples is the next big thing in computer tech.... why these monsters are well out of the range of regular users like us.

Having said that, however, I can imagine Frogboy wanting to dabble with one of these enterprise class machines, and maybe hook Wincustomize up to it.

Put it this way, I started salivating as I read through the article, and I have absolutely no hope of ever owning such a beast.  But ooooooh, wouldn't it be nice.

Technical difficulties right on the start ?

Many Users report performance degradation in some applications aswell as games.
The cause seems to be the CPU´s thread scheduling, which is in simple terms a task telling the CPU on how to process tasks distributed to its cores.
This isn't necessary a physical problem rather more a software based one.
Since the CPU is relatively new and brings a different architecture with it, it may take some time for the developers to adjust the software in order to make Ryzen run equally performant as an Intel at this point.

While some users have reported issues with certain applications and games, some reviewers and others have given the new architecture the thumbs up... with various benchmarks and tests producing good results.  As you say, though, it is a new architecture and 'teething' problems will arise until AMD and other developers are on the same page software-wise. 

Having read so many articles on Ryzen and compatible AM4 motherboards, I don't remember where now, but I recall seeing somewhere that AMD is aware of certain issues and has revision 1.1 of Ryzen's firmware/software ready [or almost ready] for release. The article suggested that users keep checking with the AMD website for further updates and information regarding fixes.

On another note, I did read a review on ASUS'  ROG Crosshair VI Hero motherboard, the mobo I'm considering for when I can build, and I'm suitably impressed thus far.  However, that build is some way off and I'll have time to compare and assess it and other boards.  Another board that interests me is Gigabyte's GA-AX370 Gaming K7, so I'll keep an eye on both for future reference.... though the Crosshair VI Hero is my preference at this point

I switched from ASUS to Gigabyte about 5 years ago, both do have quality products.

PS: Did not write the last comment to bash on Ryzen, only to inform people about the issue, an issue that hopefully will be fixed asap.

Yeah, I started with Gigabyte [mobos, GPUs] for my AMD machines, but went with ASUS when I bought myself an Intel i7 4970K.  However, I'd be happy with either brand with either chipset. Thing is, while I like the features and look of the ASUS ROG Crosshair Hero VI board [I already have and like the ASUS ROG Crosshair Hero V in my AMD FX8350 rig] I am also liking some of the features of the Gigabyte board as well.  Thing is, I/we need to move to a larger residence, and that takes priority over a new build, so it will give me more time to research while I again save for the components I'll eventually go with.

No, I didn't think you were "bashing on Ryzen".  People who are bashing something are usually more aggressive and have alot more negative things to say, so I took it on face value and saw that you were trying to help.  And yes, I hope that the Ryzen issues are resolved quickly so that users can get down to enjoying the full benefit of their new toys.

I have been hearing/reading about people who say AMD should not have released Ryzen until these issues were resolved, but as I said to one person, factory conditions are not always ideal for testing products intended for the real world, and that Ryzen needed to be out there [in the real world] [with multiple users using different software and hardware configurations] for some of these issues to reveal themselves.  So no, I don't agree that AMD should have delayed the release.

 

Just found this article....

AMD has released a tips sheet for best performance [gaming and otherwise] with AMD's Ryzen 7 processors.

Well they, not amg, but computer experts advise, that unless you just want to be new kids on the block you should wait for a year after a new technology comes out for them to get out the bugs to buy something.

I don't know who these 'experts' are, but waiting a year just isn't practical in some instances... or even possible... when looking at how Win 10 was forced down peoples throats.

As for Ryzen, the hardware is sound and the new architecture solid, it's just that revisions to the firmware/software are required to remedy unforeseen issues that were not evident in factory testing.

Thing is, I will be waiting close to a year before I [can] build a Ryzen based machine, though not because I doubt the technology, but rather that I have other priorities to consider.

well.. ms just did something silly... it won't auto-scan for update on new cpus... with the older os..

http://www.ghacks.net/2017/03/17/microsoft-blocks-updates-for-new-cpus-on-windows-7-and-8-1/

 

This is more of Microsoft trying to force Windows 10 down users [who clearly don't want it] throats.  This crap that older OSes 'will not' support new CPUs didn't happen when MS released XP; Vista; Windows 7 or Windows 8/8.1, so why is it suddenly so now that Windows 10 is here?  MS can try to claim security reasons but that's total bullshit and most people know it.

