Diplomacy thread...

Added from the other thread as well from Syrkres:

Diplomacy questions? (didn't see a dedicated thread started yet)

• Alliances? as mentioned would be nice to provide more support? 
• Different types of alliances, trade alliance, military alliance, other?
• It would be nice to be able to assign minor factions to a default alliance (group), so we can make pseudo sub-nations. This is because when picking races at start of game you can't group minor-alliances. i.e. would be cool to have a pirate alliance built of minor factions. On that note have a dedicated group # for pirates so possible to add a faction to the priates
• Also when creating a faction give it a default group which if selected manually or randomly is set to that group (rather than no group). This should likely be a toggle feature (Keep default group) as some people may not want default grouping. Then factions like the Startrek and such can create federations, without having assign them each time.
• Another nice feature this would provide, is say I say select random factions, 10 from group x, and 10 from group y, without having to manually pick them and/or assign them.

It's pretty simple really.Play EU4 and copy diplomacy mechanics.

+1 agree with all points above.

The research/economic/culture treaties should give the benefit to both parties. It is described this way in-game, but the xml code only applies to the receiving party of the treaty. 

For general diplomacy, something similar to the diplomacy missions from SINS would be nice. Offer drengin x credits to take out specifc starbases/planets. Would add some nice specific tactical options.

Maybe have a diplomatic resource, so-that you can use x of this resource to call your allies to defend your territory for 50 turns. This resource could play nicely with the citizen system, so  you dedicate citizens to produce more. You could use this resource to give missions as described in my previous point instead of credits, since credits are a bit easy to get.

As a side note and the Summer DLC for GCIII, we will have Pirates ARRRGGH, that you can hire via diplomacy to uh, 'convince' others that your way of doing things is the best way! 

Seriously, having or paying another faction to do 'ill' upon another would be nice. I remember back in GCII I would get a message from the Torians about how another power greater than me convinced the Torians I should be wiped out. Good times! 

Now with more Drengin-Grilled Torian Burgers! 

I would love to see the UP have an update too.

United Planets will meet in 1 turn.   Vote will be on X.

you have one turn to convince everyone to vote for you.. bribes, threats, trades..   and appropriate penalties for breaking trust...


It's really annoying that there is no way to even try to sway the vote...

I would LOVE to have a notification 5 turns prior to meeting that the UP is voting on XXX <<, This would be a RANDOM (NOT PLAYER CONTROLLED) UP resolution and  you can then go to each faction and bribe, sway, threaten, pay off, use extortion via spies or whatever to get that faction to vote (up or down) for your resolution (much like Civ V, had with the UN)

I think it would be cool to occasionally get "quests" (for lack of a better word) from friendly civs.  Something like:

-help us survey so and so black hole, or star that strange energy is emanating from.

-professor weirdo on planet x is building an energy collecting, people killing super weapon.  Please go try and negotiate or destroy said machine.

stuff like that.

Can we also get some visual UI update, that you can see on the list of powers who has which treaties. Coz it becomes a real chore to go through all the powers to check if open borders and non-aggression pacts are all still up. The same way we can see who is available to talk, add something to show who has which treaties still active. 

Or make it that the ai player will contact you on treaty lapse to renegotiate automatically.

Just wanted to chime in here, I'm taking notes.

The GalCiv team gets me until Crusade ships. Then I'm on Star Control until that ships.

Some ideas/requests:

1. Like In GC 2 Ultimate (IIRC) I'd like to be able to get other civs not only to make war vs., but also to make peace with someone else. Such a peace deal should hold for a min. time of turns (so that the aggressor can't attack again immediately), maybe depending on my influence/power etc. and/or the stuff I offered to get this deal

2. As posted in the 2.0 thread currently diplo red lines ("this civ is too owerful for us") are IMO too easy to get around. Dunno if those red lines are meant to act as "full stop" regardless of any offer on the table, but if I can get the AI too still attack that other, "too powerful" civ despite they are declaring a red line by offerering only one tech (even if it's an expensive/advanced one) this seems too easy

3. What about some form of disarmament/arms control agreements? Though I have not thought much of it, so it's just a wild idea.

4. A purely cosmetic thing: if I am surely winning a war and have the enemy at the verge of destruction reading on "very well" when agreeing to save the enemy and make peace feels kinda disappointing -- I'd expect some more gratitude

Why is it that almost always when I try to bribe a civ to declare war on another civ, it's grayed-out and says 'need a valid third party'...?  I've uncovered about 15 civs in my current game and every one of them is like this when I talk to them.

@Frogboy I liked your idea in stream last December about embassies being something you established with another Civ rather than just an improvement you build.  Have you fleshed this out any or had any other thoughts?

I think locking out trades until an embassy is established with the target civ would be neat, but too limiting.  A player would need more options for opening negotiations.

Ship to ship hailing to communicate and negotiate would be a neat and immersive alternative.  A ship could even haul around a trained diplomat to get a bonus in negotiations.