Hopefully AMD and Intel tell MS to go fech 'emselves and release support software for their latest CPUs for all OSes. For mine, it's the sensible and right thing to do, to provide 7th generation [and later] support to users of Win 7 and 8/8.1, thus broadening market scope for CPU and related hardware manufacturers. 

Surely there's got to be a law somewhere that prohibits one company, in this case, Microsoft, from artificially and unnecessarily inhibiting the potential sales of others: in this case; MS' partners AMD and Intel, and, subsequently, the motherboard manufacturers, etc.  Furthermore, Microsoft's stance on this reduces choice for paying customers who purchased Windows 7 and 8/8.1.  Antitrust anyone?

It was my plan to build a Ryzen 7 1800x machine based on Windows 8.1 [cos there is no way on Earth I'll pay good money for a copy of Win 10] but MS has put the karbosh on that...unless AMD tells MS to go fech 'emselves.  Sadly, I don't see AMD standing up to MS like that, nor anyone else for that matter [except for disgruntled users perhaps], meaning that nothing will change any time soon... if ever.

Microsoft wants to safe up on long term support for those older operating systems.
It is easier to fully support and concentrate on "A" OS than multiple.
For those still running elder hardware using windows 7 there is no need for that kind of support, since the hardware did not change and unless you build up a computer by yourself there wont be any issues (you just have to think about buying or upgrading to windows10), if you buy one you will get the windows10 starter/home package included with it anyways.

@starkers why would you want to have windows8.1 instead of windows10? What are the benefits?
You can still upgrade your windows8.1 to windows10 all you have to do is call the support line
Its still free. Both pretty much look the same.

 

Windows 8.1 is in mainstream support, not extended support like Win 7. Why on earth would Microsoft block updates for an OS that is in its prime (rhetorical question)? It's the latest stable OS from Microsoft. Blocking updates? Isn't that a security vulnerability?

So Linux will have better Ryzen support than Windows 8.1 and 7. Microsoft is their own worst enemy.

The harder Microsoft try to push Windows 10, the more it feels like a no go zone. Windows 10 might work, but Microsoft is the most depressing company I can think of right now. You can't trust anything they say.

Chrome OS has zero privacy, but despite that Google seems like a more straight-forward company I think. Less excuses and dumb explanations. Not that I want to advocate Google, but Microsoft is doing it wrong.

Do not see what MS is doing wrong, they were open about a lot more things than ever on windows10, in close Insider Program, surveys directed to everyone, customer feedback on several social media sites , insider forum on reddit...
Just put yourself into the situation, imagine you have to upkeep windows 7 windows 8/8.1 and then windows10.

Here is a statistic from Netmarketshare:

Desktop Operating System Market Share February, 2017 Operating System Total Market Share Windows 7 48.41% Windows 10 25.19% Windows XP 8.45% Windows 8.1 6.87% Mac OS X 10.12 2.91% Linux 2.05% Windows 8 1.65% Mac OS X 10.11 1.55% Mac OS X 10.10 1.00% Windows Vista 0.78% Windows NT 0.39% Mac OS X 10.9 0.35% Mac OS X 10.6 0.14% Mac OS X 10.8 0.11% Mac OS X 10.7 0.11% Mac OS X 10.5 0.02% Windows 2000 0.01% Windows 98 0.01% Macintosh 0.00% Mac OS X 10.4 0.00% Windows 3.1 0.00% Mac OS X (no version reported) 0.00%

Source: https://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10&qpcustomd=0 

This should answer it all. If you add the percentage of windows7, 8 and 8.1 split them through the whole cake and then multiply into the several pieces, it quickly shows how marginal, the user number of the 8 series actually is.
Trend for Windows10 user base can also be viewed on the page.
Personally i dont mind that Windows8/8.1 is currently not on the list to support those new CPU´s, while on the other hand end of support for windows 8 is 9. Januar 2018.
So i guess they will eventually support it anyways, if enough people write angry posts about it on social media / forums.

https://support.microsoft.com/de-de/help/13853/windows-lifecycle-fact-sheet source: 

Client operating systems	Update or Service Pack	Flow of basic support	Expiration of extended support
Windows XP	Service Pack 3	14. April 2009	8. April 2014
Windows Vista	Service Pack 2	10. April 2012	11. April 2017
Windows 7*	Service Pack 1	13. Januar 2015	14. Januar 2020
Windows 8	Windows 8.1	9. Januar 2018	10. Januar 2023
Windows 10, veröffentlicht im Juli 2015**	N/V	13. Oktober 2020	14. Oktober 2025

Sorry if there is spelling errors...
My last thoughts:
Well you should use the upgrade anyway, that just my personal opinion.

What are you, an official spokesperson for Microsoft?  No one at all serious can call what they've pulled since releasing 10 anything but underhanded.  They hid nagware, advertisements, and even full blown operating system upgrades as critical security updates.

 

I still have three years of security updates left on Windows 7 that I wont be using because they turned the update system into a trojan horse.  I had to spend a considerable amount of time countering and fixing their intentional screwups aimed at removing me from an operating system I bought and paid for.

 

You might could get away with saying we "should" upgrade, but plenty of people are running legacy software that simply doesn't work in the newest operating system.  I've got loads of shit I can't even run on 7, I still use 98SE and XP on occasion to play something really fuckin old.  Older operating systems are a necessity for many, it doesn't change just because you don't mind being forced to upgrade to 10 whether you want to or not.

 

With 8.1 none of that even matters, it's still supported, period.  Any bullshit they pull in opposition to that doesn't get a pass because it's easier to update one version.  If they want to get away with that crap, they should stop selling us operating systems that come with 10-15 year support cycles and tell us up front that they plan on bricking it when they release a new one.  People that bought 8 are owed those updates, they paid for them, not the version on the disk.

Im not.
1. With nagware do you mean the prompts to upgrade to windows10? There were hundrets of tutorials on how to turn them off online. There was even a guide on how to do so directly on the MS support page and still is.
If you are talking about telemetry then there is also guides and tools you can find. For 10 there was a Insider preview and an open customer preview before RTM.
2. If you run legacy software run it in a virtual box/machine and they will work problem solved.
3. In technical terms your windows 7 runs on extended support as you can see above, basic support ended quite some time ago.
4. When was the last time you bought software that did receive updates for over a period of 5 years?
Bought Photoshop some time ago yet after some time and a new version i did not get any new tools yet the newer version had them.
5. If you bought windows 8 at release you did not even pay 50 bucks for it, yet you had and still have, the opportunity to upgrade even if you only own a windows8 disk.
6. If you run old hardware then the whole point of the new CPU targeted updates does not affect you at all. 
I can understand the frustration but MS cant be held accountable for this unless we are looking at the life cycle of support on windows8/.1.
The only thing that is weird here is that they intend to stop all support.
The CPU "driver" updates are normally a thing that you will see once or twice in the lifetime of your system. These almost never ever happen.
They use the situation to get people to jump onto windows 10 for reasons nobody knows.(most likely telemetry data collection/ Ms store / and to increase Windows10 numbers, to push Windows 10 even further to get more out of it.
If you want to call that BS on that, that is ok, but it is still a smart move, users of next gen /current gen CPU´s do/will get the most performance out of windows 10 as i mentioned before.

 

My problem with Windows 10 is not only related to the OS. It's related to Microsoft and can be easily explained:

Lack of trust. (And not wanting to be in a abusive relationship).

Microsoft has always been criticized. During the XP era it was mostly about money. MS was seen a greedy corporation with too much power (monopoly). There was even talk about breaking up Microsoft into smaller parts. A monopoly is a bad thing, but as long as the government keeps it in check, there can be a semblance of balance.

Microsoft during the Windows 10 era is a different beast. Money isn't prime motivator. They have made so many unpopular decisions that would never have been made if the company was focused on money.

I would say Microsoft went from a capitalist corporation to a tool for dark forces. These dark forces can be described as governments of the Western world. Notice that not a single government has raised concerns over privacy in Windows 10 (or Android for that matter).

The global surveillance state is here. Android, Chrome OS and Windows 10 are cornerstones. Not even Linux is spared and very questionable technologies have been introduced (actually forced on users).

The powers that be have spy capabilities that Stasi in East Germany could only dream of. It's not about targeted surveillance, it's about bulk surveillance.

For now it might be a fun "game" for intelligence agencies. But when you have a detailed profile of every person on Earth and currency has become all digital, then it will be easy to wipe out "the useless".