Could the diplomat be offloaded at another Civ's capital to open permanent channels as an alternative to building an embassy on the player's own turf?

Could ship to ship hails involve other conversations- threats, gossip (so and so built X), giving or exchange of information (locations of a resource or a planetary system), greetings, rude rejections ("Go away, we're busy")...  All of which devolve from and influence diplomatic standing.

Pirates could even do this, "Give us your cargo or we'll attack!"

Updating the UP is a big one. Would like to see more political interaction through it, and Brad's on stream comment on the UP being able to constrain snowballing players is something I would like to see. 

I would love to GalCiv to take some inspiration from Sins of Solar Empire with its pirate mechanic. Whether or not it works out well is another question, but would be cool if you could hire pirates to harass targets.

The UP Froum: One the lead up to a UP session, UP forums are held where deals and alliances can be brokered. Perhaps what can accompany this is a galactic news service on the state of the galaxy, economy and politics. Generally, politics I would like to see a lot more, especially where it can open up ways to wage political warfare and giving players ways to fight 'peacefully' without having to focus on war.

PS. I'm loving the ideas in this thread.

I for one, despise the pirates in sins.  Day one I turned them off and have never looked back.  I would like to see pirate inspiration from Distant Worlds though.

That I played a lot of TEC rebels should indicate a bias

You want the AI to make good decisions?

Good decisions require good information.

Does the AI get good information with which to base it's decisions?

No.  We all know that the military ranking system is broken.  It doesn't account for enough factors and misleads the AI into conflicts it loses.

Power rankings and the data that go into them need an overhaul BEFORE diplomacy coding that's based on them is rewritten/expanded.

Here's a thread off steam and explorminate I think has some relevant points for improving diplo or considering how the broader gameplay effects the diplo mechanics:

https://steamcommunity.com/app/226860/discussions/1/143388408894516262/

And:

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/explorminate/discussions/0/537405286635828795/?ctp=34

The quote from explorminate highlights the issue with the quick diplo victory.

I'd like to see more diplomatic options to grow my faction via minors.   Perhaps proper diplomacy would allow me to convince minors (or even very weak majors)  to join me willingly without the need for military conquest.  Clearly my reference is Star Trek and joining the Federation.  Some minors might be more attracted to the Drengin ways or the Torians. 

I'd like to have to ability to have many many more minors, with some form of bonus for having them in your empire and that bonus based upon how they came to be in your empire. For example. There might be a minor with a species that is tactically superior in three dimension thinking and planning.  Having them in your empire might provide small but fleet wide bonuses.  Or another minor might bring some special stealth ability.

Here is an idea: Different species my provide certain kinds of Citizenry bonuses. As an arbitrary game mechanic, if the base number to create a Citizen is 600 Citizen points. Then having various species in your empire might lower (or even raise) that number by a small amount.  Normal spy - 600 points, spy if species X is in the fold, 580, thus giving a small head start on the next Citizen.  

One peeve I have is that the AI gives away too much money.

The AI gives away too much money when the player is selling tech, yes, but it offers too little money when it's buying tech.  152bc for interstellar governance?  C'mon.

I want more things to negotiate over.  It feels too much like a marketplace than anything diplomatic.  We need to discuss other factions, where the pirates are, or the Dread Lords.  We should talk about who is in the lead in snarky tones.  We should plot against other factions with trade embargoes, deliberate price gouging, espionage sharing, etc.  

Definitely, active military cooperation and planning with one another needs to be available.  Falling into a snare of individual treaties with collective Galactic War implications should always be an easy danger.  The game has a military emphasis built in.  It needs military discussions to be an emphasis as well if the Diplomacy is going to seem relevant to what is going on.  You also need a foundation for the "gang up on the leader" principle.  For Malevolent factions, "gang up on the weak" needs to be available as well.  Though it will have serious Diplomatic repercussions.  A lot of the Diplomacy will favor Benevolent behavior, but that is the traditional nature of institutions like the UP, unless the Malevolent folk ramrod their way into power.  ;)

I want Ideology to get much more involved.  I have a thought of an events system called Diplomatic Opportunities.  You would get chances to do something based on relative Ideologies: agreeing to denounce opposing Ideologies, or increase the value of your own, permanent trade benefits, whatever.  Ideology should affect Diplomatic deals and be obviously documented as to how it is affecting those deals.  There should be opportunities to align more closely in Ideology.  One Diplomatic Opportunity would be a chance to do something like re-lock one Ideology perk that the other faction doesn't like and adopt one available perk of equal or lesser value in their Ideology.  You get whatever you bargained for it in the deal, and then you get a one time large Diplomacy bonus with that faction.  There could be some Diplomacy deals that have Ideology point results, Benevolent for aiding weak factions, Pragmatic for making loans to weak factions, Malevolent for demanding tribute, etc.

There should be a concept of Prevailing Ideology that is a measure of how many Ideology points you have put into any one choice versus the other two.  The tendency should be for Prevailing Ideology values to converge as a basis for alliances and trade groups.  This should help build game-long narratives.  You could even establish a Galactic Prevailing Ideology for the UP to adopt.