The leading banker families (who own money machine Federal Reserve) don't believe in any freedom whatsoever. Microsoft's decision regarding Ryzen is just the latest in a long string of decisions showing that the company doesn't care about freedom. On the contrary they are actively blocking updates from reaching supported versions of their OSes.

If you see Microsoft as an isolated company making bad decisions, it's bad enough. If you see Microsoft as a tool deeply connected to leading bankers and governments then the picture becomes a lot scarier.

It will be interesting to see how the trump card plays out. But Microsoft needs to save themselves. They might have near monopoly, but that doesn't guarantee survival in a changing technological landscape. Microsoft will likely never lack money (because of powerful friends), but Microsoft might run out of steam without a thriving third party eco-system.

I think this world is in a downward spiral and it's sad. Super sad in fact.

I aleady own 3 copies of Windows 8.1, and having paid full price for two of them, I fully intend to use what I paid for.

As for still being able to 'upgrade' to Win 10 for free, even IF I wanted to, which I don't, that's not the information I have been given.  When a nephew tried to do it via the 'nag app' from the systray, it told him the offer no longer was available and to contact Microsoft, which we did.  After waiting 30 minutes for a 'real' person, a representative then repeated what the systray notice said: "That offer is no longer available.", and proceeded to try sell him a version for $268.... which is $300+ in AUD$. He doesn't have that sort of money so I convinced him to stick with 8.1 for as long as he could.

Besides, I don't like Windows 10 for several reasons.



Exactly!  MS betrayed the trust of millions of users and continues to behave in dishonest and underhanded ways... like using Scheduled Maintenance to forecefully download and install updates that users previously rejected and hid from future Windows Updates.

And then there's the advertisements on the default 10 start menu.  Microsoft calls them 'suggestions', but truth is, in anybody's language they're blatant advertisements.  I see enough advertising being thrust in my face just about everywhere I look, so the last thing I want is to see it thrust upon me by my operating system.  Yeah, they can be disabled/hidden, but that's not the point.  Simply put,I should NOT have to do that



Yes, Windows 8.1 is still supported, and what MS is doing here, by withholding security and other upates to 7th gen CPU owners, is blatant blackmail to try force unwilling 8.1 users to move to Win 10. .. I won't say upgrade because, to me, it's a downgrade in many respects.

With regard to MS releasing an OS with 10 - 15 year support cycle, then "bricking it" early, While I agree that it's patently wrong, I believe that is even more wrong that Windows 8.1 is still on sale. Last I looked it was still available in the Microsoft Store, but it is still up for sale on umpteen online stores and 'bricks 'n mortar' retailers.  If MS wants users to move to Win 10, then why haven't those copies/licenses been recalled?

For mine, Microsoft is the least trustworthy, most underhanded tech corporation there is.  Apple used to have that mantle, but MS has surpassed Apple in all departments of distrust and deserves NO customer respect whatsoever.



This just touches on the outer skin of it all.  Bankers have always been the slimiest mongrels on Earth, and they are certainly using the technology to consolidate their positions, but there are other 'agencies' [both government and corporate] seeking power and information to further their ambitions and aspirations.  What this means for the average Joe and his family, I can't say for sure, but history tells us that the accumulation of wealth, power and knowledge by the priveleged/upper echelon doesn't bode well for the every day bloke and his....

Frogboy wrote an interesting piece that asks this very question: Economic Singularity: The Gods and the Useless.

A few people gave their thought on this, myself included, but this move by MS to restrict updates to Win 10, an OS that's known for it's ability to control and collect data, contributes greatly to the haves imposing even greater power and controls over the have-nots...the ability to condition consumers toward 'desired' products and trends through targeted advertising.  Sadly, though, many consumers [the poor and disadvantaged] will no longer exist because the haves will see them as liabilities [read guaranteed incomes. employed or not] rather than consumers.  Yup, the almighty dollar will become far more important than human life... though so many of the haves and 'priveleged' already think this anyway.

Anyway, this has gotten far from the OT, as it often does, but I still hope that AMD tells MS to go fech itself and provides support to Win 7 and 8.1.  Even better, Ubuntu and Linux Mint forge ahead in leaps and bounds to truly rival Windows 10 and capture majority market share.

I won't hold my breath on either count, but hey, dreams are free... until MS finds a way to control those, too.