Whatever I do diplomatically, it should be documented in my Diplomacy window with that faction.  I should never be ignorant of anything I am negotiating or discussing.  That includes my own economy.

I hate bringing up mechanics from other games, but one of the few things I really enjoyed about Civ 5 was their Diplomatic proposal and vote system, with two competing proposals going on at once.  I got a lot of variation of results and decisions out of that.  It argues for the concept of knowing what the proposal is going to be for several turns before voting on it, and then implementing negotiating for votes.

The UP needs some teeth.  Not participating in the UP should be bad.  Defying the UP should be devastating.  Kicking someone out of the UP should be possible, but very difficult. Peacekeeper actions should be a possibility if some faction is beating up another, especially if you are building up a resistance alliance against a runaway faction.  Planetary influence radii should be affected by faction UP standings.  If you collapse a faction's influence circles for being a Pariah, they will lose a lot of asteroid mines.

I think that membership in the UP should be a one time decision with severe penalties for backing out.  Membership should have benefits.  I like 5% per era for Approval and Production, sort of a reverse Coercion.  Trade deals between members would have diplomacy discounts.  Trade deals between non members would be normal.  Trade deals between members and non members would come with price hikes for the non members.  That could become a source for political grouping as well.

But there should be an option for those who don't want the rules and restrictions of the UP, just not a pretty one.

Most of all, I need a Diplomacy screen that efficiently deals with 100 factions.  I don't do all that many factions these days.  But when I have tried >20, I can no longer keep them straight. I should have icons, leader names, faction names, whatever, easily visible so I can keep them straight.  I should at least be able to sort them in alphabetical order, for goodness sake.  And that should be true for the faction selection list at the start of the game, while I am ranting on the subject.  I have >150 subscribed factions from the Workshop.  You don't even sort out the stock factions to select, let alone put my favorite custom faction in a convenient place.  I truly do not understand that particular inconvenient oversight.  It is even worse trying to deal with the faction list in MP settings.  So please, look at things as supporting those 100 factions in a Diplomacy screen and I might have the tools to start keeping track of 20.  Otherwise, I just can't deal with it and cannot play the game to the levels you suggest according to map size.

Sorry if this got a little long, but you did ask.  :)

Make gunboat diplomacy a thing.

If I shift some of my warships within sight of another faction's planets and/or starbases, it should do a lot more than a simple negative impact on relations. The diplomatic effect should be dependent on context.

Examples:

I may be doing this to get something from the other side, in a 'Nice planet, shame if something happened to it. Oh by the way...' sense. Like for a favorable trade, '...let me make you an offer you can't refuse'. Or an upcoming U.P. vote, '...don't you think it's only reasonable to vote so-and-so way?' Stuff like that. Reactions should depend on the threatened faction's relative strength to you own, ranging from 'of course sir, what do you need?' to 'move your ships away, or we'll move them for you'. Or if they're really annoyed or hostile to begin with, even "SILENCE! I KEEL YOU!", and whoops, now you're in a war.

Friendly or allied factions should be mildly annoyed at most, and perhaps even miss the implications altogether. Something like 'your ships are making us all nervous, what's up with that?', or even 'oi, file a flight plan next time, ya berk'. And if said ally or friendly happens to be in a shooting war with someone else, parking your own ships near the allied/friendly planets could even net you a positive diplomatic effect. Like 'hey thanks for showing you'll help to protect our planets, we're all grateful for that'.

Really nice discussion.

So to sum it up, I feel that the first necessary steps are:

• fixing the alliance mechanics (and thus making diplomatic focus "my big friends protect me" workable)
• fixing the treaties, or at least their description

I, for myself, would like to be able to set the duration of pacts and treaties, currently fixed to 50 turns. Why not use choice of e.g. 10 turns, 20 turns, 50 turns, indefinite?

Plus the AI valuing accordingly. Having to renew that NA pact every 50 turns with my best friend feels really tedious.

j

I would love the following changes to diplomacy:

1) Eliminate feedback from the AI before officially offering a deal.  Once you submit the deal, they either accept it, counter-propose, or tell you to go to hell.  No more canned responses that give you a formula to either add more stuff or remove stuff.  Depending on your relations with them will determine how favorable the trade terms are and how many rounds of negotiation they will tolerate before telling you to go to hell.  If they tell you to go to hell, you are locked out of trading with them for a certain number of turns.  Technology or espionage could be used to provide more information in the diplomacy screen, or additional options to intimidate, trick or charm other civs.

2) Create a single "diplomacy" screen with sections for all of the other known Civs so you can work deals with all of them at the same time.  There is very little actual info on the diplomacy screen so it should be possible to fit multiple on the screen at the same time.  Show the rankings for military, technology, influence, etc in each window.

3) Tell us who the "infidel" is that we are trading with who is providing a negative impact to diplomacy. . . this drives me nuts